Breaking cover......*AG content from page 45*

[Cub.]

You hero you.

Much excite. X

 

[NorthloopCup]

You hero you.

Much excite. X

I wasn't when it popped and backfired in the garage! Lol

 

[Cub.]

I wasn't when it popped and backfired in the garage! Lol

New pants time I suspect. 😂

 

[NorthloopCup]

New pants time I suspect. 😂

Well the dog tried to make a bid for freedom but the door was shut! Spaniel + one eye + loud pop = spaniel wondering what the f**k is going on! Lol!

 

[not normal dan]

Well the dog tried to make a bid for freedom but the door was shut! Spaniel + one eye + loud pop = spaniel wondering what the f**k is going on! Lol!

Haha that dog!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Haha that dog!

I know mate. I felt proper guilty afterwards! Lol

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Lol missed the video then I take it??

Holy funking moly, I did not see the video!

Wooo, good times. Now get it mapped so we can see what's what!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Holy funking moly, I did not see the video!

Wooo, good times. Now get it mapped so we can see what's what!

How did you miss it?! Flol!!

There's a lot of stuff I want to check before it goes anywhere for mapping so that won't be happening for a bit. Stuff like oil pressure, sensors getting the correct readings etc all need to be thoroughly checked over. It's got to be right mate.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Ok so had another bit of a play with the cup today. It was time to check the oil pressure and sensors etc. Also had a good chance to check for any leaks - of which there were none! Happy days.

So the good news is I've got a nice 111psi of cold oil pressure! Lol! That's with the oil at 8 degrees C, but the pressure does drop once it's got some heat in it. At 50.1 degrees C I'm seeing a healthy 69-70psi, so I anticipate this will drop further, but only to about 2bar. Trust me, for an f4r engine, that's miraculous. It also proves that the hard work and development done by myself and a few others has been worthwhile!!

So this is why it's not going to be running on a 172 cup cal file anymore

The engine was running when this was taken, and yes, it's f**king glowing! Lol! Bit lean methinks. Does look good though!!

I've done a few more videos of it all running as well, so here's a few!
A bit of a burble:

Enjoy!
More to come.

 

[NorthloopCup]

And here's the final 2 videos:

A bit of induction noise at idle:
And a bit of a tickle:
Safe to say, it revs like a f**king bike, although it's not picked up so well in the video. Trust me though, it's extremely responsive!

Enjoy!

More to come!!

 

[Chambers_RS]

Sounds awesome :up: can certainly tell its gunna rev up quickly!
Is that where your oil pressure gauge is staying? How do you rate that SPA gauge, I'm looking to get some sort of oil monitoring device lol.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Sounds awesome :up: can certainly tell its gunna rev up quickly!
Is that where your oil pressure gauge is staying? How do you rate that SPA gauge, I'm looking to get some sort of oil monitoring device lol.

Doesn't it just! Lol! The induction noise sounds a bit itb-ish as well.

It'll not be staying in the engine bay mate! Flol! Having seen it in action today, I'm very impressed with it. You can choose to have it illuminated Amber as well to suit the standard dash illumination.

 

[Chambers_RS]

Doesn't it just! Lol! The induction noise sounds a bit itb-ish as well.

It'll not be staying in the engine bay mate! Flol! Having seen it in action today, I'm very impressed with it. You can choose to have it illuminated Amber as well to suit the standard dash illumination.

Cool. I guess the sender for the temp can run in the sump? I'm running a thermostatic sandwich plate so couldn't take the temp from there lol.

 

[rich83]

Awesome...she runs I know it's un-mapped but nice bit of lump to that idle I think you should make 220+ with those cams for sure.
But I certainly wish you more luck than I had with mine; 1 year with 10k miles and 2 track days and the rings are shot! So I give up and am not thinking of using R3 cams now even if you make more than 230!! My F4R days are behind me now as I don't think a forged engine is right for daily use any more.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Cool. I guess the sender for the temp can run in the sump? I'm running a thermostatic sandwich plate so couldn't take the temp from there lol.

Tee into the oil pressure switch mate and follow my lead for the pressure sensor fitment.

Awesome...she runs :smile: I know it's un-mapped but nice bit of lump to that idle :smile: I think you should make 220+ with those cams for sure.
But I certainly wish you more luck than I had with mine; 1 year with 10k miles and 2 track days and the rings are shot! So I give up and am not thinking of using R3 cams now even if you make more than 230!! My F4R days are behind me now as I don't think a forged engine is right for daily use any more.

