Frayz's Inferno 182 - Back in the old flame

[frayz]

Looks great as always! How you finding the noise with the seats removed?

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTT!!!!!!???


Lol, actually its not bad. Tyre noise from the 888s is the worst aspect. The exhaust is on grams mounts which transmit very little to the "speaker" that is the boot floor. Ive only driven to work in it so far but ive already found that my rear number plate vibrates so that will be dealt with first thing in the morning, as im not putting up with crap like that lol.
I also secured the bottoms of the rear door cards with some washers, HD foam and the original lower belt hardware as i didn't want any rattles from those either. To be honest apart from the tyres and piece of s**t PMS shifter, its actually very civilised and nice to drive.

Damping is down to 3 clicks on the rear and 6 clicks on the front and it drives and rides properly. I'm going to remove the front bumper brackets completely and allow for some further wheel travel and probably go softer again up front.
Damping compared to most coilovers on the street is exceptional, once im happy with how it is on the road in terms of damping i'll start adding a bit more to the rear roll bar if i need to get the rear to rotate a bit more.

All in all, it drives very tight for a road car.

 

[frayz]

If I was you (had you car) I would only being going custom for a rear cage, Id want it to be very flush with the pillars and to match the quality of the rest of the car.

Rear cage next please! 😄

Ha, I've been looking at the offerings from @Tom Johnson (Fulcrum Motorsport).
He seems to do a lovely job but as my car isn't a race car it would have to have very high levels of fit and finish to put a rear cage in it. Hopefully that can be achieved. Tom has already said he could make it fit tight and clean to the interior in the rear should i wish to go down that route. All panels, carpet and trim would have to remain including the rear doorcards.
It is however a red line in terms of reversability on the cars modifications. Obviously it involves welding inside the car of which Im sure if done well, it would complement the overall Clubsport package nicely.

 

[Usr117063]

I reckon it will look proper with one in. Just needs a nice linear turbo power curve to finish it off

 

[Clio_fool]

A half cage would finish the interior off nicely. Colour choice would be hard though.
As for more power I'd try matches inlets and group n timing with a map first and see what it makes. If it's not enough they are not wasted mods to put boost through!

 

[frayz]

A half cage would finish the interior off nicely. Colour choice would be hard though.
As for more power I'd try matches inlets and group n timing with a map first and see what it makes. If it's not enough they are not wasted mods to put boost through!

Got matched inlets at the mo and group n timing doesn't work on a boosted motor. I'm in 2 minds as i don't want to lose the delicacy of the NA motor but also very aware i can throw a few grand at it and have very little extra NA return. The RS2 is also something i've been looking at but i see it as a fancy airbox that will make a lovely racket, but as for any extra bhp, that's a bonus.
I don't really want to lose the AC etc either and all the nice things that keep it a pukka road car. So Supercharging isn't really a road i think i want to go down either.

The other thing that very much bothers me is daily reliability and the quality of the mapping. I'm incredibly fussy about this kind of stuff so it has to be right, cold starting, cruising, throttle tip in, idle, all of that has to be nice to use or its pointless.

I'm a big believer that a boosted setup can be very reliable and easy to live with if done correctly, just not sure if that's the route i want yet.

 

[frayz]

Oh and the cage colour is easy... black

 

[Clio_fool]

Shame supercharging can't be done without losing the ac. I wonder if it could be mounted where the airbox is and shaft driven 🤔. There's plenty of cheap Mercedes Eaton blowers on ebay😂. I need to find a dirt cheap 182 to play with😉.

 

[frayz]

Shame supercharging can't be done without losing the ac. I wonder if it could be mounted where the airbox is and shaft driven 🤔. There's plenty of cheap Mercedes Eaton blowers on ebay😂. I need to find a dirt cheap 182 to play with😉.

It probably could be done but ive neither the time, funds or inclination to want to lol. Money no object id drop a supercharged or ITB'd K20 in it on a Syvecs.
I know its a standing joke, but its just my daily driver and needs to remain somewhat budget/user friendly.
Im lucky enough to have another NA car so not too hung up if the Clio stays NA or not.

