Fred and James’ Clio 182 Racecar Project

[VenomUK]

@Yorkshire Pudding I've always been told that as it can collapse the bearing.

I've never tackled a job like that YET... But would I be right in thinking the workaround would be to pop the shaft in if needing to drop the car and roll it around the workshop?

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

@Yorkshire Pudding I've always been told that as it can collapse the bearing.

I've never tackled a job like that YET... But would I be right in thinking the workaround would be to pop the shaft in if needing to drop the car and roll it around the workshop?

Yes you are right, would clamp the bearing in place how it is intended.

@Chambers_RS mentioned earlier on he uses 2 old cv joints to bolt in for moving the car around. Planning on doing the same, sure they’ll be useful in the future too.

would just swap out for a new bearing. Wouldn’t risk it personally.
I keep 2 old cv joints for rolling the car around with no shafts in 👍🏻

 

[VenomUK]

Thats a good idea, everyday is a school day

 

[Nafoff]

Nice to see someone else on here flip the car and wire wheel the lot themselves.... its effort isn't it (but at least you had a jig )
Great work so far, looks like things are coming along very nicely.

Interesting reading about the steering debate too... I am without PAS or EPAS, will see how I get on

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Nice to see someone else on here flip the car and wire wheel the lot themselves.... its effort isn't it (but at least you had a jig )
Great work so far, looks like things are coming along very nicely.

Interesting reading about the steering debate too... I am without PAS or EPAS, will see how I get on

Thanks, progressing well at the moment. Just need to keep momentum up to get in done soon, desperate to get in running and on track.

It certainly was! Seemed never ending at the time, the jig made it much easier though, hate to think about doing in without one. Not sure what to do with the jigs now though, just in the way but no doubt I’ll do it again at some point.

I know, I’ve never tried it without but @Tomotek is running without so it must be the best thing to do .

 

[Jamie86]

I run mine without any PAS and with a gripper dif and RCK.
No issues at race pace for me. You know about it in the paddock but that's about it.

Lovely build so far

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

I run mine without any PAS and with a gripper dif and RCK.
No issues at race pace for me. You know about it in the paddock but that's about it.

Lovely build so far

That’s good to hear .

Stage 2 for us will be to swap in a rebuilt engine and gearbox with a gripper diff too.

Thank you, appreciate it.

 

[Chambers_RS]

Mine setup currently on a manual quick rack from PMS.

It was great on the road and track etc even low speed was manageable. I’ve done 20/30 minutes stints at Mallory towards the end of day with pretty much empty track pushing hard and was prefect till the rear tyres got to hot and rear end let go. Thankfully was a pretty empty track as it snap left right left right and 180’d to a stop. Even with the quick rack it felt as if the heavy steering couldn’t react quick enough if that makes sense, and that’s at track day speeds. This made me think and I’ve now fitted a EPAS column to try it out and see how it feels eventually.

My last track car (seat Ibiza) felt twitchy with manual steering once camber was dialled in but the Clio chassis didn’t.

 

[Krarl]

Setting your castor properly helps with the heaviness of a manual rack

If you dont dial it in it will feel crap. My forearms and wrists took a battering after just half a day on track at CSF😂 Didnt moan though because I'm a big and strong boy

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Post number 9.

Been doing lots of smaller jobs since the last post so there is a fair bit to cover.

First up was getting the second hand gearbox we bought attached to the engine along with a new clutch. Then get the engine and gearbox in the car to workout a few bits. Decided to splash out and bought the PMS competition engine mounts. Mainly to get rid of the big OEM upper gearbox mount.

With the engine in it was time to mock up the radiator position and mounts. We wanted to future proof the initial work as much as possible so with the thinking of going to ITBs at some point a new radiator was needed. Went for a SE320 radiator from Advanced Radiators (based close by), can’t take any credit for thinking of the rad or mounts, copied @Tomotek on this one, couldn’t think of a better way of doing it. Going to get a couple of Mishimoto fans too.

Made a start at making a switch panel. Want the frame to just be bolted in place so that it can be changed at a later date if it’s not in the correct place. Want to mount the ECU Master CAN keyboard, fire extinguisher control unit and battery isolator buttons all together. Made it out of steel tube I already had, ideally would have gone for some smaller diameter tube but can always make a new one once the car is going. So played around with the position and just went for it. Don’t judge the welding, was my first go at TIG.

