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I voted 182 but it's close..
I've owned a 182 Trophy since Feb 08 and driven 15k miles in it. Since Friday I've been driving one of Renault UK's 197 Cups on loan and have driven 300 miles in it over the weekend on a variety of roads and conditions. Here's my reasoning and comparison between the two.
The 197 is a great car. It looks fresh and modern and has some great syling cues. It's better built than the 182 and has a more solid feel to it but so it should - it's a heavier car by some 130-150kg than the 182. Because of that it feels more refined in terms of ride and comfort and as a result slightly less fidgety. Yes the steering is lighter than the 182 and without quite the same granular feedback but for an electrically assisted system it's pretty darn good - I didn't detect any torque-steer under WOT conditions. The gearbox is a gem, very quick shifting and the ratios are nicely close - far better than the 182. The 197 engine felt strong (the Cup had 8000 miles on it) and I wouldn't say it felt any less or more urgent than the 182 (with 30k miles on it). It was less raucous beyond 5000rpm with less noticeable urge when the VVT activates but spun eagerly to 7500rpm. I liked the rasping exhaust note which is more prominent than the 182's exhaust. In terms of economy I averaged 29.9mpg in the Cup over the 300 miles. In the 182 I'm getting 32-33mpg. The 197's brakes are far superior to the 182's. More positive pedal feel, more stopping power, more confidence inspiring. I've put Brembo HC, DS2500, DoT4 fluid and braided lines on the Trophy and they're a great improvement on standard but I prefer the 197's brakes - the red Brembo calipers look great too. The Cup's Recaro seats are excellent - more supportive and better looking than the Trohpy items in my opinion.
So you might ask why did I choose the 182 when the 197 is so good? Well for me it's down to two things:
1) Handling/road-holding
The 197 Cup's handling is very impressive, very little roll, predominantly neutral and resistant to understeer. The Continental's grip well and encourage confidence. However in my experience the Cup understeer's earlier on than in the Trophy and the Cup feels slightly less 'hooked up' and adjustable. The Trophy grips just that bit longer. In the Trophy on tight B road corners you feel the rear wanting to 'assist' in getting round the corner more so than in the Cup.
2) Driver involvement
The 197 Cup is a very accomplished drivers car - better than most in the same market but compared to the Trophy in my opinion it just lacks the immediacy and involvement that makes the Trophy (and the 182 by all accounts) what it is. Some of it will be as a result of the greater weight and size of the 197, some of it will be down to the Trophy's dampers and suspension set up. Some may prefer the slightly dumbed down responses of the Cup compared to the Trophy but personally I prefer the razor edge response and feedback of the older car.
All that said if you're looking for a modern, current day hot hatch with great driver appeal that even your missus will enjoy and find rewarding to drive the 197 has to be at the top of anyone's list.
I've owned a 182 Trophy since Feb 08 and driven 15k miles in it. Since Friday I've been driving one of Renault UK's 197 Cups on loan and have driven 300 miles in it over the weekend on a variety of roads and conditions. Here's my reasoning and comparison between the two.
The 197 is a great car. It looks fresh and modern and has some great syling cues. It's better built than the 182 and has a more solid feel to it but so it should - it's a heavier car by some 130-150kg than the 182. Because of that it feels more refined in terms of ride and comfort and as a result slightly less fidgety. Yes the steering is lighter than the 182 and without quite the same granular feedback but for an electrically assisted system it's pretty darn good - I didn't detect any torque-steer under WOT conditions. The gearbox is a gem, very quick shifting and the ratios are nicely close - far better than the 182. The 197 engine felt strong (the Cup had 8000 miles on it) and I wouldn't say it felt any less or more urgent than the 182 (with 30k miles on it). It was less raucous beyond 5000rpm with less noticeable urge when the VVT activates but spun eagerly to 7500rpm. I liked the rasping exhaust note which is more prominent than the 182's exhaust. In terms of economy I averaged 29.9mpg in the Cup over the 300 miles. In the 182 I'm getting 32-33mpg. The 197's brakes are far superior to the 182's. More positive pedal feel, more stopping power, more confidence inspiring. I've put Brembo HC, DS2500, DoT4 fluid and braided lines on the Trophy and they're a great improvement on standard but I prefer the 197's brakes - the red Brembo calipers look great too. The Cup's Recaro seats are excellent - more supportive and better looking than the Trohpy items in my opinion.