 

[Cookson]

Don't put a half cage in, it will look like a halfords special. Just go with a black brace bar where the seats used to be, half way up.

Maybe something like this, but chunkier

 

[frayz]

Don't put a half cage in, it will look like a halfords special. Just go with a black brace bar where the seats used to be, half way up.

Maybe something like this, but chunkier

View attachment 1479413

Those braces fit on the rear turrets which is both too low and too far back for my liking.
Why would it look like something from Halfords? I don't think Halfords sell cages?

 

[Clio_fool]

A half cage would look much better than one of those bolt in shopping stoppers imo. And have some purpose if you were to venture on track.

 

[David Stuart]

Proper cage or nothing for me. To get the level of finish you want I would prob go with a older r017 safety devices rear cage. Get it fitted and welding etc done, then remove it and get it painted / powder coated in a colour that matches or is a nice contrast to the car.

Once fitted it will look really nice.


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[frayz]

Tacky?

 

[David Stuart]

Tacky?
View attachment 1479414View attachment 1479415View attachment 1479416

Go for it mate. Get a proper cage and painted to a good finish.


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[frayz]

Go for it mate. Get a proper cage and painted to a good finish.


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David, if i do it, it will probably be a fulcrum cage and have it powdercoated.

 

[Usr117063]

The gold cage is tacky But the anthracite is lush!

 

[Ash J]

Nice update Frayz.

Belts and rear mat look great; very smart and understated, I like it.

I think a rear cage would look right at home in your car 👌

If you go for it, will you be fitting harnesses?

 

[frayz]

Nice update Frayz.

Belts and rear mat look great; very smart and understated, I like it.

I think a rear cage would look right at home in your car 👌

If you go for it, will you be fitting harnesses?

Cheers Ash,

If the cage goes in then yes, my red Schroths will go in till I can sort a black set. But the 3 point belts will stay as that's what i'll use day to day.

 

[frayz]

So, I now it’s late but just had to post lol.

I’m just home having had a tear up through the empty country lanes in the 182 and man it’s good to drive. It’s absolutely pin sharp, changes direction like a stabbed rat, damping is bang on and just feels mega To wring out.
The speed you can carry in it on the road is pretty damn impressive and I doubt on the road I’d be carrying a great deal more corner speed in the Cayman.

I’m gonna have a play with some turbocharged ones on Thursday in both low and high boost format, but right now I think I wanna stay NA.

I know it sounds daft but partially stripping the rear has made it feel even more alive to drive. Definitely a placebo effect but feels even more fun to be in. 🙂

 

[-Rob]

Those braces fit on the rear turrets which is both too low and too far back for my liking.
Why would it look like something from Halfords? I don't think Halfords sell cages?

But just imagine if they did..

I personally would go for a removable rear cage in black/inferno and the RS2 setup.

 

[gambit]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTT!!!!!!???


Lol, actually its not bad. Tyre noise from the 888s is the worst aspect. The exhaust is on grams mounts which transmit very little to the "speaker" that is the boot floor. Ive only driven to work in it so far but ive already found that my rear number plate vibrates so that will be dealt with first thing in the morning, as im not putting up with crap like that lol.
I also secured the bottoms of the rear door cards with some washers, HD foam and the original lower belt hardware as i didn't want any rattles from those either. To be honest apart from the tyres and piece of s**t PMS shifter, its actually very civilised and nice to drive.

Damping is down to 3 clicks on the rear and 6 clicks on the front and it drives and rides properly. I'm going to remove the front bumper brackets completely and allow for some further wheel travel and probably go softer again up front.
Damping compared to most coilovers on the street is exceptional, once im happy with how it is on the road in terms of damping i'll start adding a bit more to the rear roll bar if i need to get the rear to rotate a bit more.

All in all, it drives very tight for a road car.

Have to a agree that the PMS shifter on a daily is terrible! However for a weekend b road blast, its near perfection when your flat on it and punching through corners.

