172 Cup SC Vs 197 Cup

[d4nmc]

Power can be bought Talent can't
Learn to drive on track, don't go the supper sticky tyre route as you will soon get bored.
Lot more fun to be had playing with car on limit

The track days I've done this year ive had R888s fitted, which were a big improvement from the T1R Proxes I used to use on my FRP Fiesta I used to track.

Got loads to learn with track driving, I've got about a dozen good sessions under my belt on a few different tracks now- far from experienced though! The clio is just about spot on for the tracks I've played about on so far, dont realistically need any more power- but it would be nice

 

[jack_kemp]

Unless you have a massive budget, you can get the same power from an N/A Clio as a charged one really.... And then
Keep the reliability in tact.

 

[mikey123]

Just to add my bit, i currently own a 197 and i have also driven Biohzrd's Meg 225 (stage 1 remap).

I love the 197 to bits BUT if you are wanting a step up in power from the 172 i'd go for the meg tbh. Not a huge deal of difference from the 172-197.

The Megane is just that bit more 'solid' than the 197 in my opinion.

Then again there is quite a difference in pricing between them.....

 

[ForceIndia]

If track work is a factor, keep the cup as is for everyday. 6K should get you into a very nice charged MX5.

 

[d4nmc]

Unless you have a massive budget, you can get the same power from an N/A Clio as a charged one really.... And then
Keep the reliability in tact.

When it comes to further modding the cup if i decide it's a keeper for good then the budget will rest between £5-6k for that I'd be wanting:

Seats & Harnesses
Discs and pads
ITB Kit
182 Manifold
RS Tuner
BTB/ Yozza to replace my Ktec

My tyres from last year will last a few more sessions at best, I was thinking about changing to Hancooks Track effort as I've read good things about them.

 

[d4nmc]

If track work is a factor, keep the cup as is for everyday. 6K should get you into a very nice charged MX5.

This is a very realistic possibility as I do enjoy driving the Cup every day- it's got enough go and enough show to satisfy me. I'm yet to drive or have much experience with a charged mx5 but have read and seen nothing but good things about them, when they are prepped properly they look and go the business.

Really need to drive one or get a passenger ride to make my mind up properly, anyone got any experience in this field?

 

[ForceIndia]

This is a very realistic possibility as I do enjoy driving the Cup every day- it's got enough go and enough show to satisfy me. I'm yet to drive or have much experience with a charged mx5 but have read and seen nothing but good things about them, when they are prepped properly they look and go the business.

Really need to drive one or get a passenger ride to make my mind up properly, anyone got any experience in this field?

Steve, and Waitey I've driven a couple, all mk1's. Brilliant.

 

[d4nmc]

Steve, and Waitey I've driven a couple, all mk1's. Brilliant.

Super/turbo charged ones to? What was the power output of the ones youve experienced ish? They are very nimble normally with smooth power delivery when NA, if it was supercharged i imagine it would remain similar but a bit more oomph? A turbo would be fun but I'm unsure if that's very common.

Off to the mx5 OC for me to do some snooping

They are definately a step on from my requirements and possibly way above my needs or ability, but pah! I'm sure I can learn to live with the guilt, and learn to drive it well.

 

[d4nmc]

Just browsing PH gathering more megane research- am I daft for liking the look of a 225 (or 225 cup) which I can spend some ££££s on more than an R26! I'm failing to see many things other than the age which make it a better idea... What am i missing?

 

[SteveS Cup]

Unless you have a massive budget, you can get the same power from an N/A Clio as a charged one really.... And then
Keep the reliability in tact.

Yes but with the SC kit you can upgrade further... once you're at ITB's with "similar" power to a mild SC kit there's hardly anything you can do which will keep it reliable to up the power.

 

[SteveS Cup]

The supercharging route is seeming less and less of a good idea the more I hear from people who have done it and the more I listen to the reasoning of those who have already faced this choice. I'm a CUP man so the AC ain't ever been an element I got used to anyways.

