172 vs mr2

[darswold]

right folks,

i need your expert knowledge.

i have a mate who owns a mk2 AUTOMATIC (what is the point i hear you say) 2.0 toyota mr2.

since i have bought my 172 all he goes on about is how fast his car is and how faster it is than mine !

is it faster than mine and what are the stats ?

bearing in mind, his mph needle only goes to 125 !

cheers

darswold




[Edited by darswold on 09 July 2004 at 2:07am]

 

[telford_mike]

We had a Cliosport trackday at Bedford a couple of years ago, and we invited a couple of non-Clios to make up the numbers. One of them was an MR2 Mk2, 2.0 16v manual. It was absolute cannon-fodder in every department.

 

[Toypop]

*sigh*

As I said last night before the troubles, my friend has a 168bhp Mk2 Manual - I expect your mate has the even slower 150bhp unit. Unmodified my mates car has 130bhp per tonne. I know the 182 is 168bhp per tonne and the 172 only a tiny bit less so that says it all.


Actually it doesnt say it all because the MR2s bhp and bhp per tonne figure are not indicative of the performance. Toyota obviously went for a headline bhp figure to impress the hairdressers.

The price of this is that it has absolutely no go in it at all until the final 500rpm when it suddenly produces a little kick but by then you have to change gear and re-enter Nissan Micra land. In the real world it feels very slow and everyone that my friend takes out in it comes back saying that it is no quicker than a 2.0 Cavalier.


Its supposed to do 60 in 7.7secs but in reality Id guess its around 8.5 although even that doesnt give a true indication because a drag race allows it to be revved hard and kept as close to the power as possible. Take it round a track and the narrow power band will hurt it even more.

Of course it could be that my mates has a knackered engine but it was only about 60k on the clock.

Anyway my friend like yours has fantasies and I think they are carried away by how the car looks. The fantasy was shattered not so long ago when he raced up a bypass near where we live with my other friends Mk1 Golf GTI glued to his bumper all the way.... a 20 year old 1.6 Golf!!!!

 

[Neil82]

My pals old 2.0 16 valve MR2 (de-cat/ik/exhaust) was faster than a 172. I have a video of it matching Macs Cup all the way up the strip. I have raced it many times in the Leon Cupra R and there was very little in it. When my Cup was standard he would get beat 2nd/3rd but in 4th it was very very even. After modding my Cup I could beat him very easily tho.

 

[MAC30L]

Quote: Originally posted by Neil82cup on 10 July 2004

My pals old 2.0 16 valve MR2 (de-cat/ik/exhaust) was faster than a 172. I have a video of it matching Macs Cup all the way up the strip. I have raced it many times in the Leon Cupra R and there was very little in it. When my Cup was standard he would get beat 2nd/3rd but in 4th it was very very even. After modding my Cup I could beat him very easily tho.

in that race on the 1/4 I think I ran a 15.4. very poor. You said that the fastest he has ran is a 15.0? I run 14.6/14.7 all day now - and still standard

 

[Toypop]

My friends has an induction kit. Hasnt made any difference - its still slow.


I see in the back of Evo that the 172 has 156bhp per tonne and the Cup 172. Must be one hell of a de-cat/exhaust in that MR2 although I found with my friends that it feels respectable once you get up over the national speed limit so in standing quarters it might be ok but I cant think of a more pointless test in terms of reflecting how quick a car is on the road or track.


I know one thing for sure though, my mates wont make 100mph in under 20 secs. Not in a millions years.

 

[Neil82]

http://www.grahamcrane.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Cupvsmr2.WMVhttp://www.grahamcrane.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Cupvsmr2.WMV

 

[Neil82]

Quote: Originally posted by Toypop on 10 July 2004


My friends has an induction kit. Hasnt made any difference - its still slow.


I see in the back of Evo that the 172 has 156bhp per tonne and the Cup 172. Must be one hell of a de-cat/exhaust in that MR2 although I found with my friends that it feels respectable once you get up over the national speed limit so in standing quarters it might be ok but I cant think of a more pointless test in terms of reflecting how quick a car is on the road or track.


I know one thing for sure though, my mates wont make 100mph in under 20 secs. Not in a millions years.





Look at the video, his MR2 is every bit as fast as a 182/Cup.

 

[MAC30L]

Quote: Originally posted by Neil82cup on 10 July 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Toypop on 10 July 2004


My friends has an induction kit. Hasnt made any difference - its still slow.


I see in the back of Evo that the 172 has 156bhp per tonne and the Cup 172. Must be one hell of a de-cat/exhaust in that MR2 although I found with my friends that it feels respectable once you get up over the national speed limit so in standing quarters it might be ok but I cant think of a more pointless test in terms of reflecting how quick a car is on the road or track.


I know one thing for sure though, my mates wont make 100mph in under 20 secs. Not in a millions years.






Look at the video, his MR2 is every bit as fast as a 182/Cup.

<A title="Show races for Stevie Mcintyre" style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12px; COLOR: #990000" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/select_run.asp?RunDate=20040418&RaceID=1020&CarNumber=169USTEVIE MCINTYRE/U

http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/images/head_quartermile.gif 15.725 sec sec

http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/images/head_reactiontime.gif 0.675 sec

http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/images/head_60fttime.gif 2.634 sec

http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/images/head_maxspeed.gif 91.3 mph mph


Left lane



Neil, this is not a good time for my Cup. 15.7? There is valvers that go faster than this! This was the 1st time that I have ever had my Cup up the strip. The MR2 had been up loads and it got a blistering start.