Will finish it off once the ECU Masters stuff is here.

Since the gearstick had been moved back 60mm the gear linkage needed to be extended and with the engine and gearbox in for the first time I was keen to get it connect and see how it felt. The PMS linkage is nice and easy to adjust and soon got reverse to 4th feeling really good but something isn’t right with 5th. Thought this was the linkage but feeling just the selector on the gearbox On its own it feels ‘sticky’ pushing in up (moving gear stick to the right for 5th). So will have to wait and see if this eases up or not. Will try and add a video in.

We bought a 172 cup alternator setup but instead of the aluminium alternator tensioner bracket I made a rod with opposing handed rod ends.

Next was making a set of sill stands. Again, made them from box section I already hand. Not sure if they will be more useful than axle stands but at least we have the option.

Will do another post this week to bring the thread up to date.

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Video of the gear shift.

 

[Usr117063]

All I can say is it took a lot of adjustment on mine (oem setup with yanoo stiff shift) to get reverse and 5th right, seems to be very sensitive to change

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

All I can say is it took a lot of adjustment on mine (oem setup with yanoo stiff shift) to get reverse and 5th right, seems to be very sensitive to change

I thought the same after adjusting it 4 or 5 times. But pushing up on the pin on the gearbox without the linkage attach it feels stiff so not sure if that is normal or bad news.

 

[Usr117063]

I thought the same after adjusting it 4 or 5 times. But pushing up on the pin on the gearbox without the linkage attach it feels stiff so not sure if that is normal or bad news.

Im not sure my self, I know that the selector seal in mine causes some play and inconsistent gear changes. @NorthloopCup

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Im not sure my self, I know that the selector seal in mine causes some play and inconsistent gear changes. @NorthloopCup

No doubt we’ll be rebuilding a box with a diff at some point but hoping this one would last us a bit.

The top of the box has had an extra plate welded on which fits flush to the engine which I am unsure about what it’s for too, may have been heavily used so on its way out.

 

[NorthloopCup]

If there’s no oil in the box, take the spring loaded plunger out (16mm socket/spanner flats) and see if that makes 5th feel any better. It’s right next to the selector on the box, so you can’t miss it.

 

[VenomUK]

Is that a DIY rollover jog?

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

If there’s no oil in the box, take the spring loaded plunger out (16mm socket/spanner flats) and see if that makes 5th feel any better. It’s right next to the selector on the box, so you can’t miss it.

Thanks. I’ll have a look, doubt there’s any oil it in though. Assuming it will loose off with some oil?

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Is that a DIY rollover jog?

Yes it is. Not much to it compared to others I’ve seen but did the job.

 

[VenomUK]

@FPummell That's Ideal, I was looking at making one as I plan on doing the same next year with the Clio

 

[NorthloopCup]

Thanks. I’ll have a look, doubt there’s any oil it in though. Assuming it will loose off with some oil?

If there’s oil in it, it’ll piss all out the hole mate

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Post number 10.

Next job was brake lines.

Using Atec fittings like the fuel lines. First heard of these from @Tomotek build thread, and he’s right they do look and feel amazing. Using PA-coated steel pipe, just used a small laser pipe bender which worked a treat, the 4.75mm steel pipe is much easier to deal with than the aluminium tube used for the fuel lines. But in the exact same way, used welding filler rods to make templates, then copied these templates in the steel tube.

At each of the corners I have used bulkhead fittings with a male jic 3 fitting. These will then accept custom flexible lines to the callipers.

I used the Sealey PFT/02 flaring tool, seemed to do the job nicely but suppose I won’t find out until the first time I try bleeding the system.

These are the list of fittings used for each of the two runs.

Front Hardline System (Starting from the master cylinder)

1. Brake tube 4.75mm Steel Black Poly Coating 1035.0347
2. Tube nut 4.76mm M10x1 649.456
3. Tube nut 4.76mm M10x1 649.456
4. M10x1 bulkhead tee 649.454
5. 2 X Tube nut 4.76mm M10x1 649.456
6. 2 X Tube nut 4.76mm M10x1 649.456
7. 2 X Straight bulkhead M10x1 female to D3 male JIC 649.452

Since the photos above I have added another bulkhead tee in the front system on the LHS chassis rail to accept a brake pressure sensor at a later date. Thought it was best to get the fitting and pipe in now so it’s easy to add the sensor later on, so currently it has another bleed nipple.

