Ferodo DS2500 - crumbling edges?

[dzm]

I've had DS2500s on the front of my 182 for a while now. Did my second track day with them the other day and came away from the track with some rumbling from the brakes under heavy application. So, took the pads out the other day and the inner pad(s) on the piston side(s) have edges that seem to have crumbled slightly. Anyone seen this before?

I pushed the pistons back, re-copper slipped the pads and put it all back together with the old inside pad on the outside and vice versa. Haven't had a chance to test it out yet. Just to add, I religiously followed the bedding in procedure, and they've already done one trackday which caused some rumbling towards the end of the day but seemed to disappear the next time i drove the car.

 

[homer simpson]

its a comon thing with track days the pads take quite a bit of heat i have had a set of pf97 pads fall to bits when they was taken out

 

[c__w]

DS2500 are awful pads in my experience, "ok" for fast road driving but don't like hard track work and often give vibration due to disc smear when they get too hot. Very very dusty too.

 

[tim124]

swapping the inside to the outside was probably not the best idea, depending on how worn your discs are, they might not bed back in properly

I had some ds2500's and the edges fell apart. as long as its only the very edge you shouldnt worry about it.

 

[dzm]

Tim124 - Cheers. Reckon I should swap them back to the original configuration before driving then? Discs were new with the pads and have done about 2000 miles.

 

[Fred@BTM]

are the pads free to move in the carriers? ie did you grind downthe egdes of the backing plate and remove the shims?

 

[dzm]

Yep, I removed the shims when I fitted them. They move about 1/2mm in the carriers.

 

[drunknmunky]

Fred so whats best on the ds2500's is it best to down the edges and remove the shim also?? Or jst down the edges and keep the shim in there??

 

[Jay Payne]

Mine are like this too (crumbled on the edges)

 

[Riley!]

sounds like you need ds3000's fella

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

i used to have problems with ds2500's. good road pad but not for track. i warped 2 sets of discs on them too, they can't take the heat that well in my experience. i find the std renault pads just as good. the crumbling shouldn't be an issue though.

for track though you should be using something a lot more hardcore, pf's, ds3000's or carbone lorraines. but they will muller your wheels over short periods of time if not cleaned.

 

[Fred@BTM]

you MUST file the edges down AND remove the shims, (hot metal expands remember)

 

[dzm]

Ah, so should I file down the edges of the backing plate now or is it too late? Do you reckon that's the problem (metal expanding and wedging them in the carriers)?

 

[Fred@BTM]

^highly possible

 

[dzm]

Ta muchly!

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

i never filed any sets down when i used them and had trouble getting them in and out. strange.

 

[dswarwick]

can someone explain this filing down the edges and removing the shims in a bit more detail please? I haven't got DS2500s but was thinking of getting some - do they have to be modded to fit?

 

[Icarus]

Only ever so slightly modified.

DS2500's can suffer a bit of edge wear however it shouldn't be major. It does sound like they are binding in the carriers.

Oh and DON'T PUT GREASE ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR BRAKES! Copper grease isn't thermaly stable - it will run and it will find its way onto your brakes which at best will contaminate them and cause a drop in performance/damage to friction materials or at worst will cause your car to meet the tyre wall.

Cheers
M

 

[dzm]

So I shouldn't copper-slip the back of the pads then? Is there something I should use?

 

[badger5]

ds2500 pads are superb pads, but like anything they have a temp limit.. which if you have got them crumbling you have got them too hot. these are only 280mm disks so there will be a lot of heat.
Ds3000's are the next level.

Dont blame disks because you overheated the brakes... Get better brakes, 2-piece disks and or higher temp rated pads if you find you get them that hot

On fitting, I had to linish down the pad backplates to fit the calipers slightly as out of the box they were too large and did bind up.

Below are 280mm disks also, elitptically grooved brembo disks, mated with ds2500's and motul rbf600 brake fluid. Inside the car totally oblivious to the pads working their little hearts out, with glowing disks. Oulton Park. 220bhp 970kg Lupo. Same size disks tho.

 

[tim124]

my standard pads, (inside piston side ones) had siezed up on both sides.
i filed them down so this fitted loosely but im wondering now whether i should have taken the shims out.

what is the point of the shims?

 

[c__w]

Usually to prevent noise/squeal

 

[Icarus]

So I shouldn't copper-slip the back of the pads then? Is there something I should use?

Make sure everything is absolutely spotless and fit them without any grease on the backs of the pad or anywhere else. They mail squeal but you won't end up with grease splattered all over your wheels and discs!

Cheers
M

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

i ran mine with copper slip on the ends, no need for it on the backs makes no difference and without the shims. they always fitted perfectly.

try putting carbone lorraines into the calipers, a lot smaller lol

 

[dzm]

Thanks for all the help. Very useful.

 

[elmo2002]

so what would people recommend for road use mixed with a fair bit of track use? DS2500's, DS3000's, Carbon Lorraine's or others?

 

[ForceIndia]

IMO, DS2500's are more than adequate for road/track use. Carbon Lorraine's get mixed reviews, couldn't comment on the ds3000's.

 

[rexe]

ummmmmm i was about to order a set of these, Might try the mintex 1144's.

Saying that i battered a set of red stuff's and they did me proud at coombe. I'm not really that heavy on the brakes in fairness so the ds2500's may work very well for me. They are cheap enough i guess.

Fred - Did you get me a price fella?

 

[c__w]

DS3000 are super high friction but the dust is also highly metallic and can damage your wheels and even the paint on the car as it can stick and rust.

Pagids are probably better pads although they are more expensive. I would look at EBC Yellowstuff over Ferodo DS2500.

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

so what would people recommend for road use mixed with a fair bit of track use? DS2500's, DS3000's, Carbon Lorraine's or others?

it all depends on how harder driver you are on track and how often you'll be on track. if you're a frequent trackday goer then i'd say get a good jack and a spare set for road and track. never takes too long to change over with the right tools.

running anything like ds3000's or carbone lorraines will ruin your wheels and it's not easy to take off of your paint work, as i found out. but they are so much better on track.

if you're only doing a few days here and there stick with ds2500's or std from personal experince. get good lines fitted and fluid and should be fine. or if you have the money get pagid blues, i've heard nothing but great reviews from mates and others in here and they don't leave too much dust iirc?

 

[Weeman]

3000's FTW, fcuk the wheels fcuk the paint!!! Detailing is for (**s, Like him ^^^

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

who said anything about detailing you muppet! have you seen my car lately.

PLdutchC

 

[Weeman]

Yeah, I hung the rake back up inside it last weekend, smells of turps?

 

[dzm]

As per advice here, I took the pads out this morning, cleaned off all the copper slip, filled a bit away from the edge of the backing plate (where the notch is) and refitted with each pad back in their original position. There's a bit more movement within the carriers now, so hopefully they won't bind and the dry backing plates mean no potential greasy disc/pad disasters.

I'll see how they go from here.