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Clio 182 Turbo



NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
That makes sense, I thought there was more broken bits of metal than I had missing 🤣.

Are any of the bits of the box any use to you? They are going out for scrap but if there’s anything useful I can send it your way.
I had one in that had done the exact same thing just before Christmas funnily enough.

I’d need to see the selector forks ideally mate before I can commit, but the upper half of the casing could be of use 👍🏻
 

Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
I thought about doing something Clio related today. I got as far as looking at it before thinking “f**k that” and walking down to Sainsbury Local for a slab so sanny migs. It’s still the most progress I’ve made this year 🤣

Maybe next weekend ?

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Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
I’m not even sure I believe it myself, but I did a thing tonight. For the first time in nearly a year.

The bonsai human was playing out in the street so used it as an excuse to fanny on for a bit.

Plan was to strip the subframe. The whole lot is minging so needs stripped then sent for blasting and powder coating.

Disks and hubs look like they’ve been in the sea.
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Wishbones look like they’ve been in the sea
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Subframe looks a bit less like it’s been in the sea
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I took the steering rack off. You can see on this bit where the downpipe has been hitting it on that sticky out bit and also on that bolt head. Does the DCi EPAS rack have this or is it different? It it does I’ll swap the rack, if not I’ll just grind it a bit.
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It’s also been hitting the subframe a bit. That’s an easy fix - I’ll just edit it with a big hammer.
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I had also tidied the garage a bit at the weekend too. It’s still surrounded by shite but at least I can get near it now!
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Last question for today is the 255/265/275 pistons. I know a few have used them in the F4R. I’m sure a couple have had them machined to match the 1x2 piston profile. However… is that needed. Can I just use a thicker HG to avoid having to machine them? Does anyone know how much clearance I need to not end up with a valvey pistony mess?
 

Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
May aswell just buy my powerflexed wishbones if you're wanting some to send away 👀

Ping a link over. Could be a plan cos the bushes are shot on them.

I thought we'd covered this before Steven

Just stick a thicker head gasket on and have done🤣 The dCi rack does look smaller, I'd send a picture but I can't find any on my phone

We have but not sure we settled on how much thicker. It’s a ropey guessing game if I guess wrong 🤣.

You haven’t got a rack in stock amongst the 261555156253 bits of Renault have you?

Dci rack for ref. Shoud give a bit more room, and solid mounted compared to the bushes on 172 rack..View attachment 1761833

Megane headgasket on and send it.

Mint. That’ll be just the job. All the s**t that gets in the way will no longer be there 👌. Best get eBaying.

Just normal 265/275 gasket?
 

Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
Standard thickness is .65mm, Meg2 PH1 was 1.3mm and Meg3 is 1.5mm iirc

I don't have a spare dCi rack no mate

1.5mm it is. Suppose the easy test is to pop the head off, stick a steel rule over the top of one of the pistons and see what clearance I’ve got at TDC. Then same again with the new pistons and HG and see where I end up.
 

Brigsy

ClioSport Club Member
  T.Turbo
Cant see no machining required on 250 pistons to be fair in 172 mate. Whats reason behind it? Same block height as 250 iirc and no protrusion.

Look similar to meg2 pistons with valve cutouts so shouldnt have a problem with vvt activated.

What cr are you aiming for. 1.3-1.5mm gasket should put you in the mid/high 8s.
 

Brigsy

ClioSport Club Member
  T.Turbo
I also have a stock of 1.2 racks if you want a freebie. Had a few off breakers sent incorrect when looking for a dci one.
 

Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
I might have to take you up on one of those, happy to swap for a few beer tokens though.

I think the machining idea came from @incy-spider 's build. He Had the 250/265/275 pistons machined to match the exhaust ports of the 182 ones.

Shamelessly stolen pic below. Machined piston on left, original 1x2 on right.

ed665f28e4534ed3b5ea30e9e0a5f391-jpg.jpg


The thicker head gasket does seem logical though. It's essentially the same block with the same bore/stroke so a thicker gasket should buy the extra clearance. Unless the 250 head is vastly different then it should do the trick.

Compression should be somewhere around 8.5:1.

I'm not too bothered about ultra specific compression ratio as I'm not shooting for huge numbers. I'm using incy-spider's old 225 injectors so they'll limit what I can do. Max power realistically will be somewhere around 280 (he made 282/258 at 12psi). The EFI boost control module can deal with that too. .