Ain't it just mate! Lol! Gutted for you that yours is knackered though mate. That's the issue with forged stuff and wossners(?) unfortunately. My rings only cost £12 per piston! Lol! I strongly doubt it'll do 10k though tbf. Not in my lifetime. 😂

 

[rich83]

Yeah forgies for a 2nd car only now as far as I'm concerned, and a garage wouldn't go amiss either to wrap it up over night!
I was perhaps a bit naive to think what was essentially a race engine would do me multiple years starting most days inc winter temps!! Live and learn!

Pistons were PEC who I generally dislike due to their shitty rods, but the pistons are made by Supertech so should be decent. It was clearly wearing out but the nail in the coffin was I think a failed injector which I think has bore washed cyl3 because it's just eating oil now. I think I'd have made it OK to the end the year otherwise without the issue because seal um up with some a drop of oil down the plug hole and they make 235psi! It was using 1L 800-1000 miles, since the issue though I've done 3.5L in a week and 1 track day!!

Rings I guess are cheap, but a years worth of slappage and certainly a duff cyl3 = re-bore before re-hone. And that = new 83mm pistons and best part of £1500-2000 later.. 😧
So I said f**k it and bought a K20 to stick in there instead :dizzy:

 

[NorthloopCup]

Yeah forgies for a 2nd car only now as far as I'm concerned, and a garage wouldn't go amiss either to wrap it up over night!
I was perhaps a bit naive to think what was essentially a race engine would do me multiple years starting most days inc winter temps!! Live and learn!

Pistons were PEC who I generally dislike due to their shitty rods, but the pistons are made by Supertech so should be decent. It was clearly wearing out but the nail in the coffin was I think a failed injector which I think has bore washed cyl3 because it's just eating oil now. I think I'd have made it OK to the end the year otherwise without the issue because seal um up with some a drop of oil down the plug hole and they make 235psi! It was using 1L 800-1000 miles, since the issue though I've done 3.5L in a week and 1 track day!!

Rings I guess are cheap, but a years worth of slappage and certainly a duff cyl3 = re-bore before re-hone. And that = new 83mm pistons and best part of £1500-2000 later.. 😧
So I said f**k it and bought a K20 to stick in there instead :dizzy:

My oil temps were 8 degrees before I started it up mate, and that was in a garage! Lol! These sorts of engines like to be warmed up before they're driven, which isn't something you can really do on a daily driver.

Ouch at 3.5ltrs in a week as well! That's almost a complete oil change!!

K20 sounds good though!

 

[rich83]

Yeah if you can't beat them - join them!! only sod driving a Civic so making a French version !! Engine arrives tomorrow and got a lsd box already so should have an idea if it'll fit :tongueclosed:
Long term plan will be medium to big for it of course, but always OEM cast style pistons! You can however use JDM FD2 ones which are 11.7:1, so can do a high enough CR build for pump fuel eventually anyway. But ITB's and cams make big numbers anyway on them.

Yeah I was starting at 1/2degs at times :fearscream: I thought about buying a DEFA heater for the F4R, looked a good setup......probably should have done! Even with your part time use might be worth looking at one, just stick it on the night before you know you'll use it kind of thing.

Anyway I'll whip the plugs out again this weekend and see if the replaced injector has at least stopped the plug from blacking out (carbon foul not oil). I changed the coil initially thinking most likely reason, however needed to do 300 miles for work the next day and well it wasn't the coil! So have guessed it was the injector and have changed that, but if the yet another plug is screwed again only other possibility is maybe cracked ring :rage: Will be more pissed if it is that tbh.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Yeah if you can't beat them - join them!! only sod driving a Civic so making a French version :wink:!! Engine arrives tomorrow and got a lsd box already so should have an idea if it'll fit :tongueclosed:
Long term plan will be medium to big for it of course, but always OEM cast style pistons! You can however use JDM FD2 ones which are 11.7:1, so can do a high enough CR build for pump fuel eventually anyway. But ITB's and cams make big numbers anyway on them.

Yeah I was starting at 1/2degs at times :fearscream: I thought about buying a DEFA heater for the F4R, looked a good setup......probably should have done! Even with your part time use might be worth looking at one, just stick it on the night before you know you'll use it kind of thing.

Anyway I'll whip the plugs out again this weekend and see if the replaced injector has at least stopped the plug from blacking out (carbon foul not oil). I changed the coil initially thinking most likely reason, however needed to do 300 miles for work the next day and well it wasn't the coil! So have guessed it was the injector and have changed that, but if the yet another plug is screwed again only other possibility is maybe cracked ring :rage: Will be more pissed if it is that tbh.

I think it'll fit, but it will be a tight fit! What you doing about the management side of things? You need to be getting a project thread up for this!!

I've just looked at those DEFA heaters and they're only warming the coolant, so I'm not sure what sort of benefit if see from one of them tbh, unless some of the radiant heat is going to warm up the oil as well.

