black mk1 16v

[2 live]

plenty about mate if you look hard enough. granted not williams, but as u rightly say, meg 710/714s. yes they need the dizzy machining out if you want to run the meg head. which is where the valver head comes in. few quid for headset but then its done n forgotten about. slightly smaller valves in the valver head, but have more meat for future porting etc. use the meg inlets and bobs ur uncle.

could build a 710, valver head, all new gaskets etc for less than u could buy a f4 i would imagine. doesnt ness have to have the meg valves etc. but if your doing it may as well do it right. buy cheap, buy twice usually.

theres 1 engine on ebay for £300...f4r which is more than 1/2 the price of the rest. there is 1 f7r , with box, struts , shafts etc etc for 500.



and as iv said above...swings and roundabouts......how many times do i have to say that?? lol

easier is not always best, newer is not always best. and as iv said countless times...PERSONALLY i would go the f7r route.

 

[sideways danny]

meg F7R......sod distributors, WHAT A BACKWARDS STEP!!!!!!!

F4R, better numbers, better aftermarket support (shocking for a newer engine) easier to work on

 

[wilky19]

Or maybe, just maybe, he'd sooner have a newer, more economical, more reliable, cheaper, more powerful (AS STANDARD) engine in the first place?

these are the exact reasons why i choose to go down this route

The wiring is p**s easy, Wilky could be an electrician for all we know in which case he'll have the loom built in roughly 4 minutes. ...

F7 might be easier yes, but easier certainly isnt always better.

i am not electrician but i have some commons sense(i think) the wiring is daunting but with peoples help i will get through it

i see it as why would i use older technology when i can i use new better technology. i can have my cake and eat it

 

[Matteh]

could build a 710, valver head, all new gaskets etc for less than u could buy a f4 i would imagine. doesnt ness have to have the meg valves etc. but if your doing it may as well do it right. buy cheap, buy twice usually.

I've seen RR results of these engines, and they're not good

 

[wookie]

i chose the f7r so i still fit within the rules for the events i do, if the car was a road toy id have prob put the f4r in, altho even saying that, the power figures do seem very hit or miss for a standard production engine, and its a pig ugly lump!

And from my experience, not just talking renault engines here, i would never dream of putting cams as small as 270's in, if your going to cam an engine, cam it properly

And lastly i have to giggle at the 170bhp, f7r needs cams etc to make that blah blah...,my standard 1.6 civic makes that with nothing more than a filter hehe ( right thats a honda snobbery out the way, back to reality)

Im looking forward to what mine makes as its standard but on an aftermarket ecu, none of this £30 chip rubbish.

 

[wilky19]

can i ask i people who want to debate the pro and cons of f4 vs f7 could they start a thread and do it in there.

 

[wookie]

I've seen RR results of these engines, and they're not good

Agreed, i dont understand why you would remove a head with nice big valves with an old one with little valves.

My mate is running a megane engine in his renault 5, standard with mega squirt on it, all very 'that'll work' and it made 165bhp on the rollers with good torque and pulls real hard from nothing, then he bolted on a turbo and ruined it lol

 

[jay s]

LOL at this thread

foxy, our cars were pretty even when at brands but you seem to be forgetting your car was/is quite a bit lighter than mine (830kg vs 900kg on the day?) so id expect it to give me problems if not pull on me my spec on the day was , F7R, piper 270 cams ( 264/256 dur 10.4/9.9 lift ) supersprint, exh etc NO headwork at the time , remap to suit, 177bhp 139lb/ft. getting an F7R to F4R power is cheap nowadays when i did it 5 years ago not so cheap lol . Anyway you need to beat 13.9 @100mph to be officially quicker:rasp:

 

[jay s]

i chose the f7r so i still fit within the rules for the events i do, if the car was a road toy id have prob put the f4r in, altho even saying that, the power figures do seem very hit or miss for a standard production engine, and its a pig ugly lump!

