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Fred and James’ Clio 182 Racecar Project
- Thread starter FrogJam Motorsport
- Start date
-
- Tags
- 182 race racecar track track build
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Cheers guys!
On a mission to get the thread up to date so expect lots of posts over the coming weeks.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 61
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 2 – Dry Sump Tank and gearbox oil cooler pump bracket
With the 3MO gearbox being slightly fatter (although shorter) than the standard JC5 the previous bracket for the drysump oil tank clashes with the gearbox. So the tank needs moving up, And to give more room for the shifter linkage will move it outboard slightly too. Very similar idea to the previous bracket but just moves the position.
Already had a CAD model of the previous bracket so could use this as a template for the new one. Had already scanned the chassis leg and gearbox for the gearbox mount. So can use this as a guide to make sure the new bracket clears the gearbox.
The old print and trace method at work again. Would love to have access to a laser cutter!
With the pieces cut out I mocked it up on the car to check the tank was going to work in the place before welding it together. The return port on the tank was going to get rather close to the strut brace so needed to make sure this would actually clear.
The feed line port originally came out of the RHS on the tank (LHS in picture). This was fine with the standard gearbox but this is right in the way of the linkage for the 3MO gearbox. So a bit of head scratching but have a plan! As the tank is a splitable tank the bottom section can be rotated. Therefore my plan was to rotate the bottom 90 degrees so the feed line would come out the front.
Bracket welded up and now time to have a sort of the tank and see if its going to work.
Took the tank apart and gave it a clean out. Wasn’t particularly dirty but just has a bit of black oil residue sat in the bottom. Was also pretty cool to see exactly how the tanks are put together with the internal baffles. Tank back together with the base rotated 90 degrees.
Think this feed port position will be much better for the hose routing. But won’t be doing the hoses until later on but have to think how and where the hoses run.
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 2 – Dry Sump Tank and gearbox oil cooler pump bracket
With the 3MO gearbox being slightly fatter (although shorter) than the standard JC5 the previous bracket for the drysump oil tank clashes with the gearbox. So the tank needs moving up, And to give more room for the shifter linkage will move it outboard slightly too. Very similar idea to the previous bracket but just moves the position.
Already had a CAD model of the previous bracket so could use this as a template for the new one. Had already scanned the chassis leg and gearbox for the gearbox mount. So can use this as a guide to make sure the new bracket clears the gearbox.
The old print and trace method at work again. Would love to have access to a laser cutter!
With the pieces cut out I mocked it up on the car to check the tank was going to work in the place before welding it together. The return port on the tank was going to get rather close to the strut brace so needed to make sure this would actually clear.
The feed line port originally came out of the RHS on the tank (LHS in picture). This was fine with the standard gearbox but this is right in the way of the linkage for the 3MO gearbox. So a bit of head scratching but have a plan! As the tank is a splitable tank the bottom section can be rotated. Therefore my plan was to rotate the bottom 90 degrees so the feed line would come out the front.
Bracket welded up and now time to have a sort of the tank and see if its going to work.
Took the tank apart and gave it a clean out. Wasn’t particularly dirty but just has a bit of black oil residue sat in the bottom. Was also pretty cool to see exactly how the tanks are put together with the internal baffles. Tank back together with the base rotated 90 degrees.
Think this feed port position will be much better for the hose routing. But won’t be doing the hoses until later on but have to think how and where the hoses run.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 61 continued
Next part to sort was where the gearbox oil cooler pump was going to go. Previously it was mounted on top of the gearbox but now the main oil feed line was going to be running straight through this area. So was trying to find another home for the pump. (This was a couple weeks after doing the previous work, at this point James was on building the engine, hence no engine block in the picture. But gearbox was going to be close enough to the final position on one mount and the jack stand to sort these sorts of things).
Decided to try and mount the pump underneath the dry sump tank. Thought it would keep the pump out the way, make the engine bay look neater and think the routing of the oil lines would work nicely too.
Need to fit the filer pre pump so used the same arrangement as previous with the 90 degree fitting and mounting the filter to the pump. Then added a simple bracket to the bottom of the oil tank bracket.
