Williams Vs Redtop corsa

[Corsa 2.0]

VX are tat.. i mean look at the astra VXR? great 250 bhp.. 2WD.. can't handle it.

as for riding in decent cars.. hows a Focus ST grab yer? my dad has one, and i've driven it quite a bit, fantastic car.

and seeing as u don't agree with me, your comment suggests that ur the one that sits weird.

Now excuse me while i go spit on a vauxhall.

Focus ST, out-performed by the VXR in every test done so far (FACT).... Unless you only listen to Jeremy Clarkson with a pre production model.... :boring:

How would I know about the VXR, or any other hot hatch? I actually have got a VXR as well thanks.... And its 237bhp, 237lb ft, not 250bhp, and have you actually driven one to comment? I've driven the ST as well, its a boring drive, you get out feeling un-inspired and un-forfilled (IMO). The VXR is much more of a fun drive, your get out thinking, that was fun, shall i get back in...

Before you comment, think about your experience with them. I have a VXR, its not my "daddies" car that i get a ride in, maybe drive once or twice... So how much difference is 225bhp from the ST under 237bhp.... On the road, not much at all, so whats the deal with the chassis? It handles it absolutly fine... Clearly your not too clued up on all this though.

But clearly from the mentality of your quote, i'd think you were a sub 20 year old know it all.... :sleepy: :sleepy:

Theres been a few good replies from what seems to be genuinly interested Clio owners, but just like Corsa owners, you always get the boyracers who drop the tone...... :clown:

 

[Corsa 2.0]

POST THE VID

Do a search on Google videos...

Nurbergring - Clio 182 and Corsa 2.0 16v.... The Clio handles better and higher speed corners, but the corsa matches it at slow speeds, and is about on par with it in terms of performance.

Difference is about £5k in price though...

Im not anally shagging corsas, nor putting down Clios, but the fact is i am looking at the pros and cons of BOTH cars, not having a biased opinion like quite a few people that have replied, or raced a corsa round their local "oners" and "done em" either......

 

[Adams_16v]

they are very similar in terms of speed, the F7R and the C20XE are similar power and respond similar to the same mods. An F7R clio will run 14.0's, martins ran 13.8 with no cams, or anything else other than a manifold and exhaust and chip which is pretty good.

the TBied ones at york seem to be running the same times as mine does.

there are more options for the C20XE's tho, and tuning is cheaper. the LETS are where the serious power is!

 

[16vturbolee]

And lee's turbo didnt rape my hybrid....

I THINK SANTA POD DECIDED THAT. I DONT THINK YOU GOT UNDER 15 SECS THAT DAY 14.31 AND WET AND WHEN WE HAD IN WESTON I WAS OVER BOOSTIN CHANGE IN GEAR AT 5000RPM AND YOU WAS ONLY JUST IN FRONT AND THROUGH THE STREETS WELL YOU SHOULD REMBER THAT NITE

 

[Chewy]

Focus ST, out-performed by the VXR in every test done so far (FACT).... Unless you only listen to Jeremy Clarkson with a pre production model.... :boring:

How would I know about the VXR, or any other hot hatch? I actually have got a VXR as well thanks.... And its 237bhp, 237lb ft, not 250bhp, and have you actually driven one to comment? I've driven the ST as well, its a boring drive, you get out feeling un-inspired and un-forfilled (IMO). The VXR is much more of a fun drive, your get out thinking, that was fun, shall i get back in...

Before you comment, think about your experience with them. I have a VXR, its not my "daddies" car that i get a ride in, maybe drive once or twice... So how much difference is 225bhp from the ST under 237bhp.... On the road, not much at all, so whats the deal with the chassis? It handles it absolutly fine... Clearly your not too clued up on all this though.