What injectors are you on? Was it the R3/225 items?

 

[rich83]

Yep exactly that the radiant heat as it's cycled through the head.
You could also get an oil pan heater (the Yanks seemed to favour Wolverine ones)...I did a fair bit of research and both seemed like a great idea. I tell you me and hindsight don't get on too well! 😂

Yep R3/225 injectors. If it was faulty the replacement should now have stopped the plug from fouling, although knowing my luck it'll oil foul now and I'll never know! I bought 2 new ones to keep another as a spare too ensive:

My concerns for install are height and depth. Depth is fixed with Titan ITB's , height not so easy but in my favour I guess the F4R is a long stroke and of course runs the inlet over the top - so should imply a fair depth to the bay? So I'm hoping no E92 M3 power bulges need grace my bonnet!
Management, the car is on a standalone which is integrated into the cars CAN already, so in theory it's just a bunch on engine control sensors that will change. However SC told me a I had grossly oversimplified things with that analogy ! Which reminds me I need to ring them again now they've had time to think.
I keep a thread on 197.net and on cliorsr.uk - Anymore makes me look desperate 😂

 

[Martin.]

Not been in here for a while. But what a bloody good update for me to see!

Looks incredible mate! Such an enjoyment to read your updates and see it progressing too.

Such high quality workmanship with everything you do.

Dare I ask how much the brake disc setup costs? Possible to run it with a standard caliper?

 

[Jekyll]

Wow, excellent stuff Mark.

Does sound very bikey-bodied!

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

engine definitely sounds "proper"

Can't wait to see it when you can put some more revs through it!

 

[Dan@SJM]

Ok so had another bit of a play with the cup today. It was time to check the oil pressure and sensors etc. Also had a good chance to check for any leaks - of which there were none! Happy days.

So the good news is I've got a nice 111psi of cold oil pressure! Lol! That's with the oil at 8 degrees C, but the pressure does drop once it's got some heat in it. At 50.1 degrees C I'm seeing a healthy 69-70psi, so I anticipate this will drop further, but only to about 2bar. Trust me, for an f4r engine, that's miraculous. It also proves that the hard work and development done by myself and a few others has been worthwhile!!

So this is why it's not going to be running on a 172 cup cal file anymoreView attachment 150018The engine was running when this was taken, and yes, it's f**king glowing! Lol! Bit lean methinks. Does look good though!!

I've done a few more videos of it all running as well, so here's a few!
A bit of a burble:

Enjoy!
More to come.

Glowing most likely down to the scatter idle and having a bit too much ign r****d.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Glowing most likely down to the scatter idle and having a bit too much ign r****d.

I'm glad you've come in here! I'd forgotten that it's on 225 injectors tbh, so combined with a cup map I'm amazed it runs as good as it does. :up:

 

[Dan@SJM]

Wow I'm surprised it even runs!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Wow I'm surprised it even runs!

Like a beaut on cold start! Flol!! The map that's on there is a Grp n cam timing file, so possibly explains a bit of why it runs.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Yep exactly that the radiant heat as it's cycled through the head.
You could also get an oil pan heater (the Yanks seemed to favour Wolverine ones)...I did a fair bit of research and both seemed like a great idea. I tell you me and hindsight don't get on too well! 😂

Yep R3/225 injectors. If it was faulty the replacement should now have stopped the plug from fouling, although knowing my luck it'll oil foul now and I'll never know! I bought 2 new ones to keep another as a spare too ensive:

My concerns for install are height and depth. Depth is fixed with Titan ITB's :wink:, height not so easy but in my favour I guess the F4R is a long stroke and of course runs the inlet over the top - so should imply a fair depth to the bay? So I'm hoping no E92 M3 power bulges need grace my bonnet!
Management, the car is on a standalone which is integrated into the cars CAN already, so in theory it's just a bunch on engine control sensors that will change. However SC told me a I had grossly oversimplified things with that analogy :smiley:! Which reminds me I need to ring them again now they've had time to think.
I keep a thread on 197.net and on cliorsr.uk - Anymore makes me look desperate 😂

Here's some pistons that I've got in stock for if you decide to rebuild the f4r. They're extremely reliable and parts are readily available. Here's a pic:

Flol!!

Get a thread started on here mate!

Not been in here for a while. But what a bloody good update for me to see!

Looks incredible mate! Such an enjoyment to read your updates and see it progressing too.

Such high quality workmanship with everything you do.

Dare I ask how much the brake disc setup costs? Possible to run it with a standard caliper?

Thanks mate, and I'm pleased you like the update!!

The bell and rotor setup cost £530. 🙈

Wow, excellent stuff Mark.

