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182, civic type r or seat leon cupra r



  V6 hopefully
What one would you buy?? The type r and the leon are faster over a straiht line, but i know the clio likes the twisties. If you had a choice, what one??
 

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  MK2 FRS
Honestly its a tough one, the CTR and LCR are in different budget compared to the 182.

If it was premier CTR then thats what id go for, otherwise LCR.

I have owned all three;)
 
  106 GTi
Drive all 3, like Ad says all very different cars.

I had a few test drives in each before I went for my 182, which met my needs due to a past history of french hot hatches.
 
Hmm, depends on what your after.

I doubt you'll have as much fun with the CTR/LCR especially around the twistys as you would in the clio.

LCR/Clio are well equipped. CTR is not. (No aircon as standard, not even bloody foglights as standard) LCR/CTR build qualities are leagues ahead of clios though!

LCR has a blower and is very east to tune. £500 spent on it will give you an increase of 50bhp/80lbft. £500 on CTR/Clio will give you an increase of 10bhp/10lbft.

CTR/Clio are high revvers. You can drop down 2-3 gears in the 182/CTR, where as in the LCR you can keep it in the same gear!

Running costs, (Insurance/Petrol/Tax/Servicing) all probably around the same.

Image is obviously personal opinion but they are all good looking cars IMO, although i personally would rate in terms of appearance LCR/CTR/Clio.

It all depends on what you want really
 

ian Bojo 182

ClioSport Club Member
  FN2 Type R +MK6 Golf
leon or ctr would be my choice .
The clio is nippy but if you want good build and you want it to be fast over 80mph then i would'nt pick the clio

ian
 
B

Brown.

ad personally go for the cupra but ad get the diesel on ......honestly, then get it remapped 300nm torque standard, remap you get 194bhp!!! thats mad!!! although its 194 for a milisecond but s**t.....mpg will be good..... cost of servicing...baaaad....actually just ignor me
 
Performance wise they are all identical up to 100mph, after which the Clio starts to run out of puff, in comparison.

I've not driven the LCR so won't comment other than to say I have raced one and it was level pegging up to around 80, which were the highest speeds we reached. In fact I pulled on him a couple of times but I think hew was off boost.

The CTR - Blinding engine and gearbox. Great grip. Rubbish handling (IMO) The steering is like using a games console steering wheel. With the rumble turned off. Other than that, I loved my brothers CTR, but ultimately once the Vtec rush wore off, there wasn't much else about it to enjoy as a drivers car. IMO.

Clio - Equally as quick to 100mph (proven several times) as the CTR. Not as well made. Engine and box not as good - although there is a great rough metalic character to the whole drive train and exhaust note. Very different to the CTRs but almost as good in it's own, different way. The CTRs is more surgical but the Clios has more soul and character. Handling wise there's no contest. Clio every time. Grip levels are probably similar as are cornering speeds IF you dare to push the CTR hard enough, which I found very difficult simply because there is NO feedback at all through the steering. CTR = great car let down by rubbish steering.

I'd buy the Clio. In fact I did :)
 
  Honda Civic Type R
yeah that is a fair comment but the handling is not rubbish. it's just that due to the lack of feedback, it takes a while to realise the ctr's limits. but when pushed hard and driven properly it handles brilliantly. if you take one on the track you'll know what i mean. it's one of those cars you can just throw into a corner, ride out the understeer until you drift too far off your line and then lift off slightly and wait for the overtsteer to snap it back in shape. it's a really fun handling car but the steering gives you no confidence on the public road go fast round corners.

whether or not it handles better than a clio i don't know. it's certainly capable of beating one round a twisty track. tiff needell and jason plato have done it. but in some tests the clio has won. they are really close.

i think for the normal average joe (i.e non professional racing driver), you will find the clio to be an easier car to drive 'in the twisties' quickly due to much better feedback through the wheel and a great chassis and light body. however when both driven by a someone who really knows what they're doing (i'm not talking about myself) there's nothing in it.

As we're not all pro racing drivers and drive on public roads 99.9% of the time, then for that reason the clio is a better handling car

This might start arguments now but it's my opinion. :D
 
  Honda Civic Type R
Handling wise there's no contest. Clio every time. Grip levels are probably similar as are cornering speeds IF you dare to push the CTR hard enough:)

If they can corner at the same speeds then surely handling wise it's not a "no contest". That's why whenever they're raced around a twisty track there's nothing in it. I just think it's harder to do it with a ctr unless you're really used to the car
 

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  MK2 FRS
One fact to correct, the running cost are not the same,

The LCR is the most thirsty fuel wise and the CTR most expensive to insure.