But clearly from the mentality of your quote, i'd think you were a sub 20 year old know it all.... :sleepy: :sleepy:

Theres been a few good replies from what seems to be genuinly interested Clio owners, but just like Corsa owners, you always get the boyracers who drop the tone...... :clown:

Well, i'm sorry i'm not Mr. Vauxhall.. The Astra VXR doesn't interest me, maybe thats why I don't know the figures. Oh and s**t yeh, I have driven one.. and to be quite honest I found it very uncomfortable, very unstable at the edge. Don't get me wrong there were things I liked about it, as there is with every car, but the VXR is Vauxhalls attempt to put a dint in the hot hatch market. Now I don't dispute that they have, and maybe it does out perform the Focus ST, but it's still an over the edge car.

"So how much difference is 225bhp from the ST under 237bhp" - Thats a 12bhp difference, not enough to make a noticeable difference. I still think the Focus is a better car. Feels better put together than the Astra...

I asure you i'm not sub 20. And I asure you i'm not a boy racer. So get YOUR facts right before you start accusing people.

 

[Adams_16v]

im not gonna post my vid as its a bit naughty.

i was with martin at donnington and we came up against a C20LET and he was faster on th estraights, but martins car destroyed him on the corners, and it looked like a proper track beast too so i imagine handling was 'sorted'. martin has springs and 16v track i think

 

[Chewy]

Ford Focus ST OTR Price £14,199

Vauxhall Astra VXR OTR Price £18,995

Hmmm.. there's your difference

 

[sethion33]

pipe down kids...

If everybody liked the same car the world would be a boring place.

Wouldn't it...

 

[_Tom]

I THINK SANTA POD DECIDED THAT. I DONT THINK YOU GOT UNDER 15 SECS THAT DAY 14.31 AND WET AND WHEN WE HAD IN WESTON I WAS OVER BOOSTIN CHANGE IN GEAR AT 5000RPM AND YOU WAS ONLY JUST IN FRONT AND THROUGH THE STREETS WELL YOU SHOULD REMBER THAT NITE

Haha only kiddin mate! My car would have been in the 14's easily it i could drive/get any traction i was spinning 1/2/3! I managed a 15 dead.

Fancy a another go vs the new car? lol

 

[Corsa 2.0]

And look like every other focus on the road with that spec IMO.... Only the orange one stands out, but isn't that another £800?

Im not going to get drawn into a petty argument about whos penis is bigger and faster, its the internet. Im up for reasonable debate, but "i spit on Vauxhalls", sorry, that jsut denotes a teenager comment.

If the Astra doesn't interest you, that doesn't mean its a bad car does it? So why flame it if you don't know anything about it because your dad has one. My dad has a Benelli tornado, 186mph, but thats not anything to do with a 2.0 Corsa, or a Clio williams is it..... You brought the VXR up How it handles on track opposed to the road, i'll let you know after my snetterton track day on the 26th........

Over the edge, but I enjoy "Driving" my car, not it doing the hard work for me. But thats why I have a 2.0 Corsa also, and a bike!

Anyone whos done a C20LET for a track car will have a hard time also. The engine just isn't a track engine for a corsa, it spins up too easy, and if you've done it properly with the F28 (6spd converted to 2wd) then you will also find the front is DAMN heavy... If you want track action, stick to the 2.0 or 1.6 16v.. The LET really isn't the engine to go for, but as said, its damn quick in a straight line.....

But then i'd say if you wanted a dedicated track car, don't go for a corsa, id go for something like a proper hot hatch, Mk1 or Mk2 Golf, or Pug GTi......

 

[Scutch]

Class thread. Started out just your basic standard v standard and ended up having the Max Power bits added on just for good measure. Always a good comment or two, too. I loved my Williams 3 (both of them), but I do know a Nova/Corsa with a 2.0 transplant is a fast f*cker, in a straight line. My mate has wrapped up both variants on the twisties, one a turbo. I'd go for the Williams as my choice, getting back to the original question all those pages ago

 

[Dan_mk1]

Hmm, a lot of b****cks being chucked around in this thread. I have a williams engined 16v which is stripped, cammed etc that made 181bhp and 141lbft, I also work as a salesman for Vauxhall, have an astra VXR demo at the mo and driven many a corsa GSI and a few redtop ones.