Same as the tank, will sort the hoses for the pump a little later on once the engine is built and have more of the ancillary parts attached. Will show more pictures of this once I start assembly all the parts rather than just at this more mock up stage.
Next part to sort was where the gearbox oil cooler pump was going to go. Previously it was mounted on top of the gearbox but now the main oil feed line was going to be running straight through this area. So was trying to find another home for the pump. (This was a couple weeks after doing the previous work, at this point James was on building the engine, hence no engine block in the picture. But gearbox was going to be close enough to the final position on one mount and the jack stand to sort these sorts of things).
Decided to try and mount the pump underneath the dry sump tank. Thought it would keep the pump out the way, make the engine bay look neater and think the routing of the oil lines would work nicely too.
Need to fit the filer pre pump so used the same arrangement as previous with the 90 degree fitting and mounting the filter to the pump. Then added a simple bracket to the bottom of the oil tank bracket.
Same as the tank, will sort the hoses for the pump a little later on once the engine is built and have more of the ancillary parts attached. Will show more pictures of this once I start assembly all the parts rather than just at this more mock up stage.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 62
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 3 – Driveshafts
With the engine and gearbox in place with the new mounts, I went about measuring the required driveshaft lengths using the CV joint we had chosen to use. James had done a lot of research to find what CV joint options we had rather than using the 3MO tripods for the inners. Bought one of each and picked the ones we thought were best for both inner and outer.
Annoying I didn’t take many pictures of measuring the shafts but did a fair bit of work to measure lengths at design ride height. And then calculated and measured the lengths at full rebound and jounce. So was pretty confident they would work. Sent the drawings off and got them back from being made and was crunch time to check if they work.
So was pleased to have the driveshafts sorted as they can have a fairly long lead time. Then had a bit of a curveball. Had posted pictures on Instagram about fitting the gearbox and was contacted by a guy in Scotland who was also fitting a 3MO box to a Mk2 Clio but for rallying. He was keen for us to sort his driveshafts out. Was nervous about whether the measures would be the same between the cars as the shafts have to be pretty much bang on. And seeing as the ride heights could be different too. So we had a visit to his garage and clio to check and take some measurements. In the end we sold him the set of shafts we had made for ourselves as he was closer to needing them. So built the shafts up for him and sent them over a week after our visit once we knew we could get another set made in time.
This really isn’t intended to be a shameless plug but if anyone is fitting a 3MO box to a Mk2 Clio (niche I know) we now sell the driveshafts as a full kit on our website. We have a spare set of shafts in stock just in case anyone needs a replacement quickly as well as stocking and selling the CV joints separately. So if the worst was to happen we could get a replacement shaft out the next day and I am sure I could be convinced to deliver it in person if really needed.
https://frogjammotorsport.co.uk/pro...arbox-driveshaft-kit-renault-clio-mk2-172-182
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 3 – Driveshafts
With the engine and gearbox in place with the new mounts, I went about measuring the required driveshaft lengths using the CV joint we had chosen to use. James had done a lot of research to find what CV joint options we had rather than using the 3MO tripods for the inners. Bought one of each and picked the ones we thought were best for both inner and outer.
Annoying I didn’t take many pictures of measuring the shafts but did a fair bit of work to measure lengths at design ride height. And then calculated and measured the lengths at full rebound and jounce. So was pretty confident they would work. Sent the drawings off and got them back from being made and was crunch time to check if they work.
So was pleased to have the driveshafts sorted as they can have a fairly long lead time. Then had a bit of a curveball. Had posted pictures on Instagram about fitting the gearbox and was contacted by a guy in Scotland who was also fitting a 3MO box to a Mk2 Clio but for rallying. He was keen for us to sort his driveshafts out. Was nervous about whether the measures would be the same between the cars as the shafts have to be pretty much bang on. And seeing as the ride heights could be different too. So we had a visit to his garage and clio to check and take some measurements. In the end we sold him the set of shafts we had made for ourselves as he was closer to needing them. So built the shafts up for him and sent them over a week after our visit once we knew we could get another set made in time.