If you didnt expect more clio votes on a renaultsport site... then....

But worth driving al three for sure... but like a said, the clio is a lot cheaper and this is reflected in many areas from service to build quality and retention...
 
  Nissan 350Z
Clio is a better handling car IMO. I wouldnt say a car that, as ozzie puts it, understeers constantly when pushed is a particularly good handling characteristic. It might be predictable, but thats not fun. Simple fact is it lacks the outright chuckability, agility and feedback levels of the clio and in my book this makes the clio a far more accomplished handler; cornering speeds are pretty much irelevant - plenty of cars can corner quickly but that doesnt mean to say they "handle".

Personally the CTR leaves me cold. It looks ok, i suppose, but it feels like your sitting in a people carrier when you drive it, the chassis lacks fun factor, the steering is rubbish, it feels heavy. As for the engine, it disguises its lack of torque by having ridiculously short gearing. Its good fun to push hard, but it doesnt feel all that quick, and the engine note was disappointing to me, it just sounds strained and thrashy. I wouldnt have said it sounded any better than the Clio TBH. And it feels slower, even if it isnt. Add to that, the fact it costs more to buy and run and comes with less standard equipment, and for me, it was never a particularly enticing option.

The LCR is basically just a Golf Mk4. Its the best handling out of the VAG platform cars, but the engine has a dull sound, and it feels heavy to drive. Its more of a grand tourer than a thrashy B road blaster, of course you may like that. Definitely more effortless to drive either, but that could be boring if you enjoy having to work for your thrills. I'd say it was the best looking car of the lot though.
 
yeah that is a fair comment but the handling is not rubbish. it's just that due to the lack of feedback, it takes a while to realise the ctr's limits. but when pushed hard and driven properly it handles brilliantly. if you take one on the track you'll know what i mean. it's one of those cars you can just throw into a corner, ride out the understeer until you drift too far off your line and then lift off slightly and wait for the overtsteer to snap it back in shape. it's a really fun handling car but the steering gives you no confidence on the public road go fast round corners.

I think it depends on how you define "handling". Grip and ability are one thing, but good steering is a massive part of "handling" IMO, and in this area the CTR sucks major league c**k :(
 
  182FF c/w Recaros
Got to agree on the running costs to.

Clio was a quite a bit cheaper for me to insure. Has better Fuel consumption so i'm told and posibly cheaper to maintain.
 
  FF 182, v6 wheels
i have had a ctr and now own a 172, but wont comment on the LCr as i have never had one.

i agree with a few saying the ctr handling is rubbish. you get a bit of rain on the roads, it becomes even worse! i prefer my clio much more, as they are such an understated car, and will really put a smile on your face when you see the looks of surprise on ppls faces when you piull of at the lights.

as for speed, there is absolutely no difference, between the ctr and the clio, if anything the clio is faster, because of its fantastic handling.
 
  FF Blackgold 182
The steering is like using a games console steering wheel. With the rumble turned off.:)

LMAO!

Classic line. Harsh, but probably fair:D


Having driven my m8's CTR, I have to agree. Haven't thought of it like that before, but it's very true. Blinding engine and rev note, but rubbish handling, especially on the limit! Trust me on that one! Nearly a case of CTR 0, Big Fat Oak Tree 1! V-Tech Rush does get boring though as it can't offer much else.
 
  cock mobile.
Of the three listed I'd have a Clio and it would be a 172 Cup.

I can't be bothered to explain why, most of the points are in there.

The only thing I haven't noticed anyone saying is the LCR ride quality is truly shocking, I'm sure it's just down to have 18s on it, but I was very surprised how bad it was.
 

riz

ClioSport Club Member
  Jaguar XFR
autotrader mate the leaon is expensive if u want a ctr there not that much more expensive than a 182,

leon Cupra R(only) is best looking not most agile but nice alot more torqy than others but staightline speed same.a nicer golf, but a nice car

CTR is not slower than a 182 same speed exactly driven one loads, nothing in it but doesnt have traction control brilliant engine,standard crap interior like clio, get 53 plate onward as it has recaros and better lights,was going to get 1 but servicing is avg£80 more than clio and /MPG motorway is 27ish when u thrash it goes down alot coz very very high revving, the CTR chassis is actually very firm and good hence no traction control,

