Clio 182 Track Car

[David Garthwaite]

Hello
Here's my 182 track car purchased earlier this year, it's not road legal and all of the work done to date was done by the previous owners and so far its a good job.

 

[David Garthwaite]

Had my first track day at blyton park in June and it's a lot of fun, the setup is good although the back end drifts a little but that just makes it more fun. One thing that didnt work so well was it jumps out of third on braking, asking around on the day and everyone said it's the engine mounts and this was backed up on the forums. Looking in to it, the engine mounts on top don't seem to have much influence on the forward backwards movement of the engine, which seems like the cause. So rather than fork out the £200 K-tec replacements, I am going to try just the "Powerflex Dog Bone Twisted Eng Mount Bush Kit " £47 off ebay. I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[David Garthwaite]

As I don't have a garage the car is covered when not in use

 

[David Garthwaite]

A few jobs going on with it at the moment
New bushes for the dog bone

Fitting a full roll cage, you'll see i've knocked away the sound deadening strips in the corners ready for some strengthening plates, need to clean up that area more ready for welding

and finally one-eyed-willy has developed a bit of conjunctivitis so I'll be looking at cleaning it out

 

[imprezaworks]

Car looks great

 

[David Garthwaite]

thanks @imprezaworks

 

[imprezaworks]

I can get an evol road or race mount if it's of interest. I set a group buy up a few weeks back which was successful. If it's a track car id recommend the race version. They were 35 delivered but the price has gone up a touch to 40 delivered.

 

[imprezaworks]

http://www.cliosport.net/threads/gearbox-dogbone-mount-evol-group-buy-ends-12-6-16-pm.794320/

 

[David Garthwaite]

hey, did you just say you can get top mounts for £40, if so I'd be interested. I want to keep it in rules for the 182 series, not read all the rules yet so dont know whether this is an issue or not. @imprezaworks, really appreciate your input

 

[imprezaworks]

No the gearbox mount mate

 

[Ads29]

If you're looking to keep it within spec for the 182 series I believe you can only use top mounts and coilover setup from k tec racing. I could be wrong but that's the way I read it anyhow.

Otherwise it looks a nice solid base to progress from, I assume you'll run the harnesses off the cage once it's fitted? Only ask as I've seen too many people end up with serious back/spine problems from accidents where a harness was attached to the floor

 

[David Garthwaite]

@Ads29 Thanks for the comment, you know I did plan to return the harnesses to the floor as the original picture above shows but as we're installing the roll cage this weekend then I'd appreciate your input as we could plan it differently.
So seeing the cage in the picture above, where would you mount the harness? Can you go in to a little detail as to why it makes a difference putting it there as opposed to the floor? (its not that I dont believe you as I've seen similar comments elseware, I just like to understand the science before making a change).

 

[David Garthwaite]

@imprezaworks Here's the regulation that I believe tells me the dog bone replacement is fine....

1. Modifications Permitted:
1.1 The replacement of valves, valve guides and valve seats with parts of standard pattern and material is permitted.
1.2 The replacement of engine mountings, upper engine, upper gearbox and lower stabiliser link with only the parts listed and supplied by K-Tec Racing as per 6.5.4.
Looking at the k-tec website the lower stabiliser kit looks identical to the one I bought (colour) so doubt it'd be a problem.

 

[Ads29]

@Ads29 Thanks for the comment, you know I did plan to return the harnesses to the floor as the original picture above shows but as we're installing the roll cage this weekend then I'd appreciate your input as we could plan it differently.
So seeing the cage in the picture above, where would you mount the harness? Can you go in to a little detail as to why it makes a difference putting it there as opposed to the floor? (its not that I dont believe you as I've seen similar comments elseware, I just like to understand the science before making a change).

I see your predicament now @David Garthwaite, in an ideal world harnesses are mounted to the roll cage, this is so that there's no nasty angles on the harness itself, the sharper the angle the harness sits at the more potential there is for injury in an accident with damage/distortion to the floor (or wherever the harness is mounted too). By mounting to a cage it drastically reduces said angles, and with the integral strength of the cage itself any damage/distortion is reduced, thus reducing the chance of injury.

There doesn't look to be a horizontal harness bar on your cage though? Unless I'm missing something. In which case the shallower the angle you can get on your harnesses the safer they will be (ideally something under or around 10 degrees when mounted on cage but should be ok if no steeper than 45 degrees), have a look in the track/race section of the forum and at the top theres a thread on harness fitting by a company called schroth, which is very useful.

