Graham's summer 172 cup track car

[dann2707]

Just read this again! Awesome.

I see you were looking at selling the cage? I'll buy it price dependant! I'm after one asap.

 

[GrahamS]

Good thread mate, lots of ideas!

Ive got 25mm2 battery cable, was that what you had before that was to thin?

Cheers matey, slow progress but I'll get there in the end....if there is an end.

Looks awesome.

What you doing with the brake ducts you have fitted? I'm after some but thought CMC had gone?

Thank you Your car is a big inspiration. I'm actually now keeping the ducts because the new ones didn't work well with the cutting I'd already done to the bumper. CMComposites is still going matey but the site isn't up. Message Chris Mallinson on facebook and he should take orders. The closing was all hype apparently!

Just read this again! Awesome.

I see you were looking at selling the cage? I'll buy it price dependant! I'm after one asap.

Thanks Dan, far from where I want it but is a lot of smiles per miles.

Update 2
Very slow progress unfortunately. Everything always take a lot longer than expected so barely any of my list is complete. The big thing is though, it's passed the MOT last night after failing the previous day on a front wheel bearing and ineffective handbrake on the O/S. Luckily they were both a free fix, the hub nut was loose for some reason and the o/s cable had been replaced, fitted backwards and adjusted to be too tight. I took a few pics to explain what was going wrong. As the new cable was shorter and not stretched the hand brake as a result was already part engaged all the time. This meant when I pulled the handbrake the leaver on the caliper was at the wrong angle and as a result the rotation of the mechanism pushed the pin upwards instead of sideways. Sorry for boring pics. Hopefully you can see how when the lever rotates it pushes the caliper out and that by being at the wrong angle the direction of movement is wrong.

Correct rest position

Correct handbrake on position (this was my rest position)

Incorrect on position. Notch in lever moves lug the wrong way.

Boring bit over.
Sorted out the misfire. Measured the cold resistance of the injectors, three at 14.5 and one at 7.1. Of course it was on the second cylinder where I had the black sparkplug. @Iain C came to the rescue, really appreciate that matey

Today was roof scoop time. Underside and inside in satin black and the outside in fluorescent Halfords green. This took way way longer than I thought it would and I did make a small mistake centre punching the template a couple of CM too far back. The venting holes are 38mm so I can put grommets in if it ever it downpours and I'm out. I've also hammerite'd the holes to try and prevent corrosion and run a foam strip around the edge of the top section to prevent whistling whilst it's all closed up. The green is awfully thin and I genuinely forgot to primer, I even bought the can! Will have to do it again at some point but for now it's definitely working very well. One thing I would recommend to anyone else doing this job, tape a plastic bag under where you drill the holes, the metal filings go everywhere and are sharp buggers which stick in seat material. Big thanks to @M.C.. for the very helpful pictures.

 

[M.C..]

Looking good mate.

 

[Iain C]

Arrgh you cut the roof!!

 

[Timmsy]

Nice one mate. Starting to come along again.
I can help you out with that rad hose if you need it still

 

[GrahamS]

Update 3 - PMS shifter
Thanks for the comments chaps Turns out I'm also working on the car this week too so am trying to finish the car totally so it's ready for a track day with no panic prep needed. Did a couple of bits today. Couldn't easily sort the 172 manifold knocking on the subframe so have swapped it back to the 182 manifold and link pipe. I did a timed removal of the subframe assembly and had it free in 26 minutes While I was doing the manifold the shifter turned up so I got that fitted too whilst the exhaust was off. Instead of using sealant on the unit like in the PMS instructions I took the rubber seal out of the original shifter unit and put it over the tower. It should do the job of keeping noise and exhaust leaks out.

After a drive, it's confirmed, the change from standard feels fantastic and I can't wait to use it on the circuit.

Took a moment to clean and regrease everything.