So you might ask why did I choose the 182 when the 197 is so good? Well for me it's down to two things:
1) Handling/road-holding
The 197 Cup's handling is very impressive, very little roll, predominantly neutral and resistant to understeer. The Continental's grip well and encourage confidence. However in my experience the Cup understeer's earlier on than in the Trophy and the Cup feels slightly less 'hooked up' and adjustable. The Trophy grips just that bit longer. In the Trophy on tight B road corners you feel the rear wanting to 'assist' in getting round the corner more so than in the Cup.
2) Driver involvement
The 197 Cup is a very accomplished drivers car - better than most in the same market but compared to the Trophy in my opinion it just lacks the immediacy and involvement that makes the Trophy (and the 182 by all accounts) what it is. Some of it will be as a result of the greater weight and size of the 197, some of it will be down to the Trophy's dampers and suspension set up. Some may prefer the slightly dumbed down responses of the Cup compared to the Trophy but personally I prefer the razor edge response and feedback of the older car.
All that said if you're looking for a modern, current day hot hatch with great driver appeal that even your missus will enjoy and find rewarding to drive the 197 has to be at the top of anyone's list.
That's the best view!!!
Golf 7R
Go man the bridge Troll!
It should be against CS rules, for people with an IQ of under 30 to post!
dw m8, opinions of pikey members are null and void
Gaz_
ClioSport Club Member
Extreme mode
OK
You really are retarded. I've had all RS Clios. Your first lesson today in special school, 197's are not slow. Repeat after me.......
In fact, i think a 197's dicked you tbh, looking though most of your non factual remarks
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/search.php?searchid=4481548
Shat this, shat that. Looks like if its not an RB cup its 'shat' Clap.......clap.......clap
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when you can afford one, in about 20 years time, you'll change your mind.
You are also aware that the official 0-62 time for a 197 is faster than the standard 172 and 182s? If the 197 are slow, i take it you also don't drive one of these two?
And it should be illegal for peeps with no lifes that log on here everyday
with 197's has there shabank material to be horsed out of it by a fat sweaty builder
when you can afford one, in about 20 years time, you'll change your mind.
You are also aware that the official 0-62 time for a 197 is faster than the standard 172 and 182s? If the 197 are slow, i take it you also don't drive one of these two?
lol seeing how i could most likely buy 2 right now
Come with something a little more better then that
Kiddie Cusses that...
yours is shat by the way if thats yours in your avay
Red is a nO nO worse then the plastic back they come with
ForceIndia
ClioSport Club Member
Gentlemans spec 200
FFS, surely having GCSE's should be a min requirment before being allowed to post on here?
who is this guy? i thought this forum was for clio enthusiasts?!? could this fine fello be an imposter?
Its OK I understand. What you are suffering from is anxiety and depression, which causes you to feel very bitter and twisted about not being able to own possesions, but I want you to know that there IS help out there for you. I will support you, I will help you learn to love your life again, so that you can learn to accept your disadvantages.
You CAN change if you want, life doesn't have to be the miserable existance it so obviously seems to be.
PS - I still prefer my 197, even more so now!!
Great angle in that picture.
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lol this is just the usual comparisons and will be a never ending debate tbh, it was the same with the clio 16v to williams, williams to 172, 172 to 182, now 182 to 197!! ( untill the next clio RS is released clio 207ps but actually 190)
i currently own a 182 and driven loads of 197's when i worked for renault, and tbh i wouldnt trade my car for one, i do like the 197cup and r27(see a white one in doncaster knocking about) and they look smart, i think id rather go for a meg r26 or change to something else like a focus RS etc etc etc
i currently own a 182 and driven loads of 197's when i worked for renault, and tbh i wouldnt trade my car for one, i do like the 197cup and r27(see a white one in doncaster knocking about) and they look smart, i think id rather go for a meg r26 or change to something else like a focus RS etc etc etc
clio rs 2000
182
it is smaller and lighter
it is smaller and lighter
Clio 182.
Id say a 197. Its a much better car on the whole, though that doesnt take anything away from the 182, which i own and enjoy driving, even though its a piece of s**t in every other department. Its too small and the build quality is crap.
Id like to have seen the 197 with a better engine. Renault have taken the NA too far with the heavier 197 and should have put a turbo in, like the cooper s or vxr. If it did i would have bought one. I couldnt be seen in a corsa or a mini lol.
Either way, my next car will be far bigger. I wont make that mistake again.
Id like to have seen the 197 with a better engine. Renault have taken the NA too far with the heavier 197 and should have put a turbo in, like the cooper s or vxr. If it did i would have bought one. I couldnt be seen in a corsa or a mini lol.
Either way, my next car will be far bigger. I wont make that mistake again.
Darren S
ClioSport Club Member
ROFL! Eh?!
