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GDi / AWT 195 BHP Clio 172!!!!!
- Thread starter BigBarry172
- Start date
WILL the AWT cams work effectively with an R-sport ecu? Also, same question with the inlet manifold?
I find the r-sport a bit rich anyway with standard airbox and inlet manifold, so more air would make it a bit leaner, for the better, but how about the CAM>>?
Cheers
KR
I find the r-sport a bit rich anyway with standard airbox and inlet manifold, so more air would make it a bit leaner, for the better, but how about the CAM>>?
Cheers
KR
KR, how have you identified that its too rich.
basically, the Cams togother with with manifold work will make the car run lean, its recomended that at the very least an AFR check is done....
however I have done this on several cars already and off the shelf chips did not provide the fueling required for power and safe running.
having said that, your probably ok with the inlet alone with a "chip" per say, but again as above... a car that can make 10 bhp more from just manifold work is flowing a lot more air and therefore ought to need some fueling correction
basically, the Cams togother with with manifold work will make the car run lean, its recomended that at the very least an AFR check is done....
however I have done this on several cars already and off the shelf chips did not provide the fueling required for power and safe running.
having said that, your probably ok with the inlet alone with a "chip" per say, but again as above... a car that can make 10 bhp more from just manifold work is flowing a lot more air and therefore ought to need some fueling correction
Ben and Andy, congratulations on what looks like the perfect high performance saloon package, with the ideal usable shape power curve. No doubt a lot of this is down to the cams, and from the brief specs that you mentioned above you have gone for the holy grail of moderate period and high lift; the only thing that worries me is that this normally brings very high accelerations and closing loads. Have you yet enough experience of them to know whether this brings any durability problems? I am led to believe that this sort of profile can in some circumstances generate such high shear stresses that the oil film between the cam and follower starts to break down - perhaps because the engine is not revving to much over 7,000 this is not an issue - what do you reckon?
Regards
Regards
George k said:
It certainly has been taken into consideration
Went into detail in another thread, but cant be bothered to find it.
Basically, alot of time was spent arranging a profile with gentle initial flanks and a nice acceleration curve that wont overdo what the std springs can handle. The BCD is about 2mm larger than stock, and 1mm larger than shrick, so with the profile run, you can see that things are very 'gentle'. With early cam tests on UK firms 'regrind' offerings, the bcd's were substantiall smaller than stock, and they would tap to high heaven because the hydraulic pivots would be at max extension and not be able to take up enough clearance. Add high acceleration rates, high clearances and the valves were effectively being beaten with a hammer and raw float/bounce, aswell as resonant harmonics were out of control.
The std followers are mini roller radius path followers, so shear forces on the rollers themselves are not high in any instance, however without a hydrodynamic wedge infront of the lobe as per a normal static face sweep area, it cannot be judged in the same manner.
Durability isnt an issue, for the cam, or the follower.
Ben , thanks very much - now appreciate the significance of your working from billets - as increasing the base circle is obviously the clue. Many years ago I had the privilege of working with one of the world's leading F1 cam designers, whose speciality is the mathematical modelling of the rotational and hence torsinal dynamics of the whole valve train including the crank and drive gears. He goes as far as to overlay for the TV's at each lobe so calculating the actual accelaration at each station - and as aby-product he could assess the shear stresses - very accurately as it turned out. As you will gather I picked up the odd crumb from his table; hence my question - particularly as 11.5 mm lift is stunning.
Thanks and regards
Thanks and regards
matty w said:
all i was saying, as is made clear by benR's resposne, if new more of him, then he would probably not felt the need to ask, all i was saying is that I trust ben enough to not doubt his products. If i had the money I would quite happily give ben a 182 to work on and the funds to do all the development work he needed to get the most he could of the engine without going forced induction
Car could go to Ben/Andy at the end of next season, if they would still wish to do it, provided my wife does not remind me that this is the umpteenth car that I have promised not to modify (after all I did sell her MX5 to buy the Trophy!! and she does point out quite validly that we have an old house which always needs things doing to it). Also depends on speed trap readings and handling as to where I will get the biggest pay-back. Have posted elswhere about the limited choice of proper track tyres in 205/45 x 16 with the soft compounds that are necessary for sprints and hillclimbs(Kumho and Hankook and the RS2 is hard at 200 treadwear index).
George made a very very valid and refreshing question. And tbh, the more people that ask questions like him, the more you will see knowledgable and thus better infromed/prepared tuners stand out and highlighted for your own benefit.
And george, i wouldnt put myself at f1 technical level! hahaha.....but we know enough to get by eh.
In terms of what will aid you best in hillclimbs and short circut sprints, in all honesty, short circut stuff you will want to move to some substantially stiffer suspension, especially if you aquire some proper rubber. The trophy is excellent, but its no competition car when things get heated.........gotta keep the car rolling to keep the weight on those loaded michelins eh!
Unless your talking of another 25-35bhp, it doesnt make too much diff in a car with interior, and i assume the classes your interested in require full interior?
But i'll be comming out with some new tid bits in early feb to keep the evolution ball rolling along.
And george, i wouldnt put myself at f1 technical level! hahaha.....but we know enough to get by eh.
In terms of what will aid you best in hillclimbs and short circut sprints, in all honesty, short circut stuff you will want to move to some substantially stiffer suspension, especially if you aquire some proper rubber. The trophy is excellent, but its no competition car when things get heated.........gotta keep the car rolling to keep the weight on those loaded michelins eh!
Unless your talking of another 25-35bhp, it doesnt make too much diff in a car with interior, and i assume the classes your interested in require full interior?
But i'll be comming out with some new tid bits in early feb to keep the evolution ball rolling along
.MarkM said:Dont you love it when Ben talks technical.
I think there are a number of cars running these cams now. I was told about the R&D Ben put in to finding this profile and although I am not technical I am sure Ben would not be selling a product he was not confident with.
neither would I, which is why we have been working closly on this one.....
and i am very happy with them...
This is a good thread, what I have always aimed for is being helpfull and informative to our customers.
I have found over the yrs that most people want to be involved in what we are doing... hence why most of the time I enourage people in to see what we are doing... we dont plonk people in a room and then just hand them the bill....
Both Ben and I take alot of pics of the work we do, and with big builds provide these via cd or email so you can see the internals and the work thats gone into the job...
I have found over the yrs that most people want to be involved in what we are doing... hence why most of the time I enourage people in to see what we are doing... we dont plonk people in a room and then just hand them the bill....
Both Ben and I take alot of pics of the work we do, and with big builds provide these via cd or email so you can see the internals and the work thats gone into the job...
E91 M Sport
Andy GDI said:
If you did, would it be a warm room with a TV?
I've visited GDI a few times and it's a great environment for the work that goes on there; lots of communication and nothing to hide. Stay long enough and the tea appears too!
James said:
Dash lights when useing the OMEX are SERV, ESP, Emmissions and I think ECU(a square with a jagged line inside it) As far as I am aware brakes, oil lights still monitor and are not permanently on. You notice them intitally but after a while you forget about them.
I can see some people having an issue with this though and if it is just get the SMT not the OMEX.
I imagine in order to get rid of them you could always take the LEDs out.
You can simply email me at Ben@angel-works.co.uk.
But all new bits and bobs get released on here aswell.
Plus, over this holiday period i'm aiming to finish the website content.
But all new bits and bobs get released on here aswell.
Plus, over this holiday period i'm aiming to finish the website content.