 

[gambit]

Oh and if you go NA, go ITB but go stand alone management with something that has a strategy for TPS and MAP sensor to give you the resolution to tune across both parameters for on road light load applications. Its all in the tuning strategy to get a setup right for the road and not the track.

 

[frayz]

Oh and if you go NA, go ITB but go stand alone management with something that has a strategy for TPS and MAP sensor to give you the resolution to tune across both parameters for on road light load applications. Its all in the tuning strategy to get a setup right for the road and not the track.

I wouldn’t go ITBs on a daily driver.
At most it would be an RS2 and some cams, rod bolts, oil cooler and knock the rpm limit up.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I would 100% stay normally aspirated personally. Like you have talked about, cams and some inlet tweaks and job done. If you can get it to around 200bhp, that will be more than enough.

Once you go forced induction, I think you sort of lose the purpose of the car really. It stops being an R.S. Clio somehow. Revvy, normally aspirated is the character of the car to me.

And do you really need more than 200bhp in a daily that ways c.1000kg? I'm not sure you do. The more grunt you add, the less time you can actually spend on the throttle. I really rated my Golf R and Meg 265, but even in those (which aren't that quick in the grand scheme of things), hard acceleration ended up being bursts of a few seconds, so not actually that enjoyable on our over crowded, camera infested roads. I found myself booting it and, after no time at all, you just have to think, "Oh no, I'm over the speed limit already, better back off". It becomes a bit frustrating in a way. In the Clio, it seems a lot of money to invest in something that you can't really use on the road.

Just my two pence worth anyway!

 

[Kev@KAM]

I wouldn’t go ITBs on a daily driver.

Why? The sound is great and theres absolutely no reliability issues if you have a decent kit. I drove a 205 on tb's daily for years.

 

[frayz]

Thanks for all your genuinely appreciated input guys, it’s all valid and I appreciate you taking to time to share your thoughts and expeo

Like i say, I’m not looking for monster bhp, I’ve been there and done that.

But I would like to try and explore and hopefully experience all avenues first.

Why? The sound is great and theres absolutely no reliability issues if you have a decent kit. I drove a 205 on tb's daily for years.

Because I lose AC, cruise, slam panel and bonnet catch, and (I imagine) need a decent ecu with enough resolution to make them drive as smoothly as an OEM vehicle.

Tell me I’m wrong and I’m happy to listen. 🙂

 

[Kev@KAM]

Thanks for all your genuinely appreciated input guys, it’s all valid and I appreciate you taking to time to share your thoughts and expeo

Like i say, I’m not looking for monster bhp, I’ve been there and done that.

But I would like to try and explore and hopefully experience all avenues first.

Because I lose AC, cruise, slam panel and bonnet catch, and (I imagine) need a decent ecu with enough resolution to make them drive as smoothly as an OEM vehicle.

Tell me I’m wrong and I’m happy to listen. 🙂

No...all valid reasons. I didnt have those luxuries to start with so lost nothing.
I forget no company ever really got a road kit ever figured out.

I have a tb'ed 205 at work so might give it a start up for nostalgic sounds lol

 

[frayz]

No...all valid reasons. I didnt have those luxuries to start with so lost nothing.
I forget no company ever really got a road kit ever figured out.

I have a tb'ed 205 at work so might give it a start up for nostalgic sounds lol

This is the draw of an RS2 but obviously then the apparent dark art of timing and mapping a motor to make it work.

At the moment it has an ITG Maxogen, some matched inlets and will have either an OEM cat or decat. Do I just add some group N timing and mapping and call it a day? 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I would do the cams and see how you feel. It's not that much money to try it (compared to forced induction anyway!), and you might think, "That's enough".

If you're still left wanting, you can then look at going further

 

[frayz]

I would do the cams and see how you feel. It's not that much money to try it (compared to forced induction anyway!), and you might think, "That's enough".

If you're still left wanting, you can then look at going further

Replacement or just GRP n settings and map?
If replacement, which ones, just 197 cams?

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Replacement or just GRP n settings and map?
If replacement, which ones, just 197 cams?

