Congrats to DanPl6 on cracking 200bhp (rs2 + 197 cams)

[Chip-mk1]

Im sure Dan will be along soon to post the graph, but apparently his car has just made 200bhp on the rollers he goes to at TSR, which I know he has been hunting for now for a long time!

Was 197 the last time we mapped it, and he opted for a higher limiter to chase down those last few BHP now he has fitted ARP rod bolts to it, and it has just paid off on his latest trip back to the rollers


Fairly exclusive club to be in managing to crack 200bhp on an N/A F4R which is still on standard management and without throttle bodies.


Nice one Dan

 

[Siddle]

That's pretty impressive!

Well done mate! :hail:

 

[Budgie]

Top work mate!

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

197 cams + arp rod bolts + rs2 = a match made in heaven for any fast road Clio!
Congratulations dan!

 

[daveski]

Prices of 197 cams just went up again and RS2s became more in demand.

Be interesting to see the graph, is there a loss of power or torque compared to standard anywhere on the rev range?

 

[cliokid182]

What are RS2's??

 

[Chip-mk1]

197 cams + arp rod bolts + rs2 = a match made in heaven for any fast road Clio!
Congratulations dan!

Dont forget also needs to be +decat and a suitable exhaust.

I am sure that my Mrs car with a cat and a two box ktec stealth wont make the same numbers for example, despite being the same spec engine/cams/rs2 etc.


She has always wanted hers to crack 190bhp while still being a quiet and fully legal road car though which Im pretty sure it will do now, just need to get it back to the rollers at some point to find out.

 

[_Tom]

Awesome. TSR is where my old Hybrid made 155bhp atw.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Prices of 197 cams just went up again and RS2s became more in demand.

Flol, TBH he already had 197bhp before anyway, its not that big a change, but it is just nice when you manage to hit your targets.
I remember many years ago mapping an Astra GTE turbo that me and a friend of mine built the engine for, he wanted:
Quarter mile in the 11s, he got 12.0
150mph in half a mile it did 149
170mph in a standing kilometer, he got 169

Was mildly annoying that although it basically did exactly what he wanted to when we built it, it just *slightly* missed the exact number he was hoping for, lol

Be interesting to see the graph, is there a loss of power or torque compared to standard anywhere on the rev range?

Yes there is, from what ive seen the RS2 tends to be better from idle upto 5K, then the standard inlet is better on torque for about 500-1000rpm from 5K to 5.5/6K and then the RS2 is better from there right upto wherever you set the rev limiter (7800rpm in Dan's case and 7850 for my mrs car), so basically you gain for about 5Krpm and lose for about 1Krpm.
Very few modifications you do to an engine are without any compromise at all TBH mate so thats pretty much to be expected.

 

[Chip-mk1]

What are RS2's??

Its an inlet manifold mate this is the one on my mrs car:

 

[Chip-mk1]

Screenshot from the rollers:

Big boy rpm to be making peak power at.

I genuinely believe if we could rev it a bit further it would make even more, but on standard valvetrain 7800 is about the limit really!

 

[Tutuur]

Great result, congrats on finally making your goal Dan!

 

[Sam]

Good result that like. Bet it sounds mint when its going full steam.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Well that was the picture I've just uploaded. But as its been posted I won't bother. Ill post graphs up tonight, left them in my car when I picked a customers car up. Very pleased with the result, and tbh it was only an excercise to see if it'd make or break. I originally hoped for 185, when it sailed past that the target then became 100/litre. Big thanks to Chip for the mapping, Mike for the help on the cams. And TSR for putting up with "French crap" constantly at their rolling road.

 

[Siddle]

Its an inlet manifold mate this is the one on my mrs car:

how much are RS2's at the moment?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Should be brilliant on track now with that amount of useable RPM, the problem IMHO with the standard inlet is that although it does go well if you can keep it at the right rpm the standard gears being quite wide means that you are often coming out of a corner either after the torque has died off or before it has started, where as in Dan's car when he punches it at ANY rpm it just goes well regardless.

 

[Chip-mk1]

how much are RS2's at the moment?

No longer available.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Full spec:
197 cams
RS-2
Stock plugs
Stock leads
Yozza exhaust and decat
Piper cross filter.

 

[Sir_Dave]

how much are RS2's at the moment?

As much as the seller likes really, James doesnt make them anymore, so the only option is 2nd hand.

Great to see the RS2 pushing good power, just a shame the original designer isnt on here anymore to see the results.

 

[_Tom]

. And TSR for putting up with "French crap" constantly at their rolling road.

Thats exactly what they called my hybrid when i was there on a vag rolling road day. He put one of his 2.0 16v MK2's on before mine to show what power a 2.0 should make. It was less than the hybrid. He tipped his hat to me after that..lol

 

[Hixle]

Superb result Dan. I was really impressed with the pace of Chips/Lesleys 172 when I went out in that, this must fly!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Dave, Tom is aware of this car mate, he still chats to some of us from time to time.

He never envisaged the 197 cams working so well though I beleive, thats just down to Mike/Me ignoring him saying it was optimised only for standard cams and deciding to push on regardless, lol

Tom never got a chance to really see what the inlet could do as he didnt have the right people around to help him with the cam timing and engine mapping etc to develop it further.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Superb result Dan. I was really impressed with the pace of Chips/Lesleys 172 when I went out in that, this must fly!