This really isn’t intended to be a shameless plug but if anyone is fitting a 3MO box to a Mk2 Clio (niche I know) we now sell the driveshafts as a full kit on our website. We have a spare set of shafts in stock just in case anyone needs a replacement quickly as well as stocking and selling the CV joints separately. So if the worst was to happen we could get a replacement shaft out the next day and I am sure I could be convinced to deliver it in person if really needed.
https://frogjammotorsport.co.uk/pro...arbox-driveshaft-kit-renault-clio-mk2-172-182
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
What are your thoughts on using the Redline CV2 grease on tripod joints as opposed to the thinner NLGI 1 grade greases like GKN Tripode Grease?
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Unsure to be honest, the consensus certainly says the GKN tripod grease is the better option but then been using the Redline CV-2 on the 1 tripod with the JC5 and then these two with the 3MO and not had a problem with them so far. So more working on the principle of aint broke don't fix it.
Have you had had any issues with one or the other?
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
I've only ever used the GKN grease on tripods.
Good to know you've not had any issues with CV grease. Certainly cheaper than the GKN stuff 😅
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
If one does break we'll be straight onto the GKN grease and will be eating my words mind!
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 63
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 4 – Water Pump + Oil cooler relocation
Water pump was going in the same place as before because the front mounting location is machined to be the same as the JC5 however, the water pump needed to be rotated so a new bracket was needed. The water pump was to be rotated as the laminova oil cooler needed to be slightly lower due to the gearbox being slightly larger.
Engine and gearbox back in the car to mock up the laminova brackets, at this point the block and head were together but oil sump was still to be sealed up.
Connected the hoses to the outlet of the pump, inlet to the engine and the oil cooler inbetween to start to make the brackets. Because the package is so tight between the engine and undertray/subframe the brackets have to be exact so only way to make them really is in place and jiggle things about to get them right.
Started with the RHS mount, closest to the engine inlet. Took a bit of playing around to get the clearance between the oil hose and undertray.
Next was the other side with the laminova tight up against the gearbox. Two part bracket and tacked up so it still had a bit of give so could bend the welded joint to be perfect and then once right fully welded it and cleaned the edges up.
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 4 – Water Pump + Oil cooler relocation
Water pump was going in the same place as before because the front mounting location is machined to be the same as the JC5 however, the water pump needed to be rotated so a new bracket was needed. The water pump was to be rotated as the laminova oil cooler needed to be slightly lower due to the gearbox being slightly larger.
Engine and gearbox back in the car to mock up the laminova brackets, at this point the block and head were together but oil sump was still to be sealed up.
Connected the hoses to the outlet of the pump, inlet to the engine and the oil cooler inbetween to start to make the brackets. Because the package is so tight between the engine and undertray/subframe the brackets have to be exact so only way to make them really is in place and jiggle things about to get them right.
Started with the RHS mount, closest to the engine inlet. Took a bit of playing around to get the clearance between the oil hose and undertray.
Next was the other side with the laminova tight up against the gearbox. Two part bracket and tacked up so it still had a bit of give so could bend the welded joint to be perfect and then once right fully welded it and cleaned the edges up.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 63 - Continued
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 4 – Water Pump + Oil cooler relocation
To get enough space around the engine oil connection to the laminova the subframe needed to be notched. Cut the bit of subframe out to give clearance and then welded in a bit of roll cage tube, worked out pretty neat.
Was glad to get that done. Had spent a long time seeing if there was a better way to mount the laminova but the hose routing was just getting overly complicated. Would prefer not to have the laminova so low and close to the subframe but think the undertray should protect the laminova well enough. Next up is the shifter.
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 4 – Water Pump + Oil cooler relocation
To get enough space around the engine oil connection to the laminova the subframe needed to be notched. Cut the bit of subframe out to give clearance and then welded in a bit of roll cage tube, worked out pretty neat.
