Clio 172 MK1 Engine upgrade

[Overclocked]

I'm thinking of having some engine upgrades for my Clio 172 MK1 -00 with F4R-730 engine.

Possible upgrades I think of is:
- 13-row Oilcooler kit with Thermostat and oiltemp+oilpressure outlets
- Matched intake manifold
- 4-2-1 Exhaust manifold
- Decat
- Perf. Camshaft (if I haven't already got performance cams... another thread..)
- E85 Remap either using standard ECU or upgraded ECU

Has anybody any input to this? Anything missing from the above that would make it more complete? Anything that can be skipped?
I haven't seen many F4R mapped with E85, why is that? Can the standard injectors cope with the E85 that is needed?
Possible to land about 190hp at crank?

 

[tom172w]

Have you considered dropping a 182 engine in, with a set of lumpy cams? You would need to research on here but some fellas are hitting nearly 200bhp with cams and a few supplementary mods (exhaust, intake) and that may work out cheaper? Oil cooler isn't needed I'd have thought....

 

[Overclocked]

Ok thanks. I was under the impression that the difference between 172 and 182 was optimised intake and exhaust. Another problem is that my car, being a 2000 Mk1 is probably using another ecu so maybe that would need to be changed also? Yea I forgot to mention, the car is a trailer queen, so it is only used on track. And I'm having problem with oil overheating.

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[bozothenutter]

How goodis the base engine?
Compression?
Oil use?
Have a good read on here, these are not easy engines to tune

 

[Overclocked]

I think it is in really good condition. A friend of mine did the cam belt and also looked over the complete engine. After a complete breakdown due to cam belt failure the engine has done 60000km. New water pump, oil and filter with the belt. New battery, new tdc sensor and some more stuff done. Performance friction pads, milltek cat back, half cage, sport wheel, 2 sparco seats and emptied out behind them, Bilstein pss coilovers, complete Powerflex chassis including camber bolts and engine mount stabilising. Also camber shims for rear camber. Got some older Toyo R1R on now. Just did a track day and missing some oumph

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[bozothenutter]

If you are looking for oomph......go turbo
There are plenty of threadson here by ppl that built pretty good engines.
@NorthloopCup has built a 230bhp with lots of cool R3 bits..

 

[bashracing]

You'll need injectors with a lot more flow than the standard ones for e85 (30-50% bigger)

 

[midge]

I have a clio 200 F4R, i assume all the parts would bolt in to a 172 F4R, and get an instant 200bhp? (ish)

 

[Overclocked]

I have a clio 200 F4R, i assume all the parts would bolt in to a 172 F4R, and get an instant 200bhp? (ish)

For sale midge? Or can you share your spec?

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[bashracing]

I think He means he has an f4r engine from a mk3 clio 200

 

[midge]

As above, i have a mk3 clio 200 engine, i also assume a lot of the reason it makes more power than a 172/182 is the cylinder head design

 

[Overclocked]

As above, i have a mk3 clio 200 engine, i also assume a lot of the reason it makes more power than a 172/182 is the cylinder head design

Ok I see. Yea maybe some parts could be used or a complete engine switch. I've read about the 197 cam in 172 engine as a cheap way of getting more aggressive cams. But of course would need to be mapped also. But I can't even seem to find any original 197 cams for sale. .

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[Overclocked]

@bozothenutter Turbo or ITB seem at little out of my league when it comes to economy so something less than £3-4k is needed. Something like.. £1k is more my budget. Like I said, I'm not aiming for 200hp either. And for your earlier question, no oil that I can see have been used from the 2 first trackdays but its only done like 200km track and no road.

@midge did you do an enigne swap to newer F4R on older car? have a thread or comment about that? Gearbox match? other problems? What is the price for a 197/200 complete engine? Which ECU do you use?

@bashracing About the Injectors, are you talking from experience with F4R E85 mapping or just standard facts. Is the currect Injectors used to its limit on original engine?

 

[midge]

An F4R goes in a mk1 on the F4R mount, it all bolts up, you can use the mk1 gearbox or the mk2 gearbox (if you use a mk2 box you need the mk2 gearbox mount and battery tray) small wiring alterations needed and the ecu to be de-immobilised

 

[Overclocked]

An F4R goes in a mk1 on the F4R mount, it all bolts up, you can use the mk1 gearbox or the mk2 gearbox (if you use a mk2 box you need the mk2 gearbox mount and battery tray) small wiring alterations needed and the ecu to be de-immobilised

Thanks midge! Sounds like an opportunity. Now just to find a 197/200 at good price and getting it shipped to Sweden... well I look into it.

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[midge]

No its a 172 or 182 engine you need, a mk3 engine is not a direct fit

 

[bozothenutter]

You could use the internals and the head off the 197/200.......aftermarket ecu needed because both cams are adjustable....aaaaaannnnddddd you're over budget again

 

[bashracing]

E85 requires a stoichiometric ratio of 9.7 to 1
Gasoline has a stoichiometric ratio of 14.7 to 1
so for simplification lets say you need 1/3 more fuel going in on e85 than petrol.
Standard injectors max out at around 210 ish hp
on E85 their maximum flow rate would only allow 150 ish hp.
Most of the benefits of running E85 come from its ability to withstand 'knock' so unless you're going turbocharged or much higher compression the benefits of E85 on a internally standard f4r will be compromised.

 

[Overclocked]

@bashracing that was interesting and good info. Thanks! Here in Sweden E85 seem to be everywhere so my thought was that IF a got the money to do a map after changing some Engine Internals, I might as well go for E85 and get more hp. For now, no Turbo/Supercharger installation is planned. So, for a project with a limited budget maybe E85 is not the best way to go.

 

[Martin_172]

An F4R goes in a mk1 on the F4R mount, it all bolts up, you can use the mk1 gearbox or the mk2 gearbox (if you use a mk2 box you need the mk2 gearbox mount and battery tray) small wiring alterations needed and the ecu to be de-immobilised

from reading I think he has a ph1 172 not a mk1 clio

 

[Overclocked]

Martin, you are right. The car is a Phase1 172 from 00/01. The model just before they got OBD-II compatibility. My bad for not using the correct terms.

In case somebody is interested, here are some pictures/movies from my last track day. The car actually runs great after adjusting Camber with bolts and Shims. it just need a bit more.

Pictures

Movie1
Movie2
Movie3

 

[Simonamos]

Evening all! Looking forward to joining the 172 ownership club very soon, with this absolutely honest and mint 52 plate, fanatically cherished by a RR Engineer, completely std 2 owner car. However, whilst it’s an awesome chassis already, I’m thinking it needs 250 BHP+ Ideas welcome lol. 👍👍

 

[MC GARAGE]

cheap best itb from Kawasaki zx12-r motorcycle and injectors are enough for 250 hp