Dans and Mikes are both quicker than our one just because of the exhaust.

Need Mike to get his onto the rollers if he gets a chance before he sells Tim his RS2 as of the 3 his feels the quickest TBH (ive been in all 3 quite a lot), but that must just be "because phase 1"

 

[George182]

Congratulations dan! You must be chuffed.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Dave, Tom is aware of this car mate, he still chats to some of us from time to time.

Glad to hear it!! Cant imagine you steamrollering an idea through though Chip all this stuff makes me wish id kept the Trophy lol, R32 tinkering is ruddy expensive ...

 

[Chip-mk1]

Glad to hear it!! Cant imagine you steamrollering an idea through though Chip all this stuff makes me wish id kept the Trophy lol, R32 tinkering is ruddy expensive ...

Yeah clios are really good fun, so long as you know the point at which to stop spending, which realistically is a not massively modified engine as they are so expensive to rev past 8K.

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

As much as the seller likes really, James doesnt make them anymore, so the only option is 2nd hand.

Great to see the RS2 pushing good power, just a shame the original designer isnt on here anymore to see the results.

I'm in discussion with James at the moment about a possible group buy!

It would need a NON REFUNDABLE deposit and at least 10 people. But that would include PH1 or PH2 kits.

 

[jkyb]

What's the big deal, there are loads of clio's with "200++ bhp" on ebay/PH etc!

Only messing of course, that's awesome stuff.. nice one!

 

[Chip-mk1]

What's the big deal, there are loads of clio's with "200++ bhp" on ebay/PH etc!

FLOL!

 

[Nick172Cup]

Nice work guys, from the way you're describing the power band now it sounds a lot like my old RS2 with the 50mm extensions. Pushed the peak torque figure up and lost some low down torque. Though you still really couldn't tell you'd lost the low down torque because of its power delivery.

Makes me want to look into getting another RS2 and push it a little than dans engine, with some 50mm extensions on the runner length.

 

[Cub.]

Great work - congrats Dan! Always nice to see good trials and mix of mods put together and actually deliver a strong end result in the F4r, which is not always the case

 

[Chip-mk1]

Great work - congrats Dan! Always nice to see good trials and mix of mods put together and actually deliver a strong end result in the F4r, which is not always the case

Yeah its a nice feeling doing something a little bit different and it actually works out so well.

 

[MatthewR]

Congrats, i was only reading your project thread last night about this!

 

[Michaelfoz]

I got 201 bhp with cat cam 438s and matched inlets


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[Chip-mk1]

Makes me want to look into getting another RS2 and push it a little than dans engine, with some 50mm extensions on the runner length.

I would like to do it with the extensions and also with slightly longer trumpers as well with a plenum spacer too like I have done on the custom "rs2 style" inlet I made for my mk1, I am confident if you did all 3 changes, you would end up with something very very capable on these engines, but the problem is that you would end up needing to lose the slam panel etc like you do with bodies, and also no doubt the aircon, although at least you could still keep the cruise control and standard management etc. (which Dan's also has, he retrofitted cruise to his car, and then he gave me a hand doing he same on my mrs car as I didnt know it was even possible prior to that so she has it as well now)

 

[Kelv]

Damn Chip, this time yesterday i was all set to plan forwards for the ITB's.
you are now dangling that carrot again thats swaying my mind

admittedly i cant see the graph pictures from work, so ill have a peek a little later.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I got 201 bhp with cat cam 438s and matched inlets


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Good point mate, there is the same Dastek setup like that one at circuit motors which is also near to Dan, and Dan could easily see well over 200bhp if he went there, lol, but he specifically wanted to make the power on the same rollers he always uses.

 

[Nick172Cup]

I would like to do it with the extensions and also with slightly longer trumpers as well with a plenum spacer too like I have done on the custom "rs2 style" inlet I made for my mk1, I am confident if you did all 3 changes, you would end up with something very very capable on these engines, but the problem is that you would end up needing to lose the slam panel etc like you do with bodies.

See I'd be okay with that Chip as I'd want it for a trackcar. I still think it would be much cheaper than getting ITB's even after mapping etc, and you still have the chance to put it all back to standard with ease rather than butchering stuff like with ITB's.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Damn Chip, this time yesterday i was all set to plan forwards for the ITB's.
you are now dangling that carrot again thats swaying my mind

admittedly i cants ee the graph pictures from work, so ill have a peek a little later.

Kelv, yours is a track car, go bodies, the advantages the RS2 gives over bodies like better economy, no lights on the dashboard, keeping the aircon, keeping the cruise control are all things that are no use to you, for your car, bodies is the answer honestly mate. The RS2 is a really really good package for a road car that sometimes goes on track, but bodies are where its at for a pure trackday car.

 

[Chip-mk1]

See I'd be okay with that Chip as I'd want it for a trackcar. I still think it would be much cheaper than getting ITB's even after mapping etc, and you still have the chance to put it all back to standard with ease rather than butchering stuff like with ITB's.

I totally see your point, but I disagree with it for that appliciation, I think for a pure trackday car bodies are a better option, even though its more hassle going back to standard, simply because if its a serious trackday car its likely to be caged and stripped etc and hence not going back to standard anyway.