I'm probably not the best person to answer that, as I don't have much experience. My understanding is that the Group N timing gives a bit of a jump in torque though? That would probably appeal to me I think. If you can get the car to feel a bit more sprightly in the mid-range, it would give you the best placebo effect. Adding power to the top end probably isn't going to be that worthwhile in a daily and less you kick the cars head in everywhere.

 

[Rob G]

Love the attention to detail on this build dude!
Personally I'd say a cage would be a bit too try hard in a road car (plus potentially dangerous if you smack your head on it in a bump!).
Would be relatively easy to having something fabricated to fit into the isofix mounts similar to the club sport golfs etc. To give a bit of an enclosure for the boot

 

[frayz]

Love the attention to detail on this build dude!
Personally I'd say a cage would be a bit too try hard in a road car (plus potentially dangerous if you smack your head on it in a bump!).
Would be relatively easy to having something fabricated to fit into the isofix mounts similar to the club sport golfs etc. To give a bit of an enclosure for the boot

I can easily do that with the isofix points and already have some plans to that effect. The cage would only be a rear cage so no chance of hitting it as it would be behind me .

 

[Jekyll]

If you've liked the drive home recently, why not go for some cams and timing?

That way, its NA and still remain daily comforts, will give you the reliability piece of mind over boost, and would probably be the cheapest option for gain in NA form? Nothing changes in the engine bay either so still looks stock.

 

[Usr117063]

Whats the difference in reliability on a low boost (230hp ish) engine to a 230hp N/A?

 

[frayz]

Whats the difference in reliability on a low boost (230hp ish) engine to a 230hp N/A?

A lot!!

230bhp NA will be made using a hell of a lot of RPM and we all know a motors life expectancy gets rapidly shorter the further you go above the design ceiling for RPM.
230bhp turbocharged is produced at a lowly 7psi from a tiny turbocharger, rods hardware is subjected to a lot less stress. The cylinders are being filled artificially so to speak so the motor isn't doing a great deal of work at all.

 

[frayz]

If you've liked the drive home recently, why not go for some cams and timing?

That way, its NA and still remain daily comforts, will give you the reliability piece of mind over boost, and would probably be the cheapest option for gain in NA form? Nothing changes in the engine bay either so still looks stock.

I haven't ruled it out, but in reality its probably a £650 spend on some cams, plus install plus mapping. You wont see any change out of a grand i imagine and i'll be lucky to see 10bhp? 15 tops?
Would that even be felt on the road at anywhere below 6k rpm?

Genuinely im guessing here and honestly without driving one, i don't know.
Assuming my 182 is making 170bhp for example, id have to see 17bhp for a 10% increase.

230bhp/230lbsft turbocharged is a probably 60bhp jump and probably 80lbsft and arguably torque where you will use it most.
Again, i might very well drive it and decide its not for me, until i do. I just don't know.

 

[David Stuart]

You could get 190+ from cams and timing I would say.

I’ve got 197 cams but ITBs as well on my hillclimb car. It runs 175 ftlb torque and 210 bhp. You can definitely feel the difference over a standard car. But how much is cams or throttle bodies I don’t know.

I do feel you with the NA mods though. I’ve got a classic mini that I’ve eventually supercharged. I went from stock. To an upgraded head. To a better cam. Then fully mappable ecu. All in stood me £2k or there abouts and I had a grand total of 20bhp difference and it still didn’t feel that quick.

Whack a turbo on from the off and the change would be instant. But be careful not to change the character of the car if that’s what you enjoy.


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[botfch]

I think the best thing to do is find someone with a turbo clio who will let you have ago.
There’s something about being able to rev out a na engine that I always find myself missing with older style turbo’d cars.

 

[frayz]

I think the best thing to do is find someone with a turbo clio who will let you have ago.
There’s something about being able to rev out a na engine that I always find myself missing with older style turbo’d cars.

Driving a couple of Clio Turbos in the morning both low and high boost variants.
I'd also like to drive an RS2 powered car if anyone has one local to Essex that they would be kind enough to let me experience?