Firstly ive had a few comparisons with a few simarly specced corsa and managed to pull in every gear on all of em, redtop novas (cammed + stripped etc) seem to be more of a match (weight!?) although ill agree with martin in that redtop corsa's + novas do seem to struggle with traction whereas the hybris just grips and goes (maybe down to sorted suspension!?) So imho id say the willy would be quicker in every circumstance.

As for the VXR being a crap handler...LOL, the vxr turns in very sharp (felt a lot keener to change direction than the 182 I test drove) for a 1400kg car and handles the power fine, only in the wet does it seriously spin up with the esp turned off! I test drove an ST a few months back and found the power delivery dull, the whole driving experience was boring IMHO...to conclude, they hybrid will batter the vxr, ST, 182 etc in every way, LOL

 

[Dan_mk1]

Have to agree

Now I'm not keen on the ST but Vauxhalls latest offerings are very poor

Completely disagree with that statement, new vauxhalls feel a hell of a lot better built then like for like renault models!

 

[edde]

Do a search on Google videos...

Nurbergring - Clio 182 and Corsa 2.0 16v.... The Clio handles better and higher speed corners, but the corsa matches it at slow speeds, and is about on par with it in terms of performance.

I've no idea which video this is but videos of track driving mean nothing driver talent/stupidity etc can have a huge impact.

 

[Foz]

Dear Chris H, I am not saying the car would run fine from just the cams alone, what I am saying is that if it was done properly then an 80bhp gain is pretty good from a 2.0 non turbo engine. Both cars have their good as bad points why cant people accept that.

PS. You are the pillock

 

[_Tom]

This 80bhp from cams is stupid!

Its like saying if i put a T78 on my car i'd get an extra 120bhp!! The supporting mods is what costs the money!!

 

[Lam7r]

^^^^----Been saying that all along, some people on here (no names) just dont listen

 

[gunnergibson]

red top Novas are the ones to watch out for..
I know th eman who designed the red top engine.
Mr Alwyn Melling ;-)

 

[Ingram]

Dear Chris H, I am not saying the car would run fine from just the cams alone, what I am saying is that if it was done properly then an 80bhp gain is pretty good from a 2.0 non turbo engine. Both cars have their good as bad points why cant people accept that.

PS. You are the pillock

i must agree you are a pillock lol,and them cams would last in a strong propperly run in redtop engine,like we bin saying all along,some people dont listen,no names mentioned

 

[Lam7r]

i must agree you are a pillock lol,and them cams would last in a strong propperly run in redtop engine,like we bin saying all along,some people dont listen,no names mentioned

I will say this one last time. As you say those cams would last but unlike your quote above it will take more than a strong properly run in red top. The manufacturers of the cams say they need a Race Spec Engine or similar and that to me doesnt mean a well run in engine. It means an engine costing upwards of £5k probably with re-enforced everything, steel bottom end, solid lifters etc etc etc etc. The list goes on. The whole engine would have to be uprated to run those cams. The original comment i posted a reply to was that you could bang in a set of cams and get 80bhp which is utter balls to be frank. It would cost a small fortune to get it running on those 'top race spec' cams.

What you are saying is the same as someone else posted on this thread saying that if what you are saying is true then you might aswell say that you can 'just put on a big turbo and get 160bhp extra'

Now i really must give up on this

 

[Martin]

You might as well talk to brick wall Lam7r these morons won't listen...

 

[sethion33]

Ford Focus ST OTR Price £14,199

Vauxhall Astra VXR OTR Price £18,995

Hmmm.. there's your difference

Thats a fuckin cheap Focus.

Normaly retail at £17,520 going up to £19,520 for the higher spec..

According to the official UK Ford website that is.

http://www.ford.co.uk

 

[theduck]

Do a search on Google videos...

Nurbergring - Clio 182 and Corsa 2.0 16v.... The Clio handles better and higher speed corners, but the corsa matches it at slow speeds, and is about on par with it in terms of performance.

Difference is about £5k in price though...

your comparing the cost of a new car to an old car with an engine conversion. Its only fair to compare cars of similar age, so lets say a ph1 172 and a corsa hybrid, well that would put the corsa at 2k more expensive, and a lesser car.