182 most economical car to run and has speed,looks is up 2 u but i liked it hence i got 1,servicing is cheap, just hope it doesnt fall apart as its french
 

riz

ClioSport Club Member
  Jaguar XFR
oh yeah when it rains with CTR u will get used to hugging trees thats y i didnt get 1 as no traction control
 
TBH, the traction control in the 182 is pretty shite. It doesn't have a wet advantage over a CTR due to TC, it just has more wet grip than the CTR :)

However, many CTR owners have improved this by changing the rubber.
 

browno

ClioSport Club Member
I've got both an LCR and the 182, and it really depends what you want from a car as to which I would choose...
If you want more space, a solid feel and the potential for cheap power then choose the LCR. As mentioned above though, the ride is pretty shocking when you hit a pothole especially, and that front splitter is silly low - I can't get in and out of a multi-storey car park without it scraping like mad, even most lowered kerbs get a scrape out of it!!! (it's only £20 to replace, but is an annoyance) - and that's with standard suspension. It is nice and solid, and does go pretty well (although there really is nothing in it between the two - but you have to be in the right gear much more in the LCR, it's totally gutless if you catch it off boost...), but it's just a little numb to drive after the 182...

If you want something that's well equipped, subtle, nicely quick and handles sublimely, then go for the clio. It's a FAR better drive than the leon, and although the fittings feel a bit fragile, ours has been pretty good after some intial teething troubles when new. Where else do you get the combination of performance and equipment for such a low price? (it also sounds great with a proper exhaust on it!)

The only problem I have now is getting the keys to the clio - my wife won't let me near it!!
 

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  MK2 FRS
I tire of the defending the CTR, some of the rubbish posted on here is embarrasing...

In one of the posts here it talks about it being so heavy.....thats just crap, it often gets criticised for being to light which i can see. The chasis is impressive it has bags of grip, the rear end grip in the CTR is sensational with the full independent rear arms It doesnt rattle as much as the clio and sometime lacks the sensation for speed...." a disapointing experience in a CTR is a misunderstood expierence" Its also crap to say the 225 engine is dull, it just isnt...

I dont mind reasonable critiquing of cars. Like I said, most people have chosen the clio, hence the playing up of the strengths. But in all honesty, relability, retention, seating position, straightline speed, space, comfort, the clio is bottom in them all..... now havent seen any posting about that. Also the clio is the least tuneable out of the three as well.
 
  182FF c/w Recaros
In defence of the CTR then.:D

Absolutely loved the whole gearbox/stick layout, feel. Just felt so right the way it was positioned. Best i've ever experienced. If it wasn't for the steering i'd had said fook the 182 i'm getting a Type R.:approve:
 
  Nissan 350Z
I tire of the defending the CTR, some of the rubbish posted on here is embarrasing...

In one of the posts here it talks about it being so heavy.....thats just crap, it often gets criticised for being to light which i can see. The chasis is impressive it has bags of grip, the rear end grip in the CTR is sensational with the full independent rear arms It doesnt rattle as much as the clio and sometime lacks the sensation for speed...." a disapointing experience in a CTR is a misunderstood expierence" Its also crap to say the 225 engine is dull, it just isnt...

I dont mind reasonable critiquing of cars. Like I said, most people have chosen the clio, hence the playing up of the strengths. But in all honesty, relability, retention, seating position, straightline speed, space, comfort, the clio is bottom in them all..... now havent seen any posting about that. Also the clio is the least tuneable out of the three as well.

The CTR is over 1200 kg. That IS heavy :p (in fact the 197 is about the same weight, look what people say about that - yes thats right, its heavy, but nobody argues with that).

The chassis is competent, but dull.

And the 1.8T engines ARE dull sounding engines, i've been in enough to know this.

Granted, the clio has its flaws as you point out, but nothings perfect.

If you dont like people having differing opinions, thats just tough shite really innit :D
 
  Renault Clio 172 Ph2
never driven a lcr. However between 172/182 and ctr i can comment as I have owned all. If i had the cash, i'd buy a decent ctr at the end of the day, though a trophy would be running it very close. Both good cars either way, and your enjoy whichever you go for. My general experience is, ctr is a bit quicker, but i have always found the clio easier to drive fast down a twisty road. I always found the ctr a little bit skatey, but all the same good. Only major bugbear I had with civic was the potenzas in the damp/wet, the traction is poor. Good in dry though.
 
  BMW M3
yeah depends what your after.