Rear Hardline System

1. Brake tube 4.75mm Steel Black Poly Coating 1035.0347
2. Tube nut 4.76mm M12x1 649.458 (original master cylinder had a M10 fitting but the new replacement one we got had one M10 and one M12 for some reason)
3. Tube nut 4.76mm M10x1 649.456
4. Bulkhead 90 degree M10 Female to M10 Female 649.910
5. Tube nut 4.76mm M10x1 649.456
6. Tube nut 4.76mm 3/8” UNF 649.899 (tube nut for bias valve)
7. Tube nut 4.76mm 3/8” UNF 649.899 (tube nut for bias valve)
8. Non Atec tube nut to handbrake 7/16 UNF
9. Non Atec tube nut from handbrake 3/8 UNF
10. Tube nut 4.76mm M10x1 649.456
11. Bulkhead 4 way tee M10x1 649.660
12. M10x1 Bleed nipple
13. 2 X Tube nut 4.76mm M10x1 649.456
14. 2 X Tube nut 4.76mm M10x1 649.456
15. 2 X Bulkhead 90 degree M10x1 female to D3 male JIC 649.450

Kieron from Atec was really helpful but if you want any more details on the fittings I used then just give me a shout.

Next up was painting and wrapping the manifold. Used Etech XHT paint and then wrapped with DEI Titanium exhaust wrap attached with stainless steel ties.

Replaced the standard heatshield with some dual layer aluminium stuff, 600 x 600mm sheet did the job perfectly, also covered the steering rack. Fixed it to the bulkhead with M6 rivnuts and some original bolt holes.

I had already done the internal fuel lines so needed to finish the hardline engine bay lines. This included a single 8mm tube for the fire extinguisher. The hardline fuel line then transitions to flexible 400 series pipe along with the dry break connector.

I decided to make some pedal foot rests as the standard ones were very worn, I will cover these with some non slip tape.

That’s now up to date with where I am at. This weekend I intend to get the engine in and new drive shafts fitted.

 

[Nafoff]

Coming along really really nicely,
the dry-break in the fuel line is posh as.... like that a lot

Good progression mate

 

[Franky212]

Just out of interest what do you think will be the overall cost to complete the car literally from buying it to having it done

 

[Franky212]

The reason i ask is i have seen these competition clios for sale for under 20k is that a fair price or expensive or cheap because i imagine if you have one of these you could drive like an absolute wally witch is the standard im at an have a horific crash an still get out an be ok cos the cheap hack ive got seems ok but i doubt it would be of much use if i had a big crash in it a n i would like to have a good crack at it i guess my point is is it worth say 20k to be able to go a bit more mental in it an when it all goes tits up be able to walk away or is it better off just going gentle an saving the money

 

[Nafoff]

The reason i ask is i have seen these competition clios for sale for under 20k is that a fair price or expensive or cheap because i imagine if you have one of these you could drive like an absolute wally witch is the standard im at an have a horific crash an still get out an be ok cos the cheap hack ive got seems ok but i doubt it would be of much use if i had a big crash in it a n i would like to have a good crack at it i guess my point is is it worth say 20k to be able to go a bit more mental in it an when it all goes tits up be able to walk away or is it better off just going gentle an saving the money

Not answering for @FPummell but £20k is a rough price I had in mind.... BUT I am sure I have spent over that on my build, I am very very confident in that.
But reading what you have said I think there are 2 different points....
1. You don't need lots of money and a big spec car to have fun
2. If you are concerned for your safety as you intend to push hard perhaps invest what you do have in a roll cage, good set of bucket seats and harnesses first

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Coming along really really nicely,
the dry-break in the fuel line is posh as.... like that a lot

Good progression mate

Thanks, appreciate it.

It‘s very satisfying connecting and disconnecting it. Just about worth the money.