 

[clowo16v]

Its OK just measured up to see if a C20XE in the clio. Fits a treat apart from i'd have to have build an airbox into the bulkhead for the throttle bodies to run in to, and modify the bonnet with a scoop to feed them.

Would be an interesting project tho.

Matt

 

[Kneel]

VX are tat.. i mean look at the astra VXR? great 250 bhp.. 2WD.. can't handle it.

as for riding in decent cars.. hows a Focus ST grab yer? my dad has one, and i've driven it quite a bit, fantastic car.

and seeing as u don't agree with me, your comment suggests that ur the one that sits weird.

Now excuse me while i go spit on a vauxhall.

I love most vauxhalls, and have owned 2 astra's. I bought a clio because of the nice running costs plus I think they are good looking cars. In my opinion though one of the worst cars ever was the vauxhall corsa. When I drove one I felt bored, the corsa engine pulled about as well as my clio, however the interior was very bland and boring, and the cars ability at cornering was no where near as good as the clio, and also the idea of owning a corsa was horrible as they are branded as a chav car and as the new nova. Of the 2 cars its the williams for me, it was a special edition clio valver with race inspired modifications that looks ace and goes really well also.

 

[Neil G]

Completely disagree with that statement, new vauxhalls feel a hell of a lot better built then like for like renault models!

Sorry but I'm just not a Vauxhall man and never will be

I think the syling of the new VXR range is dreadful but that's just my opinion...some people probably love them

 

[Chewy]

And look like every other focus on the road with that spec IMO.... Only the orange one stands out, but isn't that another £800?

Im not going to get drawn into a petty argument about whos penis is bigger and faster, its the internet. Im up for reasonable debate, but "i spit on Vauxhalls", sorry, that jsut denotes a teenager comment.

If the Astra doesn't interest you, that doesn't mean its a bad car does it? So why flame it if you don't know anything about it because your dad has one. My dad has a Benelli tornado, 186mph, but thats not anything to do with a 2.0 Corsa, or a Clio williams is it..... You brought the VXR up How it handles on track opposed to the road, i'll let you know after my snetterton track day on the 26th........

Over the edge, but I enjoy "Driving" my car, not it doing the hard work for me. But thats why I have a 2.0 Corsa also, and a bike!

the focus st looks nothing like every other focus on the road.. It's a lot chunkier, wider arches, bigger alloys, two exhuasts.. so i think u need ur eyesight checking

I don't want to get into an argument either, I gave my opinion and you took it upon yourself to flame me for it?

"If the Astra doesn't interest you, that doesn't mean its a bad car does it? So why flame it if you don't know anything about it because your dad has one." <-- My dad has a Focus ST....

I enojy driving also, but i found that the astra was too much work, the torque steer for one is very un settling. But thats just my opinion, one mans meat and all that.

 

[sethion33]

Theres no right or wrong answer its what you enjoy at the end of the day.

There are obvious differences and its all down to personal taste, being a Clio website you'd expect the majority to say Clio, not just because its better but because its gunna be bias

 

[TheJesus]

by the time you have bought a Corsa, uprated the suspension, brakes, and transpanted the engine you may as well have just bought a Williams, as even if they were identical on performance the Williams is the better looking more desirable car... the Corsa is dull to look at, mass produced and has the chav stigma

 

[CabinFever]

Back to the original question as to whats best williams or red top corsa.....hmmm tough one actually its really not, a mint unmolested williams is pretty rare a corsa is one a penny, first reaction when i see a williams " nice " when i see a corsa wether it be red top or not its still a four letter word but starts with C and end with T, plus a corsa handles like vanessa feltz on a skateboard.

 

[theduck]

corsa handles like vanessa feltz on a skateboard.

lmao. couldnt have said that better

 

[chris_m182]

i used to have a corsa, and still regularly post on corsasport.co.uk and am forever hearing the 2ltr boys saying theyve caned 172/182/ williams etc etc, im usually slightly dubious as to the accuracy of these facts as myself i would predict a pretty even straight line battle with an XE and a williams, until they reached a tricky sequence of bends with changing cambers etc.

