What coilovers are all about

[Gary G]

Well spent a few hours this evening playing around with the dampner setting on my GAZ coilovers....here are my findings so far

Softest settings all round= funny soft bouncy ride! Body roll but good grip, less positive steering.

Hardest at rear softest at front= odd felling, i imagine thats what a cut n shut would feel like lol. Front had good grip but once that turned into understeer, oversteer swiftly followed.

Hardest all round= sweet.

well obviously very scientific lol. Not very conclusive and there are loads of variables (will continue testing tomorrow) but i think for my car i need to dial out some of the understeer which i think can be achieved by softening the front a little and leaving rear hard

Does anyone actually have any idea or links to information regarding proper set up and the affect each change/combination can cause.

All in all good fun.....need some more fuel now lol

 

[BenR]

lol, good job, your moving along the right lines.

THe only problem i foresee is that damping control on the units isnt great, so the hardest setting is working best at the moment because the spring rate is too high and the damping control isnt correctly matched to vehicle weight and roll pitch.

Id probably try going softer on the springs and running the dampers softer.....actually giving the suspension a chance to do something.

 

[Gary G]

cheers dude Will try to actually understand what youve said tomorrow when im more with it lol.

I havent even taken spring rate into account :-S lol. Fronts are 225lbs and rears are 250lbs...any chance you could explain what that means Ben? cheers mate

 

[White16valver]

Theyre quite high poundages arent they?

I think the 225lbs means that it takes 225lbs of weight/force to compress it one inch...

 

[BenR]

correct, that amount of force it takes to compress 1" and each subsequent inch thereof.

225 and 250 is EXTREEMLY hard, i would be running around 190-200 for the road!!!

Its no wonder they, as Loony so elequently put i, turned the car into a pogo stick on wheels.

Chassis setup takes time to do properly.

 

[edde]

Ben is the sam true for the Williams? Iv been in a rally Williams with 200lb spring and that was a joke on the bumpy back roads however my Williams has 200lb springs on coilovers and its nowhere like that bad infact it quite acceptable.
Since the Williams is track day only realy and I belive one damper (gaz adjustabe ones ones) is leaking I was thinking of swopping it for some better stuff and maybe higher rate springs. Do you have any recomendations? What about this Cup racer stuff the race cars used to use it has Renault part numbers I believe (in order to comply with the rules) but Ive no idea of them.

 

[BenR]

Spring rates affect different cars in different ways, because what you are affecting is actually the wheel rate (different to spring rate due to different pickup points between vehicles, which gives different moments and pivots).

So no it doesnt apply to the Williams.

However, 200lbs springs on a williams should feel the same, unless the bump/rebound damping rates are different. Different damper types and manufacturers will also effect the feel.

The cup racer stuff is good yes, it gets rid of any adjustability which i feel is a waste of time when you give it to people who dont have a clue what it is changing. Best to just give them a car that handles well, otherwise they would be quite fine buying a high/low speed bump/rebound adj damper and play with their own spring rates.

My reccomendations personally are almost always going to be leda, not that expensive and really THAT good.

 

[Gary G]

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 02 August 2005


Spring rates affect different cars in different ways, because what you are affecting is actually the wheel rate (different to spring rate due to different pickup points between vehicles, which gives different moments and pivots).

So no it doesnt apply to the Williams.

However, 200lbs springs on a williams should feel the same, unless the bump/rebound damping rates are different. Different damper types and manufacturers will also effect the feel.

The cup racer stuff is good yes, it gets rid of any adjustability which i feel is a waste of time when you give it to people who dont have a clue what it is changing. Best to just give them a car that handles well, otherwise they would be quite fine buying a high/low speed bump/rebound adj damper and play with their own spring rates.

My reccomendations personally are almost always going to be leda, not that expensive and really THAT good.

lol.



...Is it possible to get GAZ to send out different springs in exchange for the mega stiff ones?

 

[Sport182]

Keep up the good work mate. Once you got it right let me know

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by Gary G on 02 August 2005

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 02 August 2005


Spring rates affect different cars in different ways, because what you are affecting is actually the wheel rate (different to spring rate due to different pickup points between vehicles, which gives different moments and pivots).

So no it doesnt apply to the Williams.

However, 200lbs springs on a williams should feel the same, unless the bump/rebound damping rates are different. Different damper types and manufacturers will also effect the feel.

The cup racer stuff is good yes, it gets rid of any adjustability which i feel is a waste of time when you give it to people who dont have a clue what it is changing. Best to just give them a car that handles well, otherwise they would be quite fine buying a high/low speed bump/rebound adj damper and play with their own spring rates.