R26 and Focus RS are just about level pegging in my books tbh, I have wanted a Focus for a long time though so I'd be hard pushed to look past a nice one- to be fair though the same could be said for a nice R26!

Go JAP? Unlikely unless it's a screaming Civic Type R or an R32 GTR- I'm not realistically considering those cars as a viable replacement but never say never I guess.

Lol, I used to have a Cup, but the AC is a must for me in the Summer!!!

I'd be looking to move on, I just think you'll regret spending money on the 172 in the end. I'm releaved I've got the idea out of my head!

R26 / FRS... who cares, but they're definately the wiser choice. Both are already blown so in terms of upping the power is easy. Both will be complimented with handling upgrades and both would be just as good on track however they won't be as much fun (boost FTL IMO).

So, as you like VTEC (I love it personally!) but I'm not a lover over the Civic (I'd have one but they just don't do it for me 100%) what about a DC5 Integra Type R???? 220bhp VTEC NA, LSD, Recaro's, Brembo's... Does it get any better!? It's a good use of cash as it will hold it's money well being quite rare, it wouldn't be burning money like sc'ing the clio, it wouldn't bore you as much as boost, they feel just as raw as a Cup and they're brilliant handling (I would of thought they'd be great on track but not had any experience on a track let alone in a DC5 on track!). But I've driven them a fair bit (my mate used to have one) and I'd really like one next.

 

[mso]

It's like a club. Anyone that's a member has a bad neck from shaking their head and tutting.

Yes but with the SC kit you can upgrade further... once you're at ITB's with "similar" power to a mild SC kit there's hardly anything you can do which will keep it reliable to up the power.

My sc Clio has been running for over 6 months now with no problems at all. You need to go in one just to see the difference these kits make, a itb Clio would not live with a sc one anyone who says different is talking crap.

 

[SteveS Cup]

My sc Clio has been running for over 6 months now with no problems at all. You need to go in one just to see the difference these kits make, a itb Clio would not live with a sc one anyone who says different is talking crap.

That's what I'm saying mate! A SC clio will remain reliable as will an ITB clio.

However, an upgaded SC clio will probably be more reliable than an ITB Clio revving to 8500rpm to get more power!!!

 

[d4nmc]

Lol, I used to have a Cup, but the AC is a must for me in the Summer!!!

I'd be looking to move on, I just think you'll regret spending money on the 172 in the end. I'm releaved I've got the idea out of my head!

R26 / FRS... who cares, but they're definately the wiser choice. Both are already blown so in terms of upping the power is easy. Both will be complimented with handling upgrades and both would be just as good on track however they won't be as much fun (boost FTL IMO).

So, as you like VTEC (I love it personally!) but I'm not a lover over the Civic (I'd have one but they just don't do it for me 100%) what about a DC5 Integra Type R???? 220bhp VTEC NA, LSD, Recaro's, Brembo's... Does it get any better!? It's a good use of cash as it will hold it's money well being quite rare, it wouldn't be burning money like sc'ing the clio, it wouldn't bore you as much as boost, they feel just as raw as a Cup and they're brilliant handling (I would of thought they'd be great on track but not had any experience on a track let alone in a DC5 on track!). But I've driven them a fair bit (my mate used to have one) and I'd really like one next.

I agree in part on spending money on the 172 would be a regret, but my favourite car I've owned I spent loads on and made it exactly wanted and then sold it because of getting points and it being a marked car . Charged my Clio would be an animal, I need to get into one for a test ride somewhere.

I don't like DC 5 Tegs as I'm not keen on the look of them as beautiful as some people think they are and I know they are an awesome drive, prefer the DC2s tbh but if it's gotta be a Honda it's most likely gonna be an S2000.

 

[SteveS Cup]

I agree in part on spending money on the 172 would be a regret, but my favourite car I've owned I spent loads on and made it exactly wanted and then sold it because of getting points and it being a marked car . Charged my Clio would be an animal, I need to get into one for a test ride somewhere.

