Attempting clutch on 172, advice needed!!

[henry____rs]

G'day all,

My 172 clutch is at 200,000km, and starting to show signs of dying. You can depress the clutch fully and the clutch is still slightly engaged, and if you have it in first, it will start creeping forward, and reverse is impossible to get into without turning the car off and back on! It's on the original cable and adjuster to my knowledge too, however putting a few washers on the cable hasn't seemed to improve it at all, so that's what makes me think it's the clutch (unless someone has other advice? It's very heavy too.)

I'm also from Australia, so parts are hard to come by, or have pretty lengthy wait times, so going to try and order everything in one go, however I have some questions

1. Is it a particularly hard job? I mean probably is, the most I've ever delved into drivetrain stuff is replacing the diff on an MX5, shadowed a friend taking his engine out of his Subaru, and the offside shaft of my 172. Granted I imagine it will be off the road for a few days minimum?

2. Is the flywheel for these single or dual mass? And if the former, is it worth getting machined? And if so, can you reuse the flywheel bolts or are they torque-to-yield?

3. What's the general break in period for the clutches on these? 500ish km of around town driving I imagine?

4. Is it worth dropping the subframe completely or is it possible to just get away with leaning it on one side?

And 5, what's the best way of aligning the clutch to the input shaft? I've read there is no clutch alignment tool available for these!

Cheers for anyone that read this far😅 hope you guys can be of great help!

 

[JamesBryan]

Fairly easy if you work methodically with a mate. If you have access to a ramp you could probably have it done in a day or certainly a weekend.

Can just lower the subframe on one side or drop the lot and do arb and rack bushes while you're there.

Flywheel is single mass/one piece. Not really worth machining but you could clean it up a bit with a scotch brite pad or similar. Flywheel bolts are one time use really, loctited and torqued to 50+Nm.

Just drive normally to bed the clutch in, nothing major.

Some clutch kits come with a plastic alignment tool, the OEM Valeo one does/did anyway. Or you can get one of those adjustable alignment tools which clamp the disc to the pressure plate and just line it up centrally with the plate face.

 

[hopgop1]

Decent guide here you can read if you're a full member. Not used it myself, but seems quite thorough.

https://cliosport.net/threads/172-182-gearbox-change-clutch.258911/

 

[Robbie Corbett]

When was the last time the cam and aux belts were changed?

The reason I ask is that I found it infinitely easier to remove the whole engine to do belts and clutch both in one hit rather than struggling to do either with enginein the car.

Check out Renault Parts Direct - they are a very good source of genuine parts in the UK, even if they end up being too expensive to ship they still end up being a good reference for part numbers which you could take to a more local dealer.

I think (might be wildly wrong here) that the box was used in a few Nissans too - wonder if Nissan parts are easier to order for you?

I am happy with the Valeo clutch I fitted a while back. I also fitted a new Renault clutch cable (made a world of difference). Its worth getting the correct grade of transmission fluid (oem was ELF) while you are ordering parts.

I would personally take a view on the flywheel once you have the clutch off. Good time to inspect crank main seal too. If there are chatter marks, or grooves that you can feel then have it faced. Mine was in good shape at 120k (km) on the original clutch.

As James said, I would fit new bolts. Believe the Renault ones come with loctite on already.

Its also not a terrible time to install a new shifter bush (gearbox end) - they wear badly and are very cheap.

Run-in.. Just be gentle for 100km, just keep clutch slip to an absolute minimum, ie) don't let your Mrs drive it for the first few days.

Good luck - post some pictures up when you get time!

 

[henry____rs]

Fairly easy if you work methodically with a mate. If you have access to a ramp you could probably have it done in a day or certainly a weekend.

Can just lower the subframe on one side or drop the lot and do arb and rack bushes while you're there.

Only got axle stands but that should do I imagine, is is possible to drop the subframe without taking the steering rack with it? I hear anything needing the removal of the rack is a proper pain of a job

Some clutch kits come with a plastic alignment tool, the OEM Valeo one does/did anyway. Or you can get one of those adjustable alignment tools which clamp the disc to the pressure plate and just line it up centrally with the plate face

I see, the ones we have in Australia are either $400 for a valeo, $250 for a clutch pro (Australian clutch industries, mate used one on his Elantra and seemed to be pretty good) or $700 for an excedy, all in Aus $ of course

Decent guide here you can read if you're a full member. Not used it myself, but seems quite thorough.

https://cliosport.net/threads/172-182-gearbox-change-clutch.258911/

Might join purely for the guide!

When was the last time the cam and aux belts were changed?

The reason I ask is that I found it infinitely easier to remove the whole engine to do belts and clutch both in one hit rather than struggling to do either with engine in the car.

It's due for an aux belt in less than 5000km but I've just refreshed all the fluids prior and would rather not have to do it again! Nah but nothing else really needing doing on it bar clutch for now tbh

I would personally take a view on the flywheel once you have the clutch off. Good time to inspect crank main seal too. If there are chatter marks, or grooves that you can feel then have it faced. Mine was in good shape at 120k (km) on the original clutch.

As James said, I would fit new bolts. Believe the Renault ones come with loctite on already.

Its also not a terrible time to install a new shifter bush (gearbox end) - they wear badly and are very cheap.