My reccomendations personally are almost always going to be leda, not that expensive and really THAT good.

lol.



...Is it possible to get GAZ to send out different springs in exchange for the mega stiff ones?

i dont think gaz will change them, maybe....i know leda does until your happy.

but they arent too expensive.

 

[Gary G]

Cheers mate, i may well get onto GAZ about lower rate springs and also to see if they can sort new rubber mounts for the rear as they are making a bit of noise. Did they do any R&D/testing when producing them?

Wonder what rate springs the H&R units come with?

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 02 August 2005
Spring rates affect different cars in different ways, because what you are affecting is actually the wheel rate (different to spring rate due to different pickup points between vehicles, which gives different moments and pivots). <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #407db6">So no it doesnt apply to the Williams. <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #407db6">However, 200lbs springs on a williams should feel the same, unless the bump/rebound damping rates are different. Different damper types and manufacturers will also effect the feel. <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #407db6">The cup racer stuff is good yes, it gets rid of any adjustability which i feel is a waste of time when you give it to people who dont have a clue what it is changing. Best to just give them a car that handles well, otherwise they would be quite fine buying a high/low speed bump/rebound adj damper and play with their own spring rates. <FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #407db6">My reccomendations personally are almost always going to be leda, not that expensive and really THAT good.

The 200lb springs on the rally car made it litrally bounch all the way down the back roads my cas nothing like that. Ive found some Leda front coilover dampers (no springs) for £300 is that a good price? There adjustable although as you said Im not 100% sure its the best for an unknowledgable person ie me.
The springs on mine re 200lb 9 inch ones so I take it after they re fully compressed (Id say there 4 inches travel ie 800lb weight) is applied then the dont do anything there like a solid bock? Im sure on the track they must be under 800lb at the front under hard breaking so isn the chassic being placed under excsive load as theres no give?

 

[Clarkie172]

ive got gaz on mine and was told they are set on the softest setting (apparently) it handles mint but the ride is shockingly hard and bumpy!

 

[Gary G]

Probably down to the spring rate Clarkie, have a butchers at the springs to see if they still have the stickers on saying the poundage...i can see mine through the wheel

 

[Andy GDI]

they usually change them if your not happy, we had a few sorted this way..

best is to call them direct and speak to dave...

Andy

 

[Gary G]

Will do Andy What rates are other people running...do you remember? Not particularly unhappy...just want to get the best from my car really

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by Gary G on 02 August 2005


Cheers mate, i may well get onto GAZ about lower rate springs and also to see if they can sort new rubber mounts for the rear as they are making a bit of noise. Did they do any R&D/testing when producing them?

Wonder what rate springs the H&R units come with?

no idea on their testing

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by edde on 02 August 2005

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 02 August 2005


Spring rates affect different cars in different ways, because what you are affecting is actually the wheel rate (different to spring rate due to different pickup points between vehicles, which gives different moments and pivots).

<FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #407db6">So no it doesnt apply to the Williams.

<FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #407db6">However, 200lbs springs on a williams should feel the same, unless the bump/rebound damping rates are different. Different damper types and manufacturers will also effect the feel.

<FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #407db6">The cup racer stuff is good yes, it gets rid of any adjustability which i feel is a waste of time when you give it to people who dont have a clue what it is changing. Best to just give them a car that handles well, otherwise they would be quite fine buying a high/low speed bump/rebound adj damper and play with their own spring rates.

<FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #407db6">My reccomendations personally are almost always going to be leda, not that expensive and really THAT good.

The 200lb springs on the rally car made it litrally bounch all the way down the back roads my cas nothing like that. Ive found some Leda front coilover dampers (no springs) for £300 is that a good price? There adjustable although as you said Im not 100% sure its the best for an unknowledgable person ie me.
The springs on mine re 200lb 9 inch ones so I take it after they re fully compressed (Id say there 4 inches travel ie 800lb weight) is applied then the dont do anything there like a solid bock? Im sure on the track they must be under 800lb at the front under hard breaking so isn the chassic being placed under excsive load as theres no give?

Your car wont be coil binding the springs under braking.

Like i said previously, its wheel rate which dictates stiffness not spring rate, thats only part of the equation.

 

[benji&eka]

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 01 August 2005


lol, good job, your moving along the right lines.

THe only problem i foresee is that damping control on the units isnt great, so the hardest setting is working best at the moment because the spring rate is too high and the damping control isnt correctly matched to vehicle weight and roll pitch.

Id probably try going softer on the springs and running the dampers softer.....actually giving the suspension a chance to do something.





yup, suspension is meant to move!!