 

[MAC30L]

<A title="Show the times for this run" style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=533U533/U

15.739 sec

Andi Clark

Impreza

<A title="Show the times for this run" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=533UMore »/U


<A title="Show the times for this run" style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=583U583/U

16.031 sec

K Coote

Imperza

<A title="Show the times for this run" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=583UMore »/U


<A title="Show the times for this run" style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=717U717/U

16.228 sec

Blair Mcintosh

Saxo Vtr

<A title="Show the times for this run" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=717UMore »/U


<A title="Show the times for this run" style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=790U790/U

15.980 sec

Paul Hart

Fiat Bravo

<A title="Show the times for this run" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=790UMore »/U


<A title="Show the times for this run" style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=1021U1021/U

15.610 sec

Stevie Mcintyre

Clio

<A title="Show the times for this run" href= "http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/show_times.asp?CarNumber=112&RunDate=20040418&RaceID=1021UMore »/U
MR2 in question!

Not Cup territory as you can see. Not making excuses for my 15.7. judge for yourselves!

 

[Neil82]

The time he went to Crail b4 he raced you he was running mailto:15.0@96">15.0@96 mph... Trust me ive raced it many times and it is just as fast as most standard Cups and faster than a 172, and very nearly as fast as the LCR!

 

[Toypop]

Something funny going on there.

Cup V MR2

172 vs 168

1011kg vs 1230kg

171bhp/tonne vs 130bhp/tonne

Should be a complete walk over. In standard trim we time my friends to 60 in over 8 seconds and you can only gain so much from improving airflow.

How the heck can you counter a deficit of 40bhp/tonne with just a decat/exhaust/induction kit?

Most tests show the Cup doing around 6.5 to 60 and and 17.5 to 100 - funnily enough the 225bhp turbo MR2 is doing 6.2 to 60 and 16.5 to a hundred so that video suggest the MR2 has almost identical performance to the 57bhp higher turbo version?

Hmmmm a new exhaust and filter providing the same power increase as a turbo? Not being funny or anything but can you guys spot the difference between a Turbo and an NA MR2!! Sounds to me like you have had your trousers pulled down!!!!

 

[Neil82]

Tony accept it m8, you cant argue with a video and ive played with it about 20 + times on road.




http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1089468548__crail.jpg

Thats some terminal for those 60 fts, I did a 2.2 60 ft later on that day but the clutch gave in when I changed it into 3rd..

 

[Toypop]

Getting back to darswolds question, check out the figures below for an unmodified car and remember the Auto is even slower.

Autocar Mk2 MR2 test which reveals as I suspected and as our own little races proved the car is even slower in real life than the manufacturers figures - infact they found it to be slower than the older 158bhp motor:

Capacity (cc) ................. 1998
Max power (bhp) ............... 173
Max turque (lb ft) ............ 137
Top speed (mph) ............... 129
0-60mph (sec) ................. 7.9
30-70mph ...................... 7.7
Standing quarter mile ......... 17.1
30-50mph ...................... 9.3
50-70mph ...................... 13.7
Overall mpg ................... 28.0
Touring mpg ................... 36.2
Mph/l000rpm in top gear ....... 21.2
Weight (kg) ................... 1285


I wont second guess what happened to the boys at the drag strip or what mods had been done to the MR2! I know what I have seen from the passenger seat of a 20 year old Golf so Dars I dont think you need to worry!

 

[Neil82]

I know whats been done to the MR2 in the video ive driven it and it was owned by my pal, it has a open k and n IK, de-cat pipe and a mongoose exhaust. Its faster than a 172 and evens with a Cup/182. End of story.

 

[screech]

Most tests show the Cup doing around 6.5 to 60 and and 17.5 to 100 - funnily enough the 225bhp turbo mr2 is doing 6.2 to 60 and 16.5 to a hundred so that video suggest the mr2 has almost identical performance to the 57bhp higher turbo version?

6.2 is the figure for the 200bhp lhd america version. 5.7 is for the 220bhp model and end of 93 version (240bhp) is 5.3. ive raced n/a mr2s in my turbo and once above 80 the turbo annihilates the n/a



1/4 mile for ealy ones is 14.0-5 secs, later ones are about 13.7-8. n/a is 15s


[Edited by screech on 14 July 2004 at 3:52pm]

 

[Tom]

LOL @ this thread.

Its a non starter we all know the answer.

 

[matt the cat]

if hes ya mate then have a race with him, simple!!

If you win then yours is faster and vice versa.

 

[screech]

yeah i 2nd that, just race each other, being an auto will mean more than likely youll win

just to point out as well the 173 bhp later ones are slower than the early ones with 158, they hit 60 in 7.2 instead of 7.7 due to power delivery and weight

 

[darswold]

hello folks,

well, decided to have a race with him tonight.....guess what ?

i whopped the arse off him ! i really did leave him standing, even at the higher speeds he couldnt catch up, there was one point where i actually thought he was going to go out of view !!!

he had the nerve to come up with all the excuses....my foot slipped off the pedal, its due a service, the road conditions arnt right (it was dry)

so to answer my own question.......mk1 172 - 1

mk2 mr2 2.0 16v auto - 0

wahey !!!

cheers

darswold

 

[Tom]

exactly, slow as sh*t.