I don't like DC 5 Tegs as I'm not keen on the look of them as beautiful as some people think they are and I know they are an awesome drive, prefer the DC2s tbh but if it's gotta be a Honda it's most likely gonna be an S2000.

What did you have previously???

 

[d4nmc]

A Racing Puma engined mk5 Fiesta, full cage, coilovers etc. It was pushing out 160+ BHP and was sooooo much fun to drive and fitted the bill perfectly. Should never have sold it! A SC 172 Cup would be just as special, Jamsport are the tuners I had in mind having seen their work on a couple of different STs... Not sure how they are perceived in Clio World?

 

[Steve]

Steve, and Waitey I've driven a couple, all mk1's. Brilliant.

I got invited to Oulton when the Nutz lads did a trackday, every sc/turbo combination going.
Power outputs from 160-280+!! Proper figures not dreamers.
The higher power ones NEED respect otherwise your at there mercy, accident waiting to happen, but thrilling.
I went for the mk3 sport as Rodders is now evolvling these through http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...RzZ3SBiI6c2gdi__A&sig2=J0e5RwIpl12SB0ej4agj6g

More involving drive & for me more rewarding compared to the clios i had.
Very light on mechanicals & so far bulletproof.

S2000 didn't like that one bit!

 

[mso]

It's like a club. Anyone that's a member has a bad neck from shaking their head and tutting.

I agree in part on spending money on the 172 would be a regret, but my favourite car I've owned I spent loads on and made it exactly wanted and then sold it because of getting points and it being a marked car . Charged my Clio would be an animal, I need to get into one for a test ride somewhere.

I don't like DC 5 Tegs as I'm not keen on the look of them as beautiful as some people think they are and I know they are an awesome drive, prefer the DC2s tbh but if it's gotta be a Honda it's most likely gonna be an S2000.

It sounds like you will love a sc Clio, even at 5000 rpm mines hitting 200 bhp so you don't have to rev them to get a move on. When you do rev it thou it goes bloody well they just pull all the way through the revs no matter what gear you in there is no torque steer what's so ever sure you get wheel spin in the wet in the first 2 gears but in the dry just get her into 2nd gear and hang on. The other day a 54 plate evo tried to have a go down a duel carriageway and not once did it get passed he was about 4 car lengths behind so not much it and we was taking up both lanes so if he had the power he would have went past but he couldn't !!!!!! And he didn't even give me the thumbs up when I turned off, 1 p***ed off evo driver I think.

 

[Munson]

Supercharged 172 with no torque steer? My 182 torque steered and it was standard.

 

[d4nmc]

Anyone in the north of England with a charged Clio? I'm gonna give Jamsport a ring on Monday, see what facts they can add which can add to the argument.

 

[Christopher]

KuFuSpaghetti.

I've driven it and it's hilariously quick. It'd slaughter an R26.

 

[theduck]

Just browsing PH gathering more megane research- am I daft for liking the look of a 225 (or 225 cup) which I can spend some ££££s on more than an R26! I'm failing to see many things other than the age which make it a better idea... What am i missing?

To answer this as it seems to have been missed, R26 has 5bhp more (oooh...) different turbo and most importantly an LSD.

 

[Munson]

Didn't realise the R26 had a different turbine. Learn something new every day, as they say.

 

[ForceIndia]

My sc Clio has been running for over 6 months now with no problems at all. You need to go in one just to see the difference these kits make, a itb Clio would not live with a sc one anyone who says different is talking crap.

I've driven a sc cup.

 

[ForceIndia]

Anyone in the north of England with a charged Clio? I'm gonna give Jamsport a ring on Monday, see what facts they can add which can add to the argument.

If you're in the north, I'd go to rs tuning in leeds.

 

[pritchard182]

considerd the r27? got the cup chase and all the ff extras

 

[Munson]

R27 is awesome. In Nimbus though

 

[d4nmc]

R27 is awesome. In Nimbus though

To answer this as it seems to have been missed, R26 has 5bhp more (oooh...) different turbo and most importantly an LSD.

