E36 3.0 ITB Race Build

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Had a couple of hours spare tonight so decided to get on with some of the assembly.

First job was to replace the exhaust studs, as some were already missing and I wanted a set of new ones in there anyway. The standard item is just a plain stud (11121744057), and a ridiculous £2.00 each from the dealer, soon adds up when you need 24 of them. After some research I found an alternative, which is from an E60 (11127593376) , and has an e-torx end for easy installation. Even better these are less than £0.50p each! Makes it a bit more complicated with the stud being an M7 thread, so not easy to get hold of from other places than BMW.

Next up was to lap the valves in, started with the inlet valves..

Then fit a new set of valve stem seals to the guides..

..and complete the installation by fitting the valve spring seats, valve springs and collets..

12 done for now, will do the rest another evening. Soon end up losing interest when pi**ing about with the collets for ages!


I wanted to start on getting the bottom end assembled next. Quick pic of how the 'VHT crackle' paint came out..

Fitted the oil spray jets and torqued..

Mains bearing set in standard sizing..

Thoroughly cleaned the bearing seat faces in the block and fitted the bearings, then checked with a square edge..

After using all my Graphogen on the last couple of engines, got some more and applied to the new main bearings..

..and dropped the crank into place..

This is where I realised the wrong mains bearings had been supplied, as the bearings would not fit into the mains caps. The M52 uses a set with a 180degree oil groove, not a 360degree oil groove like I had been supplied. Original on the right, new on the left.

Luckily the supplier has sorted the correct set out and they should be here in the next few days, so I reversed all the above sets ready to start again when they do! :clown:

 

[Matt Cup]

Re: E36 v2

Love the detail in this build. Keep up the good work!

 

[Danith]

Re: E36 v2

Textbook

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Re: E36 v2

Nice work! There's no weight in that block at all!

 

[JamieG]

Re: E36 v2

Typical Jord build. You gonna be running this in @ Cadwell??

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Thanks for the comments!

Plan to have it built in the next week or so Jamie, going to do the swap in a couple of weekends time and run it in beforehand (400-500 miles), drop the oil before Cadwell and give it the beans! Cant wait for a fresh engine coming from this 200k lump.

Correct mains bearings were dropped off today, so can crack on tomorrow

 

[Eddie.]

Re: E36 v2

I love engine rebuild projects.

I need to do one myself some time soon.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Best way is just to do it, easy to learn, especially with all the data out there for torque settings.

So getting somewhere now - cleaned the block again, old bearings went back and got the correct mains bearings now. Fitted them..

Dropped the crank back in, fitted the caps and block bracing. Torqued down to spec.

Next up, rings..

Checked the gaps were all OK out of the box for each cylinder, which they were..

Fitted to the piston, with correct orientation..

Add a new bearing to the rod and cap..

Place piston in ring compressor (utter sh*te, but cant justify a fixed diameter one for a single engine!), then into block..

..and repeat x6. Aligned the rods to the crank and fitted each matching cap with new rod bolts..

Then it was about time to leave it for tonight :boring:

 

[MG cup]

Re: E36 v2

Good progress Jord, good to see threads with loads of build pictures.

Re piston ring compressor, is there not another engine number that has wet liners? They make good compressors with a chamfer machined in. Them adjustable types can be a bit fiddly and nick rings at times.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Yeah, you can get a fixed size machined compressor from ARP/Wiseco/etc, which are tapered and much easier... But unfortunately very expensive for the use it would get!

 

[Chi]

Re: E36 v2

Love engine build threads, car is a real credit. Will need to see it up close. . When is cadwell?

 

[MG cup]

Re: E36 v2

Yeah I am on about using a wet liner that is removable from an old block as a compressor. Works well on loads of engines. Not really worth the hassle unless your doing the same engines fairly regularly.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Ah yeah I see what you mean, unsure.. There probably will be out there somewhere. To be honest if I had more time I would turn one up on a lathe but it's finding something close to the sizes required to start with laying about!

Cadwell is on Saturday 29th March

 

[Martin.]

Re: E36 v2

Awesome update. Loved reading through it and seeing the pictures.

 

[Eddie.]

Re: E36 v2

Jord, just out of interest, how much does a rebuild like this cost in parts, even vaguely?