Unfortunately I've seen first hand the damage a harness can do when fitted at a very sharp angle (a neighbour rolled at around 40 and broke his back in several places, although he has made a full recovery since) I'm not trying to preach by any means, just don't like to see people get hurt if it can be avoided

 

[David Garthwaite]

@Ads29 yeah you're not mistaken, was hoping you'd have a solution but it seems the roll cage I've got doesn't easily support the 10 degrees ideal. Obviously a bar could just be welded across but I want this to be legal for the 182 series and this is a FIA approved K-tec roll cage so I'm not sure what flexibility I have, but from your feedback I will explore options to at least get the drivers harnesses in a better place, I get the chassis distortion explanation and can use that to help come up with a better idea.
Appreciate your input man.

 

[David Garthwaite]

Hey everyone
Time for an update of where we are with the track car, first the good news, track day booked at Donnington 29th August, massively looking forward to tanking around a full GP circuit but all the more important to have the roll cage in place given the higher speeds of here over Blyton Park. Good news in this department, we're a couple of days away from the final fit of the roll cage, thanks in no small part to the time and expertise of my father (ex mechanic) and a little help from me (office worker, so just a pair of hands).

Spreader plates fitted and drilled, this proved quite a difficult weld given the thickness of the plate and the thinness of the car body, so we blew a couple of holes in the chassis.

but overall the result is very satisfying

please dont have a go at the quality of the weld, we know it could be miles better but K-tec said it just needed spot welding in place so I think we've achieved that.

Roll cage all painted and ready for installation.

The dash has been cut to accept the frame but I'll have a picture of that once it's all installed.

 

[David Garthwaite]

And finally for tonight, another bit of good news, a new addition to my family of vehicles.....behold!!!

The time taken to pick up a trailer the day before and return it the next evening after a full day really makes it a lot of effort, I got this beauty for £450 and think I'll break even after 7 events so worth the money I recon. I think it'll be going blue and white at some point to match the car.

 

[imprezaworks]

Good result

 

[David Garthwaite]

Just one more thing, we're all petrolheads here so I thought I'd share my day to day car.

over 300 bhp, twin turbo straight six petrol she's a little beauty, we're driving her down to italy around tuscany in a couple of weeks and I cannot wait for that and the drive through the alps.
Two observations:
1) Hairdressers car, I know!!! I get told often enough by my mates (who drive diesels)
2) I realise I've got the performance car for the road and the runabout for the track which is the wrong way around, but it comes down to how much money do I want to risk

 

[imprezaworks]

Most certainly not a hairdressers car lol. People who say that are

1. Jeolous
2. Haven't got the balls to drive something like that, because 'manly'.
3. Hairdressers who don't want to be stereo typed.

Number 3 was adding superb humour into the mix. Obvs.

 

[David Garthwaite]

And it's finally in, roll cage fitted and ready for Donnington next week.

 

[Tomo3292]

Not a bad effort mate looks in good nick

 

[David Garthwaite]

A couple of updates...

Dog bone bushes going in, should stop it jumping out of 3rd on braking now

Head light cleared up...not completely happy with it yet but massive improvement (see above) and it'll do for donington on Monday.

 

[Tomo3292]

And it's finally in, roll cage fitted and ready for Donnington next week.
View attachment 162803 View attachment 162804 View attachment 162804 View attachment 162805 View attachment 162806

What size battery cable dos you use mate 170AMp??
Also what battery terminals did you use?
I'm reallocating mine to the boot.

 

[David Garthwaite]

What size battery cable dos you use mate 170AMp??
Also what battery terminals did you use?
I'm reallocating mine to the boot.

I didn't move it myself but I'll take a look tomorrow and get back to you

 

[David Garthwaite]

A few pics of one eyed willy down at donington earlier today, so a great day, great circuit, organisation and weather. Car performed impeccably, dog bone bushes worked a treat and stayed in gear all day, only niggle is it seems I've got a front wheel imbalance but these tyress are shot now so new ones will get balanced. Really wanted a pic with the leg cocked but didnt get one, clearer instructions to the camera man next time.
I'm off to take the z4 around italy for two weeks now including a trip to monza for the gp, speak to you all when I get back

 

[David Garthwaite]

What size battery cable dos you use mate 170AMp??
Also what battery terminals did you use?
I'm reallocating mine to the boot.