Was glad to get that done. Had spent a long time seeing if there was a better way to mount the laminova but the hose routing was just getting overly complicated. Would prefer not to have the laminova so low and close to the subframe but think the undertray should protect the laminova well enough. Next up is the shifter.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 64
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 5 – Gear Shifter
Nothing too fancy for the gear shifter really, just a bit fiddly but thought we would end up with something just as good making it ourselves rather than buying the 3MO shifter. Followed the 3MO instructions, well more just a diagram with the gearbox wanting a +/- 15mm movement in the linkage.
Started off with the shifter being the same length as the FJM JC5 shifter, feels pretty natural so going to be a good starting point. The idea was to have two ball bearings at the bottom to provide the pivot with a couple bolted brackets to mount to the body. Then the linkage mounts roughly in the middle.
Mounted a coolerworx gearknob to the shifter. We like the previous shifter feel so why change it.
Then linkage time. One end needed a clevis as a rod end threaded into the gearbox selector shaft. The other (inside) would just have a threaded hole. The estimating of the hole position was pretty spot of too.
The linkage went straight through the control panel frame, so the frame needed a bit of hacking. Wasn’t really interested in doing a perfect job with this can make a pretty one at a later date if I ever got really bored. Raised the panel up slightly and then dog legged round the linkage.
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 5 – Gear Shifter
Nothing too fancy for the gear shifter really, just a bit fiddly but thought we would end up with something just as good making it ourselves rather than buying the 3MO shifter. Followed the 3MO instructions, well more just a diagram with the gearbox wanting a +/- 15mm movement in the linkage.
Started off with the shifter being the same length as the FJM JC5 shifter, feels pretty natural so going to be a good starting point. The idea was to have two ball bearings at the bottom to provide the pivot with a couple bolted brackets to mount to the body. Then the linkage mounts roughly in the middle.
Mounted a coolerworx gearknob to the shifter. We like the previous shifter feel so why change it.
Then linkage time. One end needed a clevis as a rod end threaded into the gearbox selector shaft. The other (inside) would just have a threaded hole. The estimating of the hole position was pretty spot of too.
The linkage went straight through the control panel frame, so the frame needed a bit of hacking. Wasn’t really interested in doing a perfect job with this can make a pretty one at a later date if I ever got really bored. Raised the panel up slightly and then dog legged round the linkage.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 64 - Continued
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 5 – Gear Shifter
So with this adjusted it was all connected up with the frame in place. Looked like it was going to work just perfect.
A few more details left to sort however. First was a tube to mount a boot to the bulkhead to seal the hole up. Think there must be a better way of doing this but haven’t seen anything else yet. But made an extra part which I bolted and tiger sealed it in place.
The gearbox has a reverse lock out cable, this is to stop you going into neutral from first gear by mistake and then need to use it to go into reverse too from neutral. The cable travel had to be pretty accurate so used the actual 3MO cable handle and mounted it to our shifter.
Reverse cable lock out handle and load cell mounted and in place. Time for some paint but will show this in a later post. Had quite a bit to paint in the end before assembling everything for the final time.
3MO LC776 Gearbox Fitting
Part 5 – Gear Shifter
So with this adjusted it was all connected up with the frame in place. Looked like it was going to work just perfect.
A few more details left to sort however. First was a tube to mount a boot to the bulkhead to seal the hole up. Think there must be a better way of doing this but haven’t seen anything else yet. But made an extra part which I bolted and tiger sealed it in place.
The gearbox has a reverse lock out cable, this is to stop you going into neutral from first gear by mistake and then need to use it to go into reverse too from neutral. The cable travel had to be pretty accurate so used the actual 3MO cable handle and mounted it to our shifter.
Reverse cable lock out handle and load cell mounted and in place. Time for some paint but will show this in a later post. Had quite a bit to paint in the end before assembling everything for the final time.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Cheers guys! Appreciate the comments and makes it all worthwhile writing it up.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 65
Mk3 EPAS Column
After many attempts to get the Mk2 EPAS column working it was time to make a change, unfortunately its simply not up to the job both from a power and reliability point of view. Which isn’t really surprising when the column is meant to be used on the 1.2 dci Mk2. The Mk3 column is off a 197/200 model hence in theory is much more up to the job, aswell ruskiweldfab has done the change and says its much better.