And from my experience, not just talking renault engines here, i would never dream of putting cams as small as 270's in, if your going to cam an engine, cam it properly

And lastly i have to giggle at the 170bhp, f7r needs cams etc to make that blah blah...,my standard 1.6 civic makes that with nothing more than a filter hehe ( right thats a honda snobbery out the way, back to reality)

Im looking forward to what mine makes as its standard but on an aftermarket ecu, none of this £30 chip rubbish.

lacks torque

 

[AdamAnderton]

Lol woundered how you had got to 3 pages so quick

 

[wilky19]

Lol woundered how you had got to 3 pages so quick

so did i when i got back from work last night

 

[VIICarCare]

wow, never seen one in black b4! utter sexiness that! soo shiny

 

[wilky19]

how the car stands at the moment. looking sorry for its self

i'm still waiting back on news off a lump with pretty much everything i need but not heard anything of the person for a while. so still searching in case they don't get back to me

 

[wilky19]

just to show i'm actually doing something with this project ive been on a spending spree and spent most of this month wages.

purchases include

a ph1 172 engine
soft pedal kit
engine stand
172 ph1 radiator and rad
172 coil pack
leads
full aux set up
172ph1 fuel rail
172 3x injectors
172 ph1 coolant hoses
ph2 valver loom
172 starter motor

pics of all when they arrive

when all this arrives there won't me to much left that i'll need.

 

[wilky19]

did some more to the car on Saturday

started out by removing the fuel rail and the injectors as well as most of the loom. (sorry no pic of all this)

then decided to strip more off the car. To did this i need to strip off most of the front end.

once the bonnet and bumper was off i need to remove the slam panel, to do this the the safety catch for the bonnet needed to be removed. Normally people just cut it, but i didn't want to do this because i want to keep the catch and it does my nut it when its not there. so out came the power tools the rivet was swiftly drilled out.

now the slam panel can come off ready for the stripping to begin. i also noticed that the front of the subframe looked a little rusty.

i will have to investigate this a bit more when the bay is empty. it looks like the radiator is pretty new, so i think the previous radiator was leaking onto it for some time

out came the radiator

i removed the alternator which looks pretty new, seller did say it had been replaced within the last year.
then removed all the bracketing for alternator.
(forgot to take pic of this)

the inlet manifold was then finally accessible enough to remove. can't imagine removing the inlet without having to strip most of the aux set-up off.

by this time the light was starting to fade, so I slapped the bonnet, bumper and wheels back on then packed up.
but when putting the wheels back on i left the spacers off and found the 172 wheels rub slightly on the strut and can see marks under the arches from were they were scrubbing.

more was planned for sunday but snow stopped play so i spent some time getting the looms ready for splicing together. update on that tomorrow

 

[williams-rep]

Just out of interest how much have you spent so far in purchasing items for the conversion ? I'm considering doing it also as no one in Northern Ireland seems to have done it. pm me the figures if you wish.

 

[wilky19]

more than i wanted, so much sometimes i think i should have stuck to mk1 engine but about 1/3 of the cost is for service items and thing that need to be done and/or are easier to do whilst the engine is out.
i.e. cambelt, depahser pully, water pump and all the other service bits/fluids

but hey ho should be worth it in the end

 

[AdamAnderton]

Just out of interest how much have you spent so far in purchasing items for the conversion ? I'm considering doing it also as no one in Northern Ireland seems to have done it. pm me the figures if you wish.

Im doing the same conversion and ive spent about £2500 ish thats buying the car, 172 engine, williams fk coilovers and all the stuff for 172 widetrack new pads and mainly everthing else is new too. Id have to say its upto you how far you want to go with it and how much money you want to spend on it but id say defo worth it in the end

more than i wanted, so much sometimes i think i should have stuck to mk1 engine but about 1/3 of the cost is for service items and thing that need to be done and/or are easier to do whilst the engine is out.
i.e. cambelt, depahser pully, water pump and all the other service bits/fluids

but hey ho should be worth it in the end

Yep will defo be worth it mate
can see a little progress is being done
wots the time scale you think

 

[wilky19]

Yep will defo be worth it mate
can see a little progress is being done
wots the time scale you think

more has been done just not massively pic worthy. the engine is ready to be ripped out, just need to get hold of a crane.
main thing that is holding me back at the moment is cash flow. only thing left to buy now are a clutch, gaskets and fluids.

i potentially have 2 weeks off soon so want to do most of it done and have the engine in at the end of those 2 weeks which should be achievable. might have to go a bit more into the overdraft to buy the clutch.

 

[wilky19]

the bay is finally fully stripped now bar the lump and gearbox. just need to get my hands on a crane then it can come out.

i also have finished the loom. pics of this will be up tommorrow.