I haven't re-fitted this boot but assume it's not needed. Thoughts welcome on that.

one last pic of how the car stands at the moment


Rest of the week consists of

• Braided lines
• Gearbox mount
• Battery cable
• New EPAS column
• Harnesses.
• Few bits on my 182

 

[dann2707]

Nice one dude! That looks cracking.

That boot will be to stop getting any water and dirt into the original filtration module. I'd definitely refit as you won't want that getting into your nice shiny bearings.

 

[GrahamS]

As always nothing goes to plan. Went to three shops this morning to try and get a deep 18 socket or 12mm spark plug spanner for the gearbox mount to no avail. I also attempted to fit the braided lines today and the unions appear to be seized. I didn't try to hard as I don't yet own a brake pipe spanner but that'll be used on the next try. Can anyone confirm if the spanner is metric 11 or it is a nasty x/16ths size?

Did two more bits today though. Got the dash out and the column replaced although this hasn't cured the very light centre of the steering so I'm going to look at the boss next.
After a bit of time I've replaced the cabin side of the battery cable with 35mm high flex, using rivnuts and p clips to secure it. Have to say I'm very happy with it and plan to fit the FIA cut off and remaining engine bay section when time allows. In the end I'm planning on getting a small battery to replace this hunk but funds are running dry until August.

Also fitted the blanking plate for where the radio controls used to be but forgot to get a pic. Thanks @Timmsy for that bit, looks great now.

I'm all cupped out at the moment so will take a break for a bit, do the harnesses another time and sort out my 182 before going on holiday!

 

[Timmsy]

No worries buddy, glad it could go to good use.
Car is coming along nicely too. Did you say you were down the way this weekend?

 

[Akay]

Hi mate, dont happen to know what track rods your using? I fitted standard 172 ones to my DCI rack and they are way too short! Not sure whether I need DCI or cup ones!

Thanks.

 

[Iain C]

I've got a spark plug spanner

 

[GrahamS]

@Timmsy It'll be in a few weeks as I'm just about to go away for a couple of week Will drop you a text when I'm going to be down.
@Akay Forgot to answer your last question too! The original cable was 16mm, terrible non-flex 7 wire core junk. The new one is 35mm high flex with some of these as terminals for the battery. Starts much better now. The tie rods I've got on mine were the original cup ones. The width of the rack is the same as the standard so you shouldn't have any problems. I've just swapped over the rods on three occasions now and when I converted my DCi to 172 running gear I used the DCi track rods. Failing what you've got currently get some first line FTR5277

 

[GrahamS]

Plans for next week
Engine swap for the 182 engine with 438s
TTV billet flywheel
Sort steering
Harnesses

Then a track day needs to happen.

 

[Mash.]

Let me know what date your booking! As i'll be up for another!

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[GrahamS]

Let me know what date your booking! As i'll be up for another!

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Certainly will matey. It's likely going to be something at the weekend as it's difficult to get time off work before September :'(

I should really write this update later when the car is running but my energy to finish the job is low this morning so I'd rather sit here while the mcdonalds coffee kicks in.

As some of you may have seen I broke my 182 this week as it was using lots of oil (for a daily) and was too expensive to justify running in London. Rarely did I get to put my foot down in it so it's been replaced with another frugal and cheap as chips clio dci. Anyway, the 182 had 438 cat cams, I'm sure you can see where this is going. I'm in the process of swapping the the engine from the 182 to the cup to get some fun out of the car this summer. At the weekend I went out in @meekings14 car, it was brilliant fun and ridiculously fast so turbo needs to happen soon, the cams will tide me over until then and be fun in the process with the lovely revvy flywheel. Let the pictures and video commence!

Ooo billet flywheel. Believe this is one of @NorthloopCup TTV ones. Absolutely love these things and have had them on two previous clios so was pleased to see one come up for sale.