The only down side to the Mk3 column is that it is quite a bit bigger than the Mk2 column and doesn’t package quite as nicely.
Started cutting brackets off the column to clean it up. Thought about keeping the adjustment but both James and I are happy with the shared steering wheel position so no need for the adjustment really.
Rear mount was nice and easy, had some mounting holes in the perfect place, so a small bracket and all lines up with the existing mounting point.
Came up with a new plan which meant more brackets could be cut off the rear section of the column. This would mean making a new mounting face between the 2 sections.
Welded the rear bracket up once I had checked it was all going to fit and work.
Mk3 EPAS Column
After many attempts to get the Mk2 EPAS column working it was time to make a change, unfortunately its simply not up to the job both from a power and reliability point of view. Which isn’t really surprising when the column is meant to be used on the 1.2 dci Mk2. The Mk3 column is off a 197/200 model hence in theory is much more up to the job, aswell ruskiweldfab has done the change and says its much better.
The only down side to the Mk3 column is that it is quite a bit bigger than the Mk2 column and doesn’t package quite as nicely.
Started cutting brackets off the column to clean it up. Thought about keeping the adjustment but both James and I are happy with the shared steering wheel position so no need for the adjustment really.
Rear mount was nice and easy, had some mounting holes in the perfect place, so a small bracket and all lines up with the existing mounting point.
Came up with a new plan which meant more brackets could be cut off the rear section of the column. This would mean making a new mounting face between the 2 sections.
Welded the rear bracket up once I had checked it was all going to fit and work.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 65 - Continued
Mk3 EPAS Column
Used the same steering angle sensor setup as before just with a new bracket to fit the new column.
Once painted it all looked better than I thought it would do. Not quite a neat at the old column but much more important to have it function better.
Last part was to sort the lower column/linkage between the column and rack. Did this by welding the Mk2 rack end to the Mk3 column end of the linkage. This meant that we kept the collapsible part of the column.
Engine build coming up next.
Mk3 EPAS Column
Used the same steering angle sensor setup as before just with a new bracket to fit the new column.
Once painted it all looked better than I thought it would do. Not quite a neat at the old column but much more important to have it function better.
Last part was to sort the lower column/linkage between the column and rack. Did this by welding the Mk2 rack end to the Mk3 column end of the linkage. This meant that we kept the collapsible part of the column.
Engine build coming up next.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 66
Engine Build - Part 1 – Strip Down
Time for the engine build posts. Thought some people maybe interested in seeing what condition the engine was in after a couple of years and I think it had done a total of about 6,000km. So lots of pictures of taking the engine to bits.
Cam cover off and not too much going on. Cams, followers and tappets were all new a couple years back so still all looking good.
Wanted to check the valve guides were all happy as these were the originals. So measured valve wobble. Measured at 20mm (meant to check at 25mm) and was around 0.8mm of play which is too much. So valve guides needed doing and we leave them the full length.
Sump had a fair bit of muck in it so that needed a good clean, nothing bad just oil residue. The oil pick up tube filter had a small amount of liquid gasket, so no problems there either, probably need to be a little more careful when putting the sump back on.
Bottom end all stripped, main bearings and big end bearings both had a small amount of wear but nothing unexpected.
What was probably more unexpected was the wear on the cylinder walls. Measurements taken in 6 locations per cylinder and values ranged between 7 and 25 microns over nominal. The block had been honed for the first rebuild and was on the limit so now time for a rebore.
Next up is the plan for the rebuild.
Engine Build - Part 1 – Strip Down
Time for the engine build posts. Thought some people maybe interested in seeing what condition the engine was in after a couple of years and I think it had done a total of about 6,000km. So lots of pictures of taking the engine to bits.
Cam cover off and not too much going on. Cams, followers and tappets were all new a couple years back so still all looking good.
Wanted to check the valve guides were all happy as these were the originals. So measured valve wobble. Measured at 20mm (meant to check at 25mm) and was around 0.8mm of play which is too much. So valve guides needed doing and we leave them the full length.