The williams has a very composed chassis and suspension setup and will thus handle better.

Its a fair point to say that an XE could beat a williams if you replace nearly every standard suspension and engine component, but then you're looking at well over the £5k mark at least including a donor car.

When you think that good willy's can now be picked up for little over £3k, why would you want to plow that much extra dosh into a corsa for margainally better performance.

I once priced up both a C20LET and C20XE conversion for a corsa gsi, and was VERY put off by my calculations, and today i drive a clio 182, say no more.

 

[CraigV6]

Chewy how much have you driven the Astra VXR?

I have one now and it handles very well, gets the power down brilliantly (unless wet), and has no more torque steer than a Meg 225.

I tested a VXR and the ST (for half a day each) and decided I preferred the VXR in all departments other than sound. Man the ST sounds brilliant.
ST was too dull and uninvolving. Focus RS it is not!!!!!

 

[Andy_J]

ma m8 has a 214bhp XE track car and keeps ripping clutches to bits! Mind u it is a corsa! lol

 

[tbcorsa]

I have owned both a 1.8 16v clio and a 2 litre corsa. I prefer the sturdiness of the corsa but I think that the williams WILL outhandle the corsa and is a much better car overall. (even though its a flimsy french tin box)

but my current corsa has the best of both worlds, the performance to leave both the corsa and clio in a straight line and the handling to cope with anything the clio will throw at it. its a 1.6 16v corsa gsi on throttle bodies running 180ish bhp. had a bit of fun with a clio williams3 off the lights the other night and managed to pull 3 car lengths ahead by 90mph, even with a slow start. (didnt think the clio was going to have a go!)

the other thing is that most clio williams have been kept in good condition and well looked after, most 2 litre corsas are badly bodged cheap engine conversions without the brakes and suspension mods to match.

and most importantly, the driver. Im not ashamed to say that I was given quite a bit of trouble by a mildly modded 1.6 8v nova the other night, the driver was so good, knew the limits of his car and showed that wether you have 120bhp or 180bhp, if you know the limits of the car (from track practise) you can show up lots of more powerfull and supposidly better cars.

 

[Chewy]

Chewy how much have you driven the Astra VXR?

I have one now and it handles very well, gets the power down brilliantly (unless wet), and has no more torque steer than a Meg 225.

I tested a VXR and the ST (for half a day each) and decided I preferred the VXR in all departments other than sound. Man the ST sounds brilliant.
ST was too dull and uninvolving. Focus RS it is not!!!!!

I had a 1 hr test drive in one a just after they were released.. my dad was looking at that or the focus.. so i went along, and had a do in both.

I don't dispute that the vxr is exciting, because i certainly scared myself.. i just found the focus to be more to my liking.. fits my driving style better too..

 

[theduck]

Girls would you just agree that both cars are good, but that you each prefer different ones for different reasons instead of all this keyboard warrior bull s**t

 

[2 live]

iv always been very wary of the corsa/nova 2.0 conversions on the strip...some of em are very fukkin quick.

i raced a 2.0 turbo corsa outta york once, a red un......he was leavin me on the straights..but round the twisties id pull the gap back and have to brake to stop meself runnin into the back of him.


was quite a good comparison til i dropped it to 3rd for a nice left hander...n ripped the manifold in 2....ooops...lol.


pulled over n he was gone.



had to take a nice steady noisy as fuk 80mph drive home.


still.id take the williams outta the 2......a better all round motor for the money. and then some.

 

[Ross M]

christ ... what an awful argument.

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

just to settle the 80bhp from cams argument for the dumb f*****s (mentionin no names) that dont understand. this quote is takin from the website u provided us wiv as proof that u can get 80bhp from cams alone

"Power gains can only be achieved provided your engine has the components to complement it. E.g. exhaust manifold & system, induction system & cylinder head porting where required."

so NO, u cannot get 80bhp from cams ALONE! wen will u learn