Engine removed from the 182

Removed the engine from the cup. Thought this was a good opportunity for a time lapse. Took about 2 hours which is condensed into 30 seconds


Cleaned up the engine bay a little although I didn't have any degreaser so brake cleaner had to do. Left hand side is done below.

Engine out

Vibratechnic gearbox mount from @Timmsy old ph1. Yes I have the shiney washer on top

Mess

Crack in the upper alternator bracket. Will have to get a new one but I've fitted it for now.

It looked like the 172 clutch was on it's last legs. Luckily the 182 had a replacement at some point in it's life so I opted to use that one (second photo).

The rear main cap on the 182 engine is rather leaky. Controversial I know but I haven't done anything about this because the engine is a stop gap until I rebuild the engine I've taken out and the additional expense isn't something I could take at the moment.

Flywheel on with new flywheel bolts.

Clutch on

All ready to go back in the car

Finally at 9pm I got the engine back in the car.

Today's task is to get the car back up and running which I hope to have done by lunch time. While I'm at it I'm going to swap the whole lower suspension assembly over from the 182 as it's got pretty much brand new lower arms, ARB bushes, inner tie rods and track rod ends. Praying to the gods this sorts my EPAS issue out too but I'm not hopeful.

More updates later

 

[dann2707]

Fantastic work mate! @Louis' that is our record to beat taking an engine out haha

Keep it up graham man!

 

[GrahamS]

Fantastic work mate! @Louis' that is our record to beat taking an engine out haha

Keep it up graham man!

Thanks Dan. Much quicker to take out than put back, torquing everything up correctly took an age.

Thanks everyone for all the likes too.
No interesting pictures today I'm afraid as after all the work the car looks absolutely identical.

In the end I swapped the whole 182 front subframe set up onto the car as I replaced everything on the 182 only 3k ago and it's made a big difference to the poise it has in the corners. Thankfully the steering feels much better as I was getting fed up with it preventing me going on track. There is still a hint of it being easy to turn left but this can probably be explained by the rear beam being bent like a banana. Aside the steering the car is fantastic now, revs very fast and really does push you into your seat when on cam, love it. Track day booking very very soon.

Before

After

 

[GrahamS]

Not a huge amount of changes on the car of late but a few things have happened to me for the better.
First is this after three great years it all came to a close very quickly.

Luckily the second part is me starting a grad job which is very enjoyable so far. Now there's a bit more to spend on track days and the car it's self. Plans are big but saving for a house will put a hold on a lot of them for at least 12 months. Two things I'm going to get done though asap are the full cage and engine rebuild with the assistance of the below purchase. Not sure how I'm going to build and engine in the flat but I'll do my best

Onto the real car bits. Having blown 100db the other day I had to buy one of these and might fit it before the next track day.

Then came the second vent for the roof scoop which just popped in. It only came with one so has been needing one for a while. That breeze was quite chilly at night. Finally I fitted some permanent USBs and a go pro power feed so I no longer have to worry about running out of battery while recording. I still need to do a little bit of testing with this but it's a really clean install, only took half an hour and has given me 2 USBs on top of the original 12v. The second one will be used for a phone or something similar. While fitting this I took a few videos which I might mash into an install video but am not sure yet.

Anywho, I'm doing bedford with @Martin. on the 20th August so come by and say hello if you see me about

TTFN, ta ta for now.

 

[dann2707]

Congrats on graduating Graham mate!

 

[Chambers_RS]

Congrats :up:

That usb install does look neat, how did you wire that in?

 

[GrahamS]

Congrats on graduating Graham mate!

Congrats :up:

That usb install does look neat, how did you wire that in?

Sorry chaps I forgot to reply. Thank you

The USB is really simple, it just wires into any 12v source. I'll get a pic at the weekend. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252370696746

 

[GrahamS]

Evening chaps, quick update on a couple of bits.
Car is pretty much ready for the track day at the weekend. Saturday just gone @Martin. and I spent the day sorting out a few bits on both our cars. For me that involved finally fitting the new harnesses, new cup alternator bracket and fitting the centre resonator on the exhaust.