Factory fitted LSD is a good attribute, my fiesta was useless without the FRP LSD- so that's definately a plus point for the R26! Went and had a poke around a LY R26 at the local Renault Stealership, side by side with a RS Megane 225 Cup (I think) in red which had a few mods it looked like the better car. Interior/mileage/colour etc all better on the R26, I'm beginning to understand why they are more highly rated.

 

[d4nmc]

If you're in the north, I'd go to rs tuning in leeds.

How is there SC kit rated/ thought of though? Is that not where some of the horror stories come from? Having seen an ST Supercharger conversion from Jamsport up close I'm nothing but impressed, the car in question was a stage 2.5 with 320bhp- BEAST just about covers it!

 

[Munson]

LSD FTW. Power understeer be gone!

 

[d4nmc]

LSD FTW. Power understeer be gone!

Damn right! My fiesta was a hedge magnet and that wasn't as powerful as a Supercharged Clio, after the LSD was fitted (all Racing Puma lumps don't come with them, only a limited run) it transformed the way the car handled- especially on the entrance/exit to corners.

 

[theduck]

RS Tuning are very good. Cant comment on JamSport as haven't seen any of their stuff.

 

[d4nmc]

considerd the r27? got the cup chase and all the ff extras

I've thought about it a lot, if that's your car it's stunning mate! That to me is exactly what I'd want from a 197, just not sure if the goodies/beauty of it balance out the cost well enough for me

 

[mso]

Supercharged 172 with no torque steer? My 182 torque steered and it was standard.

That's right mate no torque steer, power is so smooth with a sc than a turbo I also got the new GeN 90 ecu which helps with the power delivery, now listen if this kit was s**t I would tell everyone about it and not to waste there money on one,you should listen to owners who have had it done not to someone who thinks they know what they are talking about that has never been in one.

 

[Gaz_]

I'd be looking for a change. You will (one day) hate spending all that cash on a 8 year old car. I loved my 172 Cups but a 197 is a much nicer place to be. Yes they are on an even keel performance wise, but better in lots more areas . Getting into a newer car makes the MK2's feel old, really old . I'd be looking at a 197/meg/FRS............

 

[theduck]

That's right mate no torque steer, power is so smooth with a sc than a turbo I also got the new GeN 90 ecu which helps with the power delivery, now listen if this kit was s**t I would tell everyone about it and not to waste there money on one,you should listen to owners who have had it done not to someone who thinks they know what they are talking about that has never been in one.

I've spoken at length with the owner of a car with the same conversion, and inspected it up close, it is far from a good conversion.

 

[ForceIndia]

I've spoken at length with the owner of a car with the same conversion, and inspected it up close, it is far from a good conversion.

Ditto. As it stands, it's a mess. I've driven it too.

 

[mso]

I've spoken at length with the owner of a car with the same conversion, and inspected it up close, it is far from a good conversion.

I can only talk about my car and I am more than happy with it, I did have some small problems at the start mainly juddering when cold but that's sorted out now, last time on RR it made 255bhp it just seems strange that other people have had problems with there's when mine has been 100% ok !!!!!

 

[Munson]

That's right mate no torque steer, power is so smooth with a sc than a turbo I also got the new GeN 90 ecu which helps with the power delivery, now listen if this kit was s**t I would tell everyone about it and not to waste there money on one,you should listen to owners who have had it done not to someone who thinks they know what they are talking about that has never been in one.

LOL calm down dear. It was a question. Hence the question mark. I'm very surprised (for the reason I stated) but I take your word for it.

 

[Not a Diesel!!!]

I had a Clio Trophy which I changed for a R26. My wife had a 182FF then my Trophy for a year. Now with a 197 Cup.

Too be honest I never considered the 197 as I thought it was a step down on performance from the 182. But do not write one off without driving.

Oh and size wise they are pretty much the same - See for yourself.