Any more and I'll need standalone management, proper valves and springs. And a decent gearbox. None of which I have!
 

Brigsy

ClioSport Club Member
  T.Turbo
Welcome to a rack for free if you want one. I should bin them but im a fooking hoarder :LOL:

I see what you mean, valve cutouts on exhaust side. Be interesting mocking it up to see if its necessary.

Being honest wouldnt bother changing pistons for 280..stick a meg headgasket current engine to drop the static cr so your not knock limited and send it.
 

Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
Welcome to a rack for free if you want one. I should bin them but im a fooking hoarder :LOL:

I see what you mean, valve cutouts on exhaust side. Be interesting mocking it up to see if its necessary.

Being honest wouldnt bother changing pistons for 280..stick a meg headgasket current engine to drop the static cr so your not knock limited and send it.

Thats a good point well made and just a gasket probably the sensible/easy option. However… engine is already out. Head has got to come off anyway. I’ll be taking the sump off to sort the leaky sump gasket. By the time I’m that deep, swapping the pistons isn’t really that much more effort. Plus it’ll also be nice to have a fresh set of rings and rod bearings (bmw ownership has scarred me for life with bearings!!).

Legend RE the rack. I’ll drop you a message cos I’m sure you’re only half an hour or so away.

I ran 250rs pistons as is in a laguna block but with full 172 cams no issues. Only thing to note was a cometic thick headgasket.

That answers it then! Thicker HG it is.

Sorry for ever questioning you @Speedo Gonzales and @Brigsy. I hope you can find it in you to forgive me 😂

Can you remember what one you used?
 

Speedo Gonzales

ClioSport Club Member
I only suggested putting a HG on to save you a message about

If you're in there and the engines coming out then send it with the pistons. Might be worth getting some 250/265/275 rods just for the sake of it
 

Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
I ran a 1.9mm cometic gasket, was trying to drop the comp pretty low for bigger boost, was running 304/300 on that.

Cracking, cheers 👍.

Did you get there on 225 injectors or need something a bit more spicy?

I only suggested putting a HG on to save you a message about

If you're in there and the engines coming out then send it with the pistons. Might be worth getting some 250/265/275 rods just for the sake of it

Yeah, with the lot out it makes sense.

I’ve got both 😉.
IMG_1583.jpeg


Gonna go 9 bar of boost through the wuhan whistler and see if it’ll make 1500bhp 💪
 

Adey.

ClioSport Club Member
Cracking, cheers 👍.

Did you get there on 225 injectors or need something a bit more spicy?

no, a little more. 250 rods and pistons, 1.9mm gasket, 172 inlet and exhaust cams, 19t hybrid turbo, meg 250 injectors and map sensors. Exhaust cam was a bit spicy for the stock megane exhaust manifold and rear housing. This was stuffed into a twingo with a diesel gearbox, was spicy on the road.
 

Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
I had a free afternoon today and it was warm enough so went and hid in the garage for a bit.

I was bored of subframe related activities so booled the block out from its corner on its ultra high tech engine stand.
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The plan was to strip it down and see how far I got. Wuhan whistler / Tommy Tisher off.
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I need to redo this return as it’s a bit of a bodge. It’ll be a doddle with the engine out and plenty of room to work in, instead of being folded backwards and working blind at some obscene angle with the engine in place.
IMG_1630.jpeg


With that off I started to take the rocker cover off. Popped the timing belt cover off first. I’m convinced the timing has always been slightly out on this engine. It was a replacement after I spun a bearing on the original and it was always miles slower than the original. That was one of the reasons why I took the huff and abandoned it in the garage for a decade in the first place.
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The the rocker cover came off, but only after undoing the cam pulleys. Bit of a stupid design and I very much see now why people say you can’t just pop the rocker off to paint it!
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Cams look ok. There’s a few marks on them but nothing I can feel so they’ll be going back in. Mileage on the engine is about 90k (+/- 5k either way)
IMG_1633.jpeg


I popped my 10 year/30,000 mile old cam belt off and as expected it’s perfect. Just more proof that the 5 year interval is a con. It always has and always will be the aux belt that’s the problem - as I’ve shown twice in this thread with badly perished belts that were relatively new. I might even re-use it just to see how many people I can trigger 🤣
IMG_1634.jpeg


Then it was head off time. All the head bolts came off nicely until one didn’t. The absolute c**t.