 

[Franky212]

Not answering for @FPummell but £20k is a rough price I had in mind.... BUT I am sure I have spent over that on my build, I am very very confident in that.
But reading what you have said I think there are 2 different points....
1. You don't need lots of money and a big spec car to have fun
2. If you are concerned for your safety as you intend to push hard perhaps invest what you do have in a roll cage, good set of bucket seats and harnesses first

The car ive got has all that kit in it already i just know what im like im flat out and im sure ill have a s**t load of fun in my cheap hack just interesting to see the difference for instance how much more fun youd have in a 20k car than a 2k car im used to bikes so cars dont really compare speed wise but cornering an that interest me in a car without sounding like a prick but the financial side isnt a problem but im not stupid i dont see the point in tippin in 20k to not actually be like blown away by the difference if thats the case ill by a new jet ski my and i dont know but i think a 20k clio track car would be more funt than say a 40k bmw road car

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Just out of interest what do you think will be the overall cost to complete the car literally from buying it to having it done

The reason i ask is i have seen these competition clios for sale for under 20k is that a fair price or expensive or cheap because i imagine if you have one of these you could drive like an absolute wally witch is the standard im at an have a horific crash an still get out an be ok cos the cheap hack ive got seems ok but i doubt it would be of much use if i had a big crash in it a n i would like to have a good crack at it i guess my point is is it worth say 20k to be able to go a bit more mental in it an when it all goes tits up be able to walk away or is it better off just going gentle an saving the money

Not answering for @FPummell but £20k is a rough price I had in mind.... BUT I am sure I have spent over that on my build, I am very very confident in that.
But reading what you have said I think there are 2 different points....
1. You don't need lots of money and a big spec car to have fun
2. If you are concerned for your safety as you intend to push hard perhaps invest what you do have in a roll cage, good set of bucket seats and harnesses first

At the moment we have spent £14,489. That has been between 2 of us and over the past 2 years. And it also includes a big service (£900) as soon as we bought the car before the gearbox went bang which then lead to things escalating. We have bought all the parts to get the car going, this doesnt include the dash or PDM which aren’t necessary but certainly a nice to have, so as @Nafoff said it will likely be around 20k by the time we are done. Then if you were paying someone to do any of the work it would soon increase drastically I would imagine.

But there are lots of expensive items in there which are not necessary at all if you just want to have fun on a track day and still be safe. So if we just did a roll cage, seat, harness, fire extinguisher it would have been £4k. But as we intend to race it doing all the changing to suspension, fuel lines, brake lines etc we feel is worth it.

I’m not sure how I would feel about buying something second hand and not knowing the quality of the work or how much of a hammering the car had been through.

 

[Franky212]

Those were my thoughts i think if i were to do it in a bigger way id have to have someone build me one because ok your still not doing it yourself but atleast you no the complete story ware the parts came from blah blah blah are you in a position to for instance source a car that is good and do whats needed to make it safe enough to use to its absolute max is that something you would consider doing i understand it would be expensive i know most trades people are on a wage of probably £25 to say £50 an hour so i certainly dont expect or want it to be cheap would you say that for instance a 20k clio is alot more fun than say buying a i dont know a 35k bmw m3 or something of that nature im talking about actual driving experience an enjoyment of actual driving not just puttin your foot down and going fast cos for that i have a friend who has a sweedish car koinseg or some thing like that thats fast but its just another ferari type smoke dont really get a buzz from that

 

[robzracing]

Those were my thoughts i think if i were to do it in a bigger way id have to have someone build me one because ok your still not doing it yourself but atleast you no the complete story ware the parts came from blah blah blah are you in a position to for instance source a car that is good and do whats needed to make it safe enough to use to its absolute max is that something you would consider doing i understand it would be expensive i know most trades people are on a wage of probably £25 to say £50 an hour so i certainly dont expect or want it to be cheap would you say that for instance a 20k clio is alot more fun than say buying a i dont know a 35k bmw m3 or something of that nature im talking about actual driving experience an enjoyment of actual driving not just puttin your foot down and going fast cos for that i have a friend who has a sweedish car koinseg or some thing like that thats fast but its just another ferari type smoke dont really get a buzz from that

Part of the fun for me is building and working on these cars and I definitely wouldn't have the budget to pay someone else to build it anyway. That said, I'm still easily into £20k. For that money though I have a very competitive car that is always at the sharp end of 30-40 car grids.

Also worth mentioning that if you are starting from scratch, spending money on safety really can't be overstated. As witnessed by one of our race colleagues last weekend at Thruxton which he managed to walk away from.