Looks - 182 wins hand down - the CTR are really starting to look dated now. Cupras are a bit too chunky and nothign special, they can quite easily blend in with a standard focus.

Performance - Nothing in it but the Clio and CTR are more fun.

Equipment - 182 wins this one, the CTR can sort of match it but it is pathetically overpriced to even do so.

Price wise the CTR will hol dits value the best follwed by the clio, Cupras just arent sort after enough so it will hurt your pocket.

Overall - Clio every time for me. Certainly not the Cupra.
 
  Honda Civic Type R
pbirkett - you got 2 things wrong. first is that i never said it constantly understeers. however, when pushing hard it round a long tightening corner on the limit, eventually you will understeer in any fwd car. but it's got so much grip so it doesn't "constantly" do it. not sure how you twisted those words.

second is the engine note. maybe you were in a crap one coz i've never heard anyone say the sound of the engine is anything other than pure petrolheaded delight. (especially when vtecing)

yes it is crap in the wet, yes the steering is poor, and yes it's not as fun handling as a clio.

my mates 172 cup is crap in the wet too but i hear the ones with the exalto's are very good. (supposed to be one of the best tyres around)

oh, and no it is not heavy, no the gearing isn't too short, and no you probably haven't driven it properly. like i said before, it justs takes longer to learn how to drive fast than a clio. that's what makes the clio such a fantastic car.

From my experience of driving a clio, although i loved it, i just missed my power surge of the vtec, i missed the gearbox which is flawless, and i missed the sound. so much character in that car. clio has too but i preferred the ctr.
 
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yeah depends what your after.

Looks - 182 wins hand down - the CTR are really starting to look dated now. Cupras are a bit too chunky and nothign special, they can quite easily blend in with a standard focus.

Performance - Nothing in it but the Clio and CTR are more fun.

Equipment - 182 wins this one, the CTR can sort of match it but it is pathetically overpriced to even do so.

Price wise the CTR will hol dits value the best follwed by the clio, Cupras just arent sort after enough so it will hurt your pocket.

Overall - Clio every time for me. Certainly not the Cupra.

Looks is personal opinion of course but i would rate LCR much nicer looking than the clio. Clio looks ordinary and to the uneducated eye it is hard to seperate the sports from the 1.2 models:eek: ;)
LCR on the other hand is very aggressive, low front splitter, 18'' wheels and big brembo brakes/discs!
Equipment? Are you mad? LCR again, 18''wheels/brembos/climate/recaro/trip comp/18'' spare wheel. An engine that can be tuned to 350bhp without uprating anything! Again a turbo that can be chipped to 275bhp for the sake of £500! A solid VAG build quality, the list goes on mate:approve: ;)

Performance...Agreed all very close to 100 but as soon as clio reaches for top gear the LCR/CTR definitely excel and will be off in the distance. The LCR will hit top speed 1st out of the 3 and that will be off or nudging the 160mph clock!

Price wise....Having been able to get LCR's for around £16000 brand new, a 3 yr old example still fetches £10k
How much does a cliosport fetch at 3 yrs old? About £6500

Overall...Your obviously overly clio biased, why clio everytime? When the only thing that it beats the LCR on is hurtling around bends and twisty roads;)

As to CTR, equipment level is shocking, no aircon as standard which is bad enough but having no front fogs either really takes the piss, but in your eyes mate you rated CTR equipment over LCR :S Were you drunk when you wrote your post;)

Me i personally love the LCR as you can probably tell lol;)
LCR.jpg
 
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I was also looking at changing my 172 for a LCR but was worried that a chunk would come off the values when the new Cupra comes out at the end of the year.

For a family car, they are pretty hard to match IMHO.
 
Not if you already buy a used example buddy. You can pick up early 225 cars for around 10-11k, or even the 210 models at 9-10k and im sure they wont depreciate that much in the future as the big depreciation drop has already happened! From now on it is very steady and cars like the LCR for example wont drop too much, they remain fairly steady:) But i suppose it would be exactly the same for clio/civic if you were to buy 2nd hand.

Dont get me wrong the clio is a much more fun car and would definitely be my choice if i were a track monster but for everyday to day driving, build quality/reliability, potential for tuning etc, the other 2 cars are better!;)

To get a more balanced opinion, you should have come on here and asked LCR/CTR comparisons, went on the CTR site and asked LCR/Clio comparisons and then the same on the SEAT site CTR/Clio comparisons!

Only real way of getting a total 100% unbiased view imo:)
 
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