Would ARP bolts do the job? I see they are sold for a reasonable amount. I've only been driving it with the clutch like this for probably 5-600km on motorways and trying to avoid stop/start as much as I can so hopefully flywheel is all good!

Do you happen to have a part number for the bottom bush?

 

[JamesBryan]

Only got axle stands but that should do I imagine, is is possible to drop the subframe without taking the steering rack with it? I hear anything needing the removal of the rack is a proper pain of a job

You could do and bungee strap it up in position if you didn't fancy removing it.

If you're just dropping the subframe on one side, then you wouldn't need to do that.

 

[olotrab]

Something has happened to my clutch at only 62,000km so I am about to do this job too. Changed the belts only about two months ago and plan to do it with the engine in place. The subframe comes off pretty easily you just have to take 4 bolts out that connect to the steering rack and lower the frame without the rack.

 

[olotrab]

Something has happened to my clutch at only 62,000km so I am about to do this job too. Changed the belts only about two months ago and plan to do it with the engine in place. The subframe comes off pretty easily you just have to take 4 bolts out that connect to the steering rack and lower the frame without the rack.

 

[Martin_172]

G'day all,

My 172 clutch is at 200,000km, and starting to show signs of dying. You can depress the clutch fully and the clutch is still slightly engaged, and if you have it in first, it will start creeping forward, and reverse is impossible to get into without turning the car off and back on! It's on the original cable and adjuster to my knowledge too, however putting a few washers on the cable hasn't seemed to improve it at all, so that's what makes me think it's the clutch (unless someone has other advice? It's very heavy too.)

I'm also from Australia, so parts are hard to come by, or have pretty lengthy wait times, so going to try and order everything in one go, however I have some questions

1. Is it a particularly hard job? I mean probably is, the most I've ever delved into drivetrain stuff is replacing the diff on an MX5, shadowed a friend taking his engine out of his Subaru, and the offside shaft of my 172. Granted I imagine it will be off the road for a few days minimum?

Its not a bad job if you have experience doing similar types of jobs, as said above, just work thought it a step at a time, remember drain the gearbox oil before you remove the passengers side drive shaft as it will empty its self!!

If your doing it on the deck in your garage, give yourself 2 or 3 days, its a full shift really on a ramp or if you have done one before - Also - mark the position of the gear linkage before you split it at the box to save having to set it up again.

2. Is the flywheel for these single or dual mass? And if the former, is it worth getting machined? And if so, can you reuse the flywheel bolts or are they torque-to-yield?

Single, I've never had them machined and always re used flywheel bolts but its good practice!

3. What's the general break in period for the clutches on these? 500ish km of around town driving I imagine?

Just dont ride the clutch or launch it hard for the first few hundred miles (or forever lol) to let it bed in nicely.

4. Is it worth dropping the subframe completely or is it possible to just get away with leaning it on one side?

Ive done it just dropping it at one side but its always a bit of a faff about, personally id just fully drop the subframe, unbolt the rack from the subframe (worth changing the rack bushes while your there) and let the rack hang. Being honest now i prefer just pulling the engine and box now and doing it all out the car, especially if the car is due its belts - But ive done enough of them now that its not a bad job to pull the engine.

And 5, what's the best way of aligning the clutch to the input shaft? I've read there is no clutch alignment tool available for these!

Cheers for anyone that read this far😅 hope you guys can be of great help!

As said above genuine clutches come with a tool but i use a cheap laser clutch alignment tool and its spot on
Laser Tools 2646 Clutch Alignment Tool - Universal

 

[mgoode180566]

I did this in the summer ( not actually the clutch but the release bearing, it failed prematurely ) and the biggest pain was the removal of the subframe bolts as they arent captive and tend to spin in the chassis legs, held in by steel clips which snap off. I cut the bolts out with a cutting disc and replaced with the correct grade. Made up a tool from a ring spanner that would fit over the nut in the chassis leg, the angle is very tight.

 

[olotrab]

Got my gearbox off without too much trouble, but you don't need to remove the bumper or the hub,brakes etc. on the right. I just took the bottom two nuts off the lower ball joint to wishbone, disconnected the axle support from the engine and swung the hub out from the bottom. Took a few whacks with a hammer and piece of wood to slide the shaft off the gearbox.
About to reassemble, but does anyone know which way round the friction plate goes? The Renault manual says "Fit the disc (hub offset gearbox side)." Doesn't say offset towards or away from gearbox. Does the central splined part stick out towards or away from the gearbox?

 

[JamesBryan]

Got my gearbox off without too much trouble, but you don't need to remove the bumper or the hub,brakes etc. on the right. I just took the bottom two nuts off the lower ball joint to wishbone, disconnected the axle support from the engine and swung the hub out from the bottom. Took a few whacks with a hammer and piece of wood to slide the shaft off the gearbox.
About to reassemble, but does anyone know which way round the friction plate goes? The Renault manual says "Fit the disc (hub offset gearbox side)." Doesn't say offset towards or away from gearbox. Does the central splined part stick out towards or away from the gearbox?

"hub offset gearbox side"

Clue is there 😉

As in offset facing gearbox.

 

[olotrab]

OK, I took the cover plate off again and it's pretty obvious when you hold the friction plate up to the flywheel. It will only go one way.