Sorry mate, been super busy with the track day and donington and going on hols, will get back to you asap.

 

[imprezaworks]

Looking good

 

[David Garthwaite]

Gents
Been quiet lately due to work issues, I'm out of work at the moment so money has dried up so taking the time to plan next steps with the Clio with a view to racing next year. Here's my list of things to do, some of which (in weight saving) are nice to haves but I thought I'd get them down here for feedback.

So here's the things I think I need as 'must haves' to go racing
In date seat ~ £130
Compliant helmet ~ £170
Suit ~ £300
Hans device ~ £250
Cut off kit ~ £15
Fire Extinguisher ~ £120
Tyres (DZ03G) ~ £477

Jobs I need to do to my Car
Fit a horizontal harness mount at approx 10 degrees
Propeller shaft restraint
Leak proof container for battery
Strut braces (mainly front)
Reconnect ABS

Stuff I need to do
Get an MSA Licence

 

[David Garthwaite]

So I've been doing a bit of reading about weightloss for the car (and myself), here's a list I've compiled in no particular order of importance
Remove unnecessary wiring
Remove sound deadening strips
Remove air conditioning unit
Lightweight battery
Plexiglas windows
Maybe 2 horns, don’t need both
Plastic bonnet
Remove resonance damper (near drivers side engine mount)
Remove bumper Bars (??)
Remove Underseal
Aluminium fuel tank
Remove Carbon canister
Aluminium radiator

 

[imprezaworks]

Plastic bonnet?

 

[David Garthwaite]

Yeah, I've read about those, fiberglass maybe?

 

[David Garthwaite]

Yeah, I've read about those, fiberglass maybe?

Ok, lets just say "lightweight" bonnet

 

[imprezaworks]

yeah fibre glass

 

[imprezaworks]

With regards the front brace I'd be looking for the pms setup of top mounts and brace. Also their rear arb is supposed to be very good too.

I assume you are looking at competing? Depending on the class you need to check what you can and can't do.

 

[David Garthwaite]

Hey
I think I'm going for Tri Trophy production plus given that it's got coil-overs on and I don't want to put the original suspension back on. To be honest I'm not really sure but having looked at the regs it seems like the category I'd have to do least to the car but no idea if I'll be competitive with what I've got at the moment. In this class I believe strut braces are allowed.
Does the rear brace do very much given that there's little weight over the back?

Another question, I'm on the MSA website looking at getting a licence and I'm confused by the first question they ask, which licence do I need, here's the otpions
Non-Race Clubman
Non-Race National 'B'
Rally National 'A' Navigator
Kart Clubman

Cheers for your help guys, this is a massive learning curve for me.

 

[imprezaworks]

Rear brace does nothing mate

 

[David Garthwaite]

Rear brace does nothing mate

will add arb to wishlist

 

[imprezaworks]

If racing are they allowed?

 

[David Garthwaite]

If racing are they allowed?

ok so here's the regs

Production Class
8. Suspension
a. Permitted- Uprated/lowered springs are permitted. Non adjustable uprated dampers are permitted providing the mount on the standard mounts. Anti roll bars are free, but must not be adjustable by driver whilst seated. Uprated anti roll bar links are permitted, providing they are not adjustable in length and are not manufactured using rose joints. Adjustability of suspension geometry is limited to that provided by the vehicle manufacturer for standard suspension. Camber bolts allowed Standard chassis bump stops must be fitted in standard position. Polybush replacements are permitted.
b. Prohibited – Modifications to suspension pick up points, c**k pit adjustable anti roll bars with driver seated, offset or adjustable suspension strut mounts, adjustable, spring platforms, hub carrier brackets dampers with remote reservoirs, rose joints/rod ends in any suspension component . Any modifications restriction a wheel from reaching its fully dropped position.
c. Wheel base and track to remain standard for the model being raced, other than spacers up to 10mm per side permitted.

Production Plus
Must be original design. Alternative dampers/springs allowed rates free alternative wishbone links allowed Rose joints allowed, bush material free Hubs/uprights to be of original design, mounting points must be original.

So are coil-overs allowed in either of these? I'm really not technical so am not sure