Does sound very bikey-bodied!

Yeah it definitely sounds fruity! It's gonna sound f**king awesome at full chat!!

engine definitely sounds "proper"

Can't wait to see it when you can put some more revs through it!

As above mate!

 

[rich83]

What do I have to do to fit those..... mill the block into a 2 cylinder perhaps! 😂
Not liking the look of what the static CR would be either!!

 

[NorthloopCup]

What do I have to do to fit those..... mill the block into a 2 cylinder perhaps! 😂
Not liking the look of what the static CR would be either!!

Lol!! I don't even think you could machine the block to fit 2 of them, or even 1!!! That picture is of a 13ltr Scania piston that I have in my possession. Don't ask why! I just like trinkets like that!! 🙈

Your compression ratio would be somewhere around 19.0:1. 😂

 

[rich83]

oh I thought it looked like it would give a low CR, looks in the pic like a kinda dished piston crossed with a direct injection like centre to it.
Unless I assume then it is the whole circumference of the outside that is raised above the deck height to give the high CR?

Anyway the weight of that thing would probably take all the power to turn it over! More parasitic losses than a supercharger! :dizzy:

 

[NorthloopCup]

oh I thought it looked like it would give a low CR, looks in the pic like a kinda dished piston crossed with a direct injection like centre to it.
Unless I assume then it is the whole circumference of the outside that is raised above the deck height to give the high CR?

Anyway the weight of that thing would probably take all the power to turn it over! More parasitic losses than a supercharger! :dizzy:

The heads in the Scanias are flat faced, so no dish for combustion. This is all done in the bowl of the piston, where the air file mix is promoted to swirl/mix - hence the shape. It's a shame I've cleaned it up as you could originally see the spray marks from the injector nozzles.

Yeah they're not light mate that's for sure! I must be honest though, it's this stuff that makes me love my job. Scania trucks are by far, the BEST trucks on the road that I've worked on.

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

I'm ashamed to say this is the first time I've popped into this thread.

I know f**k all about engines and mechanics but even I can appreciate just how f**king epic this is!!

Top work mate!

 

[NorthloopCup]

I'm ashamed to say this is the first time I've popped into this thread.

I know f**k all about engines and mechanics but even I can appreciate just how f**king epic this is!!

Top work mate!

Nothing to be ashamed about mate!

Yeah same here tbh. It's just been lucky guesses all along the way. Lol! Thanks, though, I appreciate the kind words. :up:

 

[Sunglasses_Ron]

Nothing to be ashamed about mate!

Yeah same here tbh. It's just been lucky guesses all along the way. Lol! Thanks, though, I appreciate the kind words. :up:

You're obviously pretty handy with a spanner and we are lucky to have you as part of our team :up:

 

[Keith185]

one word, awesome
great to see all the hard work is nearing the end and its alive

 

[NorthloopCup]

You're obviously pretty handy with a spanner and we are lucky to have you as part of our team :up:

Thank you mate, I genuinely appreciate the kind words. I just try to do things right really and hopefully make things look factory fit. Usually, if it looks right, it is right.
It's also a Cs.net exclusive. :wink:

one word, awesome :smile:
great to see all the hard work is nearing the end and its alive :smile:

Cheers mate. Yeah hearing the engine running for the first time pretty much topped off what started out as a good week tbh!

 

[NorthloopCup]

I've managed to grab a bit of spare time this weekend so I decided to finish off some bits and pieces.

Started off extending the breather pipe off the gearbox gearbox to higher up on the bulkhead. Various reasons for this, but it's mainly because I don't want oil being thrown out on to the gearbox casing! The 182's have a similar setup to this, but i strongly doubt it's mounted where mine is!

Next job to tick off the list was the front section for the airbox. Started off removing the lower section that houses the filter. This leaves a dirty great big trumpet on show!!

I then made a few brackets to join the front section to the middle section.

After that was done it was time to refit.

This in turn has meant that the airbox is mounted rather solidly, so being carbon fibre and expensive, I've bought a hump hose to try and allow some flexibility between the engine and the airbox.

The list of jobs to do is decreasing substantially now and I think, all that's left to do under the bonnet is make a heat shield extension for the exhaust manifold, fit the starter heat shield, and, er, that's about it.

After that it's a case of fit the brembos and get them bled up and fit the new bigger wheel bearing stub axles that I've been in collaboration with @nath&alex on.

More to come.

 

[Jaff.]

about time you pulled your finger out!

nice to see some regular updates for a change

 

[NorthloopCup]

about time you pulled your finger out!

nice to see some regular updates for a change :tongueout:

I could say the same thing to you! Lol!

But you don't even do updates now! 🙈