I bashed a couple of smaller sockets over it but none would bite hard enough to not pop off as soon as a bit of pressure was applied. So that’s good, isn’t it.
IMG_1635.jpeg


Only one thing for it. Swear a lot
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The arsehole is now back in its corner where it belongs.
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I’m not really sure how to tackle the bolt. I’ve done smaller sockets so kinda exhausted that option. Next I suppose is to consider drilling it but I can imagine that being an absolute nightmare. I did consider tightening it until it snapped, but I can guarantee it would either pull the thread out or snap level with the block and totally f**k me 🤦‍♂️
 
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Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
been there done that, drill the head off, easy really. small bit down the middle then keep stepping up (y)

You’re right. I just need to not be a fanny and crack on with it.

Saving grace is that it’s only one. Just had a look and all my metal bits look fucked so will order some this week. Ironically they are all fucked because they were last used to drill out pretty much every single sump bolt when they rounded off too.

Spiteful bit of French shite 🤣
 

Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
Bit more done tonight. Not sure I believe it myself either.

I had a sit down chat with myself last night and told myself to stop being so soppy. I bought some decent drill bits this afternoon and got on with getting that head bolt off. You weren’t wrong @Adey. - absolute doddle.

It’s a bit swarfy. Got most of it with a magnet and the rest will blast off later.
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Head looks pretty good to be honest. I had considered upgraded valves and springs but looking at that I won’t be bothering. That’ll be going back on exactly as it is. Some of the water ways are a bit scabby so I’ll clean what I can see
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Bores look good too
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Much nicer than the ones on the shite N57 I stripped last yeat
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Then it was sump off
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Old pistons oot. Crank looks tidy.
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Pistons, rods and caps. There’s some wear on the bearings but not much to write home about. Again - I’m happy enough with how it’s held up.
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And this is a side by side of what’s going in, 182 on left and the new ones on right.
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So that’s it for now. The new pistons have got rings and bearings on them. Am I pikey enough to recycle them - absolutely. However, I’ll be sensible and swap them for new.

Give the rod bearings and the condition of the rest of it, is it worth taking the caps off the mains and swapping those bearings? I’d prefer not to remove the crank so more than happy just to stick the new pistons in and send it.
 

Yarp

ClioSport Club Member
  182 Turbo, E46 M3
Gave the head a quick clean tonight. Nothing sophisticated, just a scrub with a brush and some degreaser/brake cleaner. Came up ok.

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Plan is to paint the whole engine silver - I’d prefer black but silver will make oil leaks much easier to spot. Although I think I’ll get quite a lot of the stuff vapour blasted. The rocker cover, inlet manifold, engine mounts, various brackets for alternator etc will all come up better that way and I can then always just paint them anyway depending on how they come out.

I also did some very rudimentary measurements of the cylinder bores with an old ring. I’ve got feeler gauges but all they do is .2 and .3 so as they were bought for gapping spark plugs. However, on all bores the .2 was loose and .3 wouldn’t go in the gap. I tried it at a few heights in the bores so I’m pretty happy they are straight ish and within spec which I believe is between 0.25 and 0.3. I’ll grab a more precise set tomorrow and check properly but it appears the block is good to use which is nice. No reason why it shouldn’t be but always good to check.

I’ve got a few questions on what to do/not do though:

  • Oil pump - change it or leave it?
  • Piston rings - OEM/aftermarket and where from? Are all rings the same between the F4R and variants of F4RT?
  • Crank seals - they aren’t leaking. Do I leave them alone rathe than risk new ones leaking?
  • Man bearings - change or leave?
  • Rod bearings - what manufacturer and what clearance?
  • Rod bolts - are they single use or re-usable? If they are reusable I’ve got a set so will use them again. If not then what brand/from where? If they are single use can I torque them to check specs with plastigauge or do I need to use another set. I know on the Z20LET which was the last engine I built, you could torque them to spec, take them out and check clearance and then re-use them torqued to spec again. Is this the same?
  • Head bolts - what bolts to use? Will the normal F4R ones be ok or do I need to change spec for the thicker HG?
Soz for the million questions 🤣
 

Adey.

ClioSport Club Member
the last f4rt I built up I used parts from engine dynamics (try TurboRenault as a discount code)

Id leave the oil pump and mains, I've also used second hand rod bolts with no issues. Plasti gauge is good for checking clearances (y), stock new head bolts were fine for the thicker HG too
 


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