That's like buying a Maybach limo and then complaining that it's too big.
Surely when brain engaged pen to sign/mouth to say 'Yes' on buying it, something in the back of your mind said "Clio = small"?
Mind you, at the current rate of 'evolution' in the series, you'll only have to wait until the Mk.5 to get your wish. You'll be able to stick 5 kids and 3 dogs in the boot and it will still have an RS badge on the back. Might weigh two tons by then though.
D.
Clio 182.
I see your point, but at the time i bought it, i didnt particularly use the back of the car very much, and tbh, i thought, f**k em, its my car and im buying it for me. I think the test drive got the better of me lol.
Now i seem to have passengers more often, a child included, and its a real pain in the arse to live with. When i have my seat in a comfortable position, there is about 2 inches of leg room behind me lol.
Now i seem to have passengers more often, a child included, and its a real pain in the arse to live with. When i have my seat in a comfortable position, there is about 2 inches of leg room behind me lol.
Yozza'd Titanium 182
182 all the way 197 look like your usual milf would drive it
172 Turbo, Mini Cooper s
People will just vote for what they've got surely? I did
Main reason though I'd never buy a 197, because I'd rather have a Corsa VXR... where as the 182 is the best hot hatch of it time I think (CTR is close, but doesn't look as good imo)
NA..I own a 172 Turbo....but would Prefer 197!!
B
Ben^
197 tries too hard to be a hot hatch and for that reason it fails!
1*2 are poorly built and rattle like fook but I dont care cos there awsome to drive.
1*2 are poorly built and rattle like fook but I dont care cos there awsome to drive.
197 tries too hard to be a hot hatch and for that reason it fails!
1*2 are poorly built and rattle like fook but I dont care cos there awsome to drive.
while everyone is entitled to an opinion, would be good if you have actually driven a 197 for a period of time instead of making a subjective opinion lol
? maybe you have???? then fair enough.
bit harsh to say 'it fails' when it is a very very capable hot hatch
B
Ben^
while everyone is entitled to an opinion, would be good if you have actually driven a 197 for a period of time instead of making a subjective opinion lol
maybe you have???? then fair enough.
bit harsh to say 'it fails' when it is a very very capable hot hatch
Yes I have driven one, done a few laps of the ring in one too and could not justify spending the extra £6k+ on one.
I agree though, each to their own. personally I would spend half the amount on a 182, maybe a bit more on a trophy and save some cash. I still maintain that the Ph2 172 is the best BANG for BUCK car out there, u cant get a car that quick which averages 32+mpg for that amount of money other than the 172 which it for me what makes it stand out from the crowd.
In 5 years time you will have 197, VXR, Cooper S etc all around the same Bang for Buck range where as at the min the 172 is on its own!
In the current climate money is getting tighter and tighter and you need to make every pound go further which is why I still think the 1*2's have the upper hand, just too much more money for too little an improvment. I am not saying it isnt a capable hot hatch but there are more factors than handling and performance that need to be addressed!
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Yes I have driven one, done a few laps of the ring in one too and could not justify spending the extra £6k+ on one.
I agree though, each to their own. personally I would spend half the amount on a 182, maybe a bit more on a trophy and save some cash. I still maintain that the Ph2 172 is the best BANG for BUCK car out there, u cant get a car that quick which averages 32+mpg for that amount of money other than the 172 which it for me what makes it stand out from the crowd.
In 5 years time you will have 197, VXR, Cooper S etc all around the same Bang for Buck range where as at the min the 172 is on its own!
In the current climate money is getting tighter and tighter and you need to make every pound go further which is why I still think the 1*2's have the upper hand, just too much more money for too little an improvment. I am not saying it isnt a capable hot hatch but there are more factors than handling and performance that need to be addressed!
fair enough and well argued lol
Gaz_
ClioSport Club Member
Extreme mode
197 tries too hard to be a hot hatch and for that reason it fails!
1*2 are poorly built and rattle like fook but I dont care cos there awsome to drive.
Think you have the 197 confused with a Corsa VXR
Gaz_
ClioSport Club Member
Extreme mode
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Gaz_
ClioSport Club Member
Extreme mode
They did?
B
Ben^
exactly - its trying too hard! lol
Ohh I better have wide arches so no one thinks im a normal clio!! lol
seriously though if they were the same price then yea! but there not and for me that has a bigger factor than how wide the arches are or who makes the front brake calipers!!
Ohh I better have wide arches so no one thinks im a normal clio!! lol
seriously though if they were the same price then yea! but there not and for me that has a bigger factor than how wide the arches are or who makes the front brake calipers!!