 

[wilky19]

did some work on the new lump today ready for some new bits with the next few days.

firstly whipped the lower inlet off.

then prepared the block for a lick of paint. as you can see it need it

after a lick of hammerite

whilst the hammerite was i have the new willy gearbox strap a clean up and lick of paint

also when getting ready to take the cover i noticed one is cracked/missing a bit.so something else to add to the list

when all this dried i took the cambelt covers off ready for the new belt and de-phaser, I also took the water pump off ready for a new one.

pics of the loom later when i get some better pick all the pics i took earlier where uter dogshit

 

[wilky19]

i meant to post these ages a go but only just found my camera again

pic all the stuff bought for the conversion

172 ph1 injectors and fuel rail

172 fad and fan

172 exhaust manifold

172 top mount and coilpack

172 ph1 wiring loom

172 leads there no really inkeeping with the colour scheme i'm going with but they'll do for now

samco induction bend

172 ph1 ecu

a new set of valver dials because my mileage reset button is fucked

 

[wilky19]

also meant to post this ages ago

I stripped the auxiliary stuff off the block. i wont be using the 172 auxiliary set up because of the air con pump and the ridiculous price for the aux kit on the 172. i will be using the 172 alternator because of its high output and the 172 power-steering pump.

before

after

it looks so bare and make the block look small

the box of all the it. it weighs close to a tone most of the weight being the air con pump

The alternator would come away from the bracket the bolt it pivots on seem to be stuck. so ill have to get creartive to sort it out :twisted:

 

[AdamAnderton]

Looking good mate, so wot is the new colour scheme

 

[wilky19]

it only going to be the inlet and maybe some of the pulley. i might no even do it yet

but if i do it, its going to be orange. On the inlet I'm going to do it orange with black lettering.

i think of getting some of the willy stuff for the interior to have a slight blue scheme on the inside

 

[AdamAnderton]

Cool sounds good iirc jord and whiteley have a few williams things for the inside belts clocks etc..

 

[wilky19]

i'll be get the willy stuff at a later date.

just want to get it up and running soon. only got a few more thing to buy.

 

[AdamAnderton]

Wot other things you got to get

 

[wilky19]

ecu unlocked and a clutch. then all the fluids. and all the random stuff to get the pas to work.

the brakes look like they could do with changing soon aswell

 

[AdamAnderton]

A halford trade card could help if you could get hold of one for the fluids and stuff, are you not doing 172 widerack, for some reason i thought you where

 

[wilky19]

nah not yet i might do i Williams widetrack with 172 brakes but that won't be for a while.

i tried conning halfrauds out of a trade card, it was all going so well till the manager walked over and asked for a proper proof of being in the trade other than oilly hands.

 

[jamie rigby]

awesome progress!

 

[Mark One]

something I've been wondering for a while. These F4R conversions are all using a 172 Rad. Why? Could you not stick with the valver Rad and same the subframe mod?

 

[f0xy]

Yeah, but its like half the thickness and not as wide, plus the 172 radiator fan wont fit onto it as far as I know, its the wrong shape. 172 does not use the coolant temp switch like the valver rad, and has a different wiring setup - it could be made to work but its easier to just drop the 172 rad in place

 

[sideways danny]

bottom hose is on the opposite side of the rad, so it's less complicated if you want to use standard hoses

 

[Mark One]

i see. Makes sense now.

 

[wilky19]

the engine has now had a new cam belt kit fitted along with a new dephaser pully.

got to say a big thanks to Jord(f0xy) and Adam(AdamAnderton) for coming round and doing it for me. it was one of those job that i didn't want to attempt without supervision plus i didn't have the tools for the f4r.

so again thanks jord and adam

 

[wilky19]

today was d-day for the valver engine to come out. this turned out to be relatively easy seeing I had most of the prep work done. it just needed the mounts undoing.

how it started the day

i then popped under and undid the dogbone mount.

the crane was then manoeuvred into position. engine strapped up ready to take the strain.

i then undid the rest of the mounts when i had take the weight of the engine using the crane.
once undone it was time to come out

empty bay

i then wheeled it into the garage so i can split it from the gearbox. then brake it up ready to be weighed in.

i then whipped the top mount off because i need to use the 172 one for the conversion.

the bay was then power washed. this took best part of the afternoon to get all the crud and s**t out of there

 

[f0xy]

Good work - 172 going in tomorrow? lol

 

[wilky19]

Good work - 172 going in tomorrow? lol

can do but it'll have to come back out on Monday lol

i aiming for it to be in by next saturday. the main thing thats stopping it going in tomorrow is the clutch and i want to paint the gearbox and a few other bits.

also thinking/planning how i'm going to rub my pas line.