New harnesses are brilliant in comparison to the old ones and now rest across my hips instead of across all my internal organs. 6 point Schroth profi for driver and 4 point OMP saloon for the passenger. The exhaust was a bit of a nightmare but we got there in the end after using a plank of wood and several hammers to separate the two halves of the exhaust. It's a lot quieter now but the induction noise makes up for it.

Few jobs to do before Saturday

• top up coolant
• new r888 on spare wheels
• nut and bolt check
• new EPAS power wire

I've got a PMS strut brace and top mounts on the way so will fit them if I get the chance.
Unfortunately my photos were lacking on the day so these are the only two. I've got a new car though, it's a 330d se auto with 102k on. It's a lovely car for the money and has leather, professional nav, xenons, elec folding mirrors plus a couple of other bits. There are a couple of problems like a small oil leak, one puddle light is broken and a wheel bearing has gone but it's nothing that can't be fixed with ease. Maybe it'll become a tow car one day.

Graham having the harnesses fitted. Sorry this really is the only photo I have.

Graham can't see the bolt he's fitting.

New car

 

[Martin.]

Those harnesses are such an improvement aren't they. Schroth harness fwiiendsssss

 

[GrahamS]

Bedford

It was an eventful journey but the weekend was perfect. Friday we left home about 7, had a wonderful journey through the blackwall tunnel and quickly found out the car was a little low with all the gear in. I'd take spare hubs, discs, driveshafts etc etc so it wasn't light at all. The scraping got worse and worse over bumps until we were 8 miles from the hotel and a HUGE scrape resulted in a flapping noise. Turned out the tyre had caught and pulled out part of the arch lip and the strip of tyre wall was hitting the quarter, fixed with a hammer and we were on our way again.

Saturday was an amazing day and despite the rain forecast it held off apart from one or two tiny showers. It was my first time on the track and a little frustrating at first because I didn't know how fast each corner was and where to brake. After the tuition it all came together and the rest of the day was brilliant with the car performing well. There was a bit of a dampener on the day with @Martin. 's car not playing game and an oil leak on another. The only problem with the cup was it's alternator stopped charging properly so we were faced with temporamental starting. Nothing a bump didn't solve though.

The day has highlighted a few things to me though, I have a lot of want for a diff as the inside wheel was going nutty in some sections. There are lots of other small bits too like new brake fluid, proper brake cooling and stiffer suspension too but none of this is happening before a full SD cage.

Anywho, pics and video time :smile: Few of me driving with the instructor and a few of Mart driving my flatmate around.

This is the last ten minutes of the day.


A little low

 

[Martin.]

It was still a good day If you guys weren't there I'd have gone home within half hour of the day starting haha!

Thank for letting me have a little go in the cup!!

 

[Akay]

@GrahamS absolutely awesome progress! The car looks fantastic and purposeful as anything! Congrats on graduating also - good feeling isnt it?

I have my first track day on the 1st, im concerned my ktec recessed system will be to loud now! It has no centre silencer but has the standard cat - was this what you were running? How much was the silencer from ktax?

And do you have a spec on the bolt you used for the tow strap - note yours brings the bracket out in front of the grille which is what im after.

Thanks.

 

[GrahamS]

@GrahamS absolutely awesome progress! The car looks fantastic and purposeful as anything! Congrats on graduating also - good feeling isnt it?

I have my first track day on the 1st, im concerned my ktec recessed system will be to loud now! It has no centre silencer but has the standard cat - was this what you were running? How much was the silencer from ktax?

And do you have a spec on the bolt you used for the tow strap - note yours brings the bracket out in front of the grille which is what im after.

Thanks.