 

[Chi]

Re: E36 v2

The time lapse videos are brilliant. What do you do for a living @ j rd

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Jord, just out of interest, how much does a rebuild like this cost in parts, even vaguely?

For this the rings were £10 per cylinder, £30ish for rod bearings and £50 for mains. Next is the machine work - luckily I get it done for free due to the business my family is in, but you'd need the head skimming (£25-30), bores honing (£40ish) and possibly block skimming (£25-30).

Head set is next, which comes with new headbolts, every gasket you could ever need, new stem seals etc. They are (£80-100).

From there its up to you what else you replace, I damaged some steel gaskets removing them.. I've fitted new rod bolts (BMW) etc. I've got new crank seals as they are cheap, new chain guides and a new set if vanos seals (same as earlier in the thread)

It can be done as cheap as required, but they are the main bits you want to be replacing for piece of mind!

The time lapse videos are brilliant. What do you do for a living @ j rd

Work in IT

 

[Eddie.]

Re: E36 v2

For this the rings were £10 per cylinder, £30ish for rod bearings and £50 for mains. Next is the machine work - luckily I get it done for free due to the business my family is in, but you'd need the head skimming (£25-30), bores honing (£40ish) and possibly block skimming (£25-30).

Head set is next, which comes with new headbolts, every gasket you could ever need, new stem seals etc. They are (£80-100).

From there its up to you what else you replace, I damaged some steel gaskets removing them.. I've fitted new rod bolts (BMW) etc. I've got new crank seals as they are cheap, new chain guides and a new set if vanos seals (same as earlier in the thread)

It can be done as cheap as required, but they are the main bits you want to be replacing for piece of mind!

Great info, thanks very much.

Looking forward to seeing the progress.

 

[Chi]

Re: E36 v2

IT wow, multi talented mate.. I thought you had to be in the trade as your workmanship is top notch. I know from experience the flower was epic!!

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

IT wow, multi talented mate.. I thought you had to be in the trade as your workmanship is top notch. I know from experience the flower was epic!!

Nope just self taught by messing about and trying things, easy to learn quickly that way!


Progress has now halted again - when fitting the last piston I wasn't happy with the piston itself being a bit stiff to move on the rod. Took the gudgeon pin back out to check the rod bushing, which does not look in too good shape. Looks like some dirt has got in it, so don't want to risk that failing at some point.

Now, to get a spare piston... :boring:

 

[MG cup]

Re: E36 v2

Rough looking casting that on the piston/rod mating faces, not what you would expect of the bavarian motor works.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Yeah, they are pretty roughly machined, yet everywhere else is smooth as can be. I could replace the bushing, but that and a new gudgeon pin are pretty pricey. Hopefully picking up a cheap set of pistons this weekend now, shame I will end up with 5 spare :banghead:

 

[MG cup]

Re: E36 v2

A good chance to choose the best of the 11 weight and length wise though.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

The other 5 are in the block with the rings gapped, bearings in and caps torqued. Will just be taking a lucky dip for the best from the spares I think lol!

 

[NorthloopCup]

Re: E36 v2

Ah yeah I see what you mean, unsure.. There probably will be out there somewhere. To be honest if I had more time I would turn one up on a lathe but it's finding something close to the sizes required to start with laying about!

Cadwell is on Saturday 29th March

What's the diameter of the pistons on these? Only reason I ask is that you could make a compressor out of nylon and it's a easy material to work with. I had to make one up at work one night on the hurry up for a scania v8 diesel engine. Worked like a dream! You can buy either nylon bar or tube in custom sizes for not a lot of cash too so quite inexpensive to manufacture, especially if you have access to the lathe.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Never thought of that, good idea!

Its 84mm bore diameter, 83.9xx piston diameter.

Just not long picked up 6 spare pistons/rods, so il pick the best and get it in the block later I think!

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 v2

Managed to use one of the replacement decent rods with my piston, fitted the rings and dropped it into the block, sorted.

Now I've got 5 spare rods and pistons, oh well. Lapped in the exhaust valves, then fitted to the head.

Quick leak test with some petrol, no leaks after 10 minutes, all the lapping seems good.

Ready to put the two together now, hopefully in the next couple of days!

