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CLIO TT - new bhp figure
- Thread starter MATT BLACK
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- clio
Rich, about transmission losses, they get lower as the bhp rises. You cant lose transmission loss twice.
A FWD car may start at around 18-20% but add say 60bhp and this will drop to around 13-14%. I think mines works out around 13% compared to 18% when it was standard. I would have expected this clio to be around the same.
Neil, i wasnt aware of that (VVT) Hows your beast gettin on? I noticed your terminals changed??
Ian, were all young and stupid once
Rich-D
ClioSport Club Member
E90 LCI 330d
So you have evidence to back this up then!?
In my opinion, transmission loss should not alter with power, the loss is caused by the rotating mass of the gears, driveshafts, etc, and the resistance of the bearings, tyres, etc... so this will be the same for 200bhp or 300bhp with the exact same drivetrain!
Quote: Originally posted by Rich-D on 17 March 2005
Quote: Originally posted by Mitchy on 17 March 2005Rich, about transmission losses, they get lower as the bhp rises. You cant lose transmission loss twice.A FWD car may start at around 18-20% but add say 60bhp and this will drop to around 13-14%. I think mines works out around 13% compared to 18% when it was standard. I would have expected this clio to be around the same.[/QUOTE]So you have evidence to back this up then!?In my opinion, transmission loss should not alter with power, the loss is caused by the rotating mass of the gears, driveshafts, etc, and the resistance of the bearings, tyres, etc... so this will be the same for 200bhp or 300bhp with the exact same drivetrain!
But surely if its losing the same amount of power (in bhp terms) when it has 200bhp as it is when it has 300bhp, this actual loss will be a smaller percentage?
Ie 30 bhp off of 200 is a lot larger percentage than 30 bhp off of 300
I disagree Rich.
Are you saying that for each bhp gained when modding the car engine to increase bhp, the same % of transmission loss will come off that gained bhp? How can you lose the loss twice. I agree, you will lose a little, but no-where near the original % loss. The transmission is eating up a set amount of horsepower, so when the engines horsepower is increased, i dont think it eats some more in conjunction with rising bhp.
A standard 300bhp impreza with 30% losses will have a wheel figure of 210bhp (30% of 300). Now boost the Impreza upto 400bhp, are you saying a further 30% would be lost in that 100bhp gained? Now giving it 400 @ fly with 280 @ wheels??
Ive seen evidence over on scoobynet that this is not the case. Ive even asked this very question and they agreed that it will lose a much smaller % but not the initial set car % loss.
Ive had wheel figures of 238 and 240 on 2 seperate rolling roads with flywheel figures of 270 and 273 respectively. Working 273/240 out it equates to roughly a 12.5% loss.
Other LCRs are losing around 17% as standard so my transmission loss has definitely dropped in terms of a % figure.
browno
ClioSport Club Member
Quote: Originally posted by Mitchy on 17 March 2005Ive had wheel figures of 238 and 240 on 2 seperate rolling roads with flywheel figures of 270 and 273 respectively. Working 273/240 out it equates to roughly a 12.5% loss.Other LCRs are losing around 17% as standard so my transmission loss has definitely dropped in terms of a % figure.
Sorry, but had to join the debate...
But these runs were again both taken on a rolling road, where the operator has guestimated the tranmission loss to give you a figure at the flywheel - no exact science there...
Top work on the clio though! Always fancied a sleeper myself (anyone see the skoda estelle in Retro performance mag with RX7 power...
)[Edited by browno on 3/17/2005 10:55:05 PM]
Yes, the flywheel figure is guess work but @ wheels is measured.
The operator could have estimated a 20% loss thus making my flywheel figure much higher than 273 but the way it has been calculated its plain to see theres only around a 12-13% loss and not a 20% loss.
This is not just me mate, there are quite a few LCRs with very similar results on a variety of rolling roads.
To the TT Clio, i would say 229 @ wheels equates to around 265 @ fly or thereabouts
You guessed it................its his Second car!!! He has a 172 company car to drive around in if he gets bored with the ClioTT.
He built the car for the 1/4mile and trackdays, who wouldnt given the chance and skill (albeit mainly by a good friend of his). As said, if he wants to drive round in comfort with climate control on and leather seats he can do, but i know which one id be driving around!
Why do people get on their high horse when they see a sleeper?? Thats exactly what the car was designed to be, its meant to look sh*t! That is the whole point of them?! If he wanted a good looking car he wouldve bought one, but he didnt. End Of.
Kev.
j3ned my bro said what gear box are you using on this engine as he said the VW gearboxes are all different and they all has different transmission losses. i.e the deisel ones are higger just because of the uprated parts involved. he said you would then be able to get the figures your talking about easy.
MERCEDES CLS AMG
Ok can the mods lock this thread now because its turning into an argument.
Jesus - there are some real idiots on this site.
please dont lock it, im in love with the amazing power and pure thought that has gone into this car, brilliant concept. some might say that the rr is questionable, thats their opinion, i personally think that it is accurate to within about 2bhp so when there was a 290+ figure on the first run? the figure is not that on the printout because the bloke has obviously realised that it was a one off, do they not take an average or is it the highest figure?
Nippy white cup
His is 285 so why is there even an arguement....why are people getting pissy about it looking like it does when it is supposed to look that way?.....Oh and what is the power to weight on your mates dads ferrari?
It has been built for a purpose...if I put a pic of a new F1 car you wouldnt start saying "Naa thats sh*t, a rally car would beat it round Grisdale Forest" because it hasnt been designed to go off road...as Matts 1.2 is designed to look sh*t...God I hate roundabouts!
Chris
Polo GTi
c**k sniffers
MERCEDES CLS AMG
The fact of the matter is - i AM going to beat his Cupra on the strip........................and he doesnt like it !!
Whos cupra j3ned? Certainly not mine.
Why on earth would i want to launch my car off the line, change gear twice and race against some boyracer in a crap orange shed heap? How exciting is that
It doesnt flick my switch reallyNick Reids car is far nicer than the heap you own and my money is on his car being the fastest clio on this site. What a waste of time that would be eh?You need to run @ pod aswell to get an unquestioned time.
Anyone on this site could have bought an old heap of a clio and dropped a 1.8T engine in it. Not much cost involved really!! Why do you think your so special? I would have done it proper and bought a nicer clio to start with.
The PWR figures of your car as you tried to explain in a previous thread are not that impressive to be whipping ferraris etc. Your exaggerating the kerb weight in order to give you a better PWR
The Jinx
Tom, I dont think there is a switch. I think his arse is hard wired to his brain.
Its one thing questioning someone but theres no need to start throwing insults around. You arent even man enough to be proven wrong.
Best thing is to just wait til after next Sunday eh and let the results speak for themselves?
The size of the turbo is relevant when quoting unrealistic figures. The K04 is too small to flow 297bhp. Fact!!!!
229 @ wheels equates to around 265 @ flywheel with this engine and transmission. Fact!!!
285 @ fly would be around 250 @ wheels hence why i doubt the original bhp figures!!
Now why is this information not valid when taking his claims into consideration?
It is not me being aggressive or abusive here. Im getting more insults than anyone but im just sat here having a giggle on how people are getting wound up in front of there computer screens
Cliosport strikes again! Someone questions something and all hell breaks loose with the chav kiddies choking on there cornflakes
Its a heap at the end of the day, why is everyone so excited? Getting pissed and shagging excites me, not watching an old shed run up a 1/4 strip for 13-14secs. God some people live boring lives!!