Cheers boyo! I had a decat in mine which made it considerably louder. Think I paid £140 for my centre silencer but it was "soiled" stock. I have to say it was worth me swapping it because I didn't bat an eye lid about the noise limits all day. I'm sure you'll be fine though, I did a weekend day so the limits were low. Normal days have a 105db limit at most circuits which is bloody loud.

Tow strap was just a bolt I had laying around so not entirely sure what it was. Smashed the back of it out so I could put a nut on it too. I did previously have a tow strap on a long bolt though, can't quite remember how long it was though :S

 

[imprezaworks]

Love this car mate top work

Allways thought you were older for some reason, lol.

 

[GrahamS]

Love this car mate top work

Allways thought you were older for some reason, lol.

😂 Cheers matey, I'm old in the head that's for sure.

Spent a little time on the car today fitting the PMS brace and top mounts and looking over it after the trackday. Thankfully the car has had solid mounts on in a previous life so it had pre-drilled holes for them, huge time saver. Got the mounts and stut brace on pretty quickly. Despite my best efforts marking the camber bolts up the tracking is now out marginally. Need to string the car up as paying for wheel alignment is getting expensive.

Lots of pics in this update. Saves reading too much:kissingclosed:!

Found a little problem with the cups for the camberbolts, luckily though the bolt rests on the otherside.

All finished now. Car feels much more direct but it's difficult to tell if this is me going from a barge to this. Could be placebo! Inner wheel spins up more easily now though as the suspension doesn't drop as much on corners.

While I was at it, found the brakes had got rather warm and actually boiled the paint on the calipers. Discs have also got very hot so will have swap them before the next outing.

Couple of pics of the tyres, looks like the pressure was about right on them at about 23 cold. It definitely time for some new ones on the front though. I've already got them swapped on to a couple of spare f1s I had.

Finally got a decent pic of the new but second hand belts. Have got 65mm spreader plates underneath. The OMP Saloon harness is currently set up as a 4 point but has the facility to be expanded to 5 or 6 in the future. I'm looking at getting new seats for next year which will allow better restraint for the passenger.

Things are starting to get a little more serious now......I'm going to rebuild the below engine (if the block if good) ready for low pressure boost with a small garrett ball bearing turbo. It's the original cup engine so has done about 130k but ran very well. Hoping to get it stripped next weekend to see what's inside. It'll be my first delv into the engine so will need guiding along the way. Boost really is a long way off though, depending on how the year goes I'm realistically looking at getting it done over the 17/18 winter/spring but it all depends on how much spare money there is. Priority is full cage, just waiting on the safety devices dash dodger to come onto the market. If anyone has other suggestions for cages fitted for about £1500 let me know, I want bolt into in case the shell gets ruined one day.

Rolling road day 17th September at SRR. See a few of you there. The k-tec graph says this engine made 195bhp about 15k ago when the cams were fitted so I'll be happy with 180!

 

[Jekyll]

Excellent work mate!

 

[GrahamS]

Evening Chaps, few little updates on the Clio.
Weekend just gone I headed down to Surrey Rolling Road, arrange by @TimR26, with buddies @AlexW @Sash and @Martin. It was a very good day and I was over the moon to see the cup run 196.3 bhp after saying I'd be happy with anything over 180. It shows that the ktec rolling road graph in 2013, when the engine was in the original 182, wasn't unreliable. Maybe a couple of extra ponies have come from the lack of PAS, decat and lightened flywheel. Anyway, mega chuffed considering how much that power has cost me to get. There was a hilarious amount of smoke come out when he pulled off the throttle which is a tell tale sign of piston rings but I don't mind.

Cheers to Mart for the go pro video.

and my poor attempt

After the rolling road day Alex and co popped down to mine to tare apart the old cup engine. I'd taken the cams off the previous week and noticed there were quite a lot of wear. Turns out the whole engine is totally shot and un-usable apart from the pistons and rods. The whole thing is badly scored up with ridges everywhere so it's going in the bin. At some point the headgasket has been changed for some unknown reason and whoever did it really hacked into the head and cam journals. Luckily I'm in no rush to build the new engine so will collect parts as they become available.