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

Hit a big problem now, which I shall explain below :banghead:

Finished the bottom end by fitting the deflector and oil pump.

Next were a couple of new chain guides, then the main chain (as this cannot be accessed once the lower timing cover is on)..

Fitted and torqued the timing cover with new gaskets..

To be able to access the flywheel end, the block needed removing from the stand. Fitted the cover and new gasket that end too.

This allows for the sump to be fitted. New sump gasket, then the sump itself..

From now on the engine stand is pretty useless, as it gets in the way on the mounting end, especially as I have to fit the flywheel to time it up.

Quickly knocked up a frame from some 6mm box section and old roll cage tube to allow the engine to stand vertical for ease of working on it, not the usual 45 degree angle how they sit in the car. Added some castors so it could be wheeled about.

Cleaned up the mating faces, fitted the dowels and dropped the new headgasket on..

Dropped the head into place and fitted 14 new head bolts..

These are torqued to a spec of 40NM, then 90degrees, then a further 90degrees with a short wait between stages (obviously in the specified order too). All was well until I came to angle tighten the last stage, when two of the bolts came free and went loose. Oh that'll be the thread in the block then.

The M52 aluminium block uses some sort of inserts for the thread, which for whatever reason have failed. Both ends on the exhaust side have failed, leaving me with two 'threadless' holes. Great! After some reading it seems quite common on the M52, and M54, but no concrete fix is available. Helicoils don't seem to last long (especially with the torque the bolts have) and the other option people use, threaded inserts, are mainly a USA thing.

Not sure where to go from here now!

 

[welshname]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

That's not good.

time-serts seem to be quite popular as a stronger replacement for helicoils. And they seem fairly available in the UK

 

[Chi]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

love the way you just knock up a new stand!!

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

That's not good.

time-serts seem to be quite popular as a stronger replacement for helicoils. And they seem fairly available in the UK

Yep, commonly used all over the US boards, BUT you have to have their tools to put them in properly. The main UK distributer is Wurth, which are very expensive. Some on eBay too but they don't sell the correct insert (M10x1.5x24.5) for the BMW block, only Wurth do. If you go to that expense you may as well replace all 14, then you're up to £250 for the tools and inserts!!

 

[welshname]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

Ah yeah just looked and eBay lists a few for the correct insert but they are all from the US.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

The only realistic solution I'd be happy with is a steel block from an M50B25. The M52 head and internals will drop right on and won't have any daft issues like this. I've just about had it with f*cking around with silly problems now!

Repairing the thread is all well and good until I have another problem and need to remove the head again, or the head lifts due to a weak insert and the new engine will be rendered useless etc.

 

[Cookson]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

M3 lump?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

The only realistic solution I'd be happy with is a steel block from an M50B25. The M52 head and internals will drop right on and won't have any daft issues like this. I've just about had it with f*cking around with silly problems now!

Repairing the thread is all well and good until I have another problem and need to remove the head again, or the head lifts due to a weak insert and the new engine will be rendered useless etc.

If you use timeserts and fit them properly you'll be fine mate. They won't come out at all. Worth the money mate especially for the weight saving of the ally block imo.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

M3 lump?

Same block and reasons for not using an m3 engine in the first place are earlier in the thread

If you use timeserts and fit them properly you'll be fine mate. They won't come out at all. Worth the money mate especially for the weight saving of the ally block imo.

Hmmm, yeah I have no doubt they would work, its just doing them correctly and the messing about getting the right ones from overseas that's putting me off at the moment. Also need to consider if it has future issues and the head needs to come off are they going to last being undone and torqued again etc

Even more so being able to get a complete M50 for sub £100, a whole lot less than the timeserts.

 

[Budgie]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

That's a proper Gary.

I'm sure you'll sort it pretty easily mate

 

[matt_132]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

Won't things mount differently on an m50 block?

Bit of a s**t situation mate. Might be able to find just another 52 block? Loads of breakers on Facebook now.

 

[f0xy]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

M50 is identical mountings. The US cars used the same iron blocks from factory. The heads are the same casting also.

I could get another M52... But what's to say it won't happen again when I torque the head down? This block was all good when I removed the head originally too.

I may have sourced an M50 so will see what comes of it today..

 

[TimR26]

Re: E36 Track Day Hack (v2)

That's annoying after all the work