Sump had a fair bit of muck in it so that needed a good clean, nothing bad just oil residue. The oil pick up tube filter had a small amount of liquid gasket, so no problems there either, probably need to be a little more careful when putting the sump back on.
Bottom end all stripped, main bearings and big end bearings both had a small amount of wear but nothing unexpected.
What was probably more unexpected was the wear on the cylinder walls. Measurements taken in 6 locations per cylinder and values ranged between 7 and 25 microns over nominal. The block had been honed for the first rebuild and was on the limit so now time for a rebore.
Next up is the plan for the rebuild.
SharpyClio
ClioSport Club Member
I've been following this build since I joined. Its amazing. id love to be able to do something like this such an epic thing. love it.
Renault clio mk1 1.8
Wow! Just read your whole build from the start (it’s taken me around a week 😂). What an amazing piece of engineering. Can’t wait to see it all back together and looking forward to more engine build pictures.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Cheers guys, appreciate the comments. Got some cool stuff in the works too.
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Post Number 67
Engine Build - Part 2 – Machine work
Once the engine was stripped the block, head and crank assembly went off to the machine shop we use.
The following work was carried out on the block:
The following work was carried out on the head:
The crank shaft was also polished and the crank assembly was balanced.
Had the cam cover aqua blasted to have all the paint removed. Found on the last rebuild the bolts kept backing off slightly and pretty confident it was due to the paint, paint kept flaking off around the bolts. Preferred the look of the raw aluminium finish too but was mainly just from wanting the bolts to stay torqued. Had all the other aluminium components blasted at the same to freshen them up, made sure that they were spotlessly clean before being assembled however.
Engine Build - Part 2 – Machine work
Once the engine was stripped the block, head and crank assembly went off to the machine shop we use.
The following work was carried out on the block:
- Bored and honed with a torque plate to suit the JE pistons.
- Resurfaced but only took 1.5 thou off not to cause any problems with compression ratio or piston to head clearance.
- Replaced oil squirters.
- Removed and replaced oil gallery plugs.
- Rubbed down, washed and painted.
The following work was carried out on the head:
- Replaced and hone valve guides.
- Reface valves and valve seats to 3 angle.
- Reface head face – 2 thou.
- Decoke and lap valves.
- Rub off gasket faces and wash cylinder head.
The crank shaft was also polished and the crank assembly was balanced.
Had the cam cover aqua blasted to have all the paint removed. Found on the last rebuild the bolts kept backing off slightly and pretty confident it was due to the paint, paint kept flaking off around the bolts. Preferred the look of the raw aluminium finish too but was mainly just from wanting the bolts to stay torqued. Had all the other aluminium components blasted at the same to freshen them up, made sure that they were spotlessly clean before being assembled however.
Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
You can have a look if you don’t laugh, function over form on this one.
Welded a plate onto the pms bracket and drilled a hole for the sensor. Has worked a treat since doing it a couple years back.
Need to add a bit of clearance for the toothed abs ring as I think they usually come with magnetic rings.
Hollidog
ClioSport Club Member
182
Doesn't matter if it works!
Did you manage to get the original sensor out or did you by new?
What did you do about the reluctor ring? PMS say they don't fit on the disc.
Did you end up going to that BMW module?
Sorry for the 20 questions - red flag in the grand prix!
Did you manage to get the original sensor out or did you by new?
What did you do about the reluctor ring? PMS say they don't fit on the disc.
Did you end up going to that BMW module?
Sorry for the 20 questions - red flag in the grand prix!
FrogJam Motorsport
ClioSport Trader
Can’t remember on the old sensors, was a long time ago since taking them apart. Need to find which exact rings we used in the end, but just measured the out diameter of the rear discs and found some which fit and then made the weld on blocks to suit. Yer using the bmw unit but not sure it’s necessary. Spoke with someone who had got the Clio unit working without the standard ecu and uch which we didn’t think was possible, not that we tried but sounds like we should have given it ago.