Last but not least. Some plans really are coming into action with the cup now though. This weekend I've got a few bits coming my way, a nice pair of Bimarco Futuras (pic from listing) after @M.C..'s were so damn comfortable back at Bedford in February. A DRE shift light from @NorthloopCup and a boot mat. Depending on how Saturday goes we're aiming to get the whole interior done in gloss white. After that's all done I'm going to get myself a cage put in the car over winter so I can start the new track day season fully ready. It's a shame I've only managed to do one track day this year but with finishing university and the London student loan being hilariously small that's just how it's meant to be! More next year though that's a cert.
G

 

[eon172]

I run those seats, nice and comfy Nice job with the car and your result on the RR, out of interest what cams are you using to achieve that?

BTW, congrats on your degree, it's been a few years for me now but I still remember the buzz and sense of achievement on completing it.

 

[TimR26]

Is the block not useable if you bore it out to 83mm?

 

[AlexW]

Is the block not useable if you bore it out to 83mm?

G has another block anyway (which also needs boring out) so this is no loss. I think I just about talked him into forged Pistons, however it's a long way from his idea of low blow simple build lol

 

[GrahamS]

I run those seats, nice and comfy :wink: Nice job with the car and your result on the RR, out of interest what cams are you using to achieve that?

BTW, congrats on your degree, it's been a few years for me now but I still remember the buzz and sense of achievement on completing it.

Thanks matey, it is great to have it finally done but god I miss having unlimited time at my disposal! The car is on 438 cat cams, rs lower inlet, ac and pas delete, decat, 182 manifold and a terrible induction kit!

Is the block not useable if you bore it out to 83mm?

Yeah it would be usable if I bored it out but I'm looking to get around 250 out of the engine which will be fine on standard internals, cheaper too!

Over the past couple of weekends a lot of hammerite has gone in the car. After three coats it's looking pretty damn good. As the cage is going to be done shortly I'm not going to put the ebay cage back in. The boot carpet is an ebay job and really nice quality. The battery in the spare wheel is making it sit proud in the back but that'll be sorted when I get a new lithium version.

Plan for the cage is to have it done in a few weeks by @Tom Johnson and then tuck the car away until the spring. This year I'm going to try and get something on the ground to stop the damp rising into the chassis and rusting the underside to death.

Anyway, beginning to current in pics! Massive thanks to @Martin. and Ren for helping me with the painting, it made a rubbish job a lot better. The amount I've spent on hammerite and brushes though I'd rather pay someone with a gun to do it next time.

 

[GrahamS]

Painting finished. Got the seats in today and the shift light in. That was a quick sentence to write but it took ages to get both things done right. Big thanks to @Martin. for coming down and helping with all the cup jobs. Cage next. I'm wondering if it's actually going to be possible to get a cross in behind the seats as they do sit quite far back.

Shift light is a nice easy three wire install. Did the same as last time and put a connector on the wire to assist getting the dash on and off. Gone to a good home @NorthloopCup.

 

[dann2707]

Great updates man

 

[RMDavis]

Car looks fantastic bud!

What shift light is that?

How easy are they to fit? Wiring isn't one of my best skills... [emoji28]



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[GrahamS]

Great updates man

Cheers Dan, must have a look through yours soon, seems to progress very fast!

Car looks fantastic bud!

What shift light is that?

How easy are they to fit? Wiring isn't one of my best skills... [emoji28]

It's a DRE shift light. It's possibly one of the easiest things to fit, live, ground and signal wire from the coil pack.

 

[RMDavis]

Cheers Dan, must have a look through yours soon, seems to progress very fast!


It's a DRE shift light. It's possibly one of the easiest things to fit, live, ground and signal wire from the coil pack.

Cheers mate, I'll have a look at their website. Sounds fairly straightforward!

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