 

[Franky212]

oh wow that is an awesome car mate thats the sort of thing I'm talking about nice colour

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Completely agree with you @robzracing. I enjoy the work in the garage just as much. So it’s not just about the end result for me. I would imagine I’ll get a buzz from people appreciating the car as well as driving it.

That crash in the tin tops race was awful to watch! Amazing he managed to get himself out.

I haven’t met many people who wouldn’t get a buzz from a koenigsegg or a Ferrari.

Will see how my first car turns out before deciding what to do in the future.

 

[Franky212]

Don't get me wrong I think its because cars like that are just like pay 150k done theres not really anything in it I suppose its all down to the individual and I've had extremely fast bikes perviously so i suppose once youve done that its gona be hard for any car to compare watching that video again jesus what were all the stewards an that doing they just minced about guy got himself out the car great crash tho if your gonna do it then do it in style amazing how well the car stayed together

 

[Twingo 1??]

@FPummell. This has to be upthere in the top builds on the forum imo. I am not into racing/track cars (going round in circles is not for me) But the build quality, enthusiasm and imformative updates are all something to be proud off especially if this is the first thing you have built.
I am on my second rally car build and each time you learn so hopefully they get better!
Some of these so called competition car builders are leagues behind you.
Keep up the good work and if I pinch any ideas I am sorry lol.

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

@FPummell. This has to be upthere in the top builds on the forum imo. I am not into racing/track cars (going round in circles is not for me) But the build quality, enthusiasm and imformative updates are all something to be proud off especially if this is the first thing you have built.
I am on my second rally car build and each time you learn so hopefully they get better!
Some of these so called competition car builders are leagues behind you.
Keep up the good work and if I pinch any ideas I am sorry lol.

Thank you very much! Glad you think so.

I would be very happy for people to copy what I’ve done. Not sure why someone would be unhappy about others copying to be honest, best form of praise.

However I have copied lots from other too so can’t take it all to be my own.

I could be tempted to go down the rally route at some point. Is there much going on up here or do you go all round the country?

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Post number 11.

Been too long since doing a post but been busy with the car at least. Had the engine running last weekend so need to update the last months work so I can do the start up post, only had a few problems.

Next job was to get the engine in but decided to add some DEI reflective heat shield to the tunnel before I did so. Nice easy job which made a change.

Hopefully this will be the final time putting the engine in before the car is running, got the knack of getting the engine in and out now, just need to get engine tilted in the right way and it’s a doddle, having the right kit does also help a lot.

Coolant hoses worked a treat. Used a standard 182 set from MTC and to bypass the heater matrix used a u bend piece. Even with the different radiator and orientation the hoses worked pretty much perfectly. My plan is to have an aluminium coolant tank and catch can but the standard one will do for the time being.

I have already done the fuel hard lines so needed to sort the tank and rail flexi lines. I decided to get Atec to crimp the OEM fittings to their dash 6 400 series hose. So sent Atec the hoses cut to length and the OEM fittings, they came back perfect so glad I did it.

Since I had the flexi lines back meant I could fit the fuel tank, so added some more reflective heat shield material for where the exhaust gets close and got the tank in. Fuel hose worked perfectly with the right angled fitting from the tank, hose coils round and then used a 30 degree fitting to the bulkhead fitting of the hardline.

Same as the fuel lines, the brake hard lines had been done but needed to do the flexi lines. The Atec fittings and 600 series hose are really nice and relatively straight forward to do. Just make sure to buy the mandrel tool, made splaying the braided part of the hose away from the inner tube nice and easy. Used stainless steel adaptors to convert the an-3 hose fitting to M10x1.0 calliper.

Was then getting very close to getting some electrics in the car.

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Post number 11 continued.

Also gave the garage a good tidy as it was starting to get messy. And whilst cleaning decided to give the floor a paint as a fair bit of it had either worn through or flaked off. Now looking like it should.

 

[Usr117063]

Great stuff 😊 But what is that brake t piece at the n/s used for?

 

[FrogJam Motorsport]

Great stuff 😊 But what is that brake t piece at the n/s used for?

Thanks.

Currently it just has a bleed nipple in there but my plan is to put a pressure sensor in there, thought I would get the fitting in whilst doing the pipe work.