H&R Coilover suspension : 182Cup

[Munson]

Ok so as I've decided to keep the shed for another year or more and run it over in Europe where I now live. Home of the fantastic autobahn and some amazing 'B' roads. I have perhaps 3 plans;

1/ cams or ITBs
2/ uprated brakes
3/ coilovers

I think the two most important upgrades are brakes and suspension (in that order of importance) with more power coming afterwards, when the car is better able to cope with the extra demands. What do you tech guys recommend? I would like a drop of around 30-40mm but handling is paramount. Which brake kits should I be looking at? I would want new fluid, better discs, braided hoses, and possibly new (4-pot) calipers. Are 4-pots worth the effort on such a light car?

I guess my budget would be around £4k including ITBs. Imagine you're me, and then give me advice

 

[MarkM]

Coilovers setup properly £1000 (H&R)
Exhaust £500
Cams and remap £1500
4pots £850 (I have the Shed 4 pot kit and would probably just uprate your pads and spend the money on some lightweight 15" wheels before I went to 4 pots)

ITBs on there own dont give good gains (Proven by an AWT conversion). You are realistically looking at over 3k for a basic ITB install aswell.

 

[Munson]

Yeah cheers dude. I've just been doing a spot more online research, and it looks like an ITB setup is nearer 4 large on its own. Fitted at least.

I guess I will (for now) stick to brakes/suspension, as those are likely to make the car more fun, and quicker point-to-point than power upgrades on stock running gear.

 

[MarkM]

Yeah cheers dude. I've just been doing a spot more online research, and it looks like an ITB setup is nearer 4 large on its own. Fitted at least.

I guess I will (for now) stick to brakes/suspension, as those are likely to make the car more fun, and quicker point-to-point than power upgrades on stock running gear.

Makes sense.

When I changed my 182 wheels to prorace 2s (saved about 3kg per corner) the car felt much more lively (handling, acceleration, braking). A mod that made a noticeable difference in all departments.

 

[Munson]

The joys of unsprung mass reduction

 

[drhowser]

for the coilovers, the ast set that dan r has been looking at should be good value for money. i know that fred was going to try them out, so maybe get in touch and see if he has yet.
personally, once you have the cams, map,exhaust and suspension. the next thing i would look at is a diff, by this point you're car will have easily enough power to light both wheels coming out of corners, meaning you are already wasting power. if you go to itb's you will have more power, but it will be harder to use.

 

[Munson]

Yeah coolio. I was also looking at the diff that Ktech are selling. Although by this point, it's probably better to just get an R26. I will wait for the final Meg though to see what it offers. I'm guessing ultra suspension with perhaps remote damping like the Clio 182Trophy, and perhaps as much as 250ps. The outgoing Megane is likely to be a fookin' weapon.

 

[Fred@BTM]

ITBs on there own dont give good gains (Proven by an AWT conversion). You are realistically looking at over 3k for a basic ITB install aswell.

roamer's car gained 41bhp, so i would disagree with that statement!!!

car was 171bhp std, then 212bhp with ITB's all runs done on the same dyno

 

[MarkM]

ITBs on there own dont give good gains (Proven by an AWT conversion). You are realistically looking at over 3k for a basic ITB install aswell.

roamer's car gained 41bhp, so i would disagree with that statement!!!

car was 171bhp std, then 212bhp with ITB's all runs done on the same dyno

I didnt think you liked RR results.

 

[Fred@BTM]

outright power figures no, but it shows the gain before and after (which is all rolling roads should be used for)

 

[Graham Gooch]

Couldn't you just strip the entire car out and get a free performance hike.

 

[Lagerlout]

Timewaster.

 

[MarkM]

outright power figures no, but it shows the gain before and after (which is all rolling roads should be used for)

OK so completely standard no exhaust or air filter etc. etc. and just by adding ITBs (nothing else) it made an extra 41bhp?

I am purely going on what I was told by BenR.

 

[drhowser]

considering that ben advertises manifold matches that increse performance on a standard clio, it is a bit odd that he would say that about itb's. they must work on the same principle? ie. better flow? are you sure you didn't get the wrong end of the stick?

 

[Fred@BTM]

it had an exhaust before/after anyway, just a decat was the additional item added at the same time as the ITB's

the ecu was installed and mapped by the same bloke that did yours recently

 

[MarkM]

Also Luckys car which also had cams and a 182 exhaust manifold made 222bhp on the infamous Mass RR. Logic says that 212bhp is a bit optimistic?

 

[MarkM]

considering that ben advertises manifold matches that increse performance on a standard clio, it is a bit odd that he would say that about itb's. they must work on the same principle? ie. better flow? are you sure you didn't get the wrong end of the stick?

When I had my cams installed I was advised against the other option of 'just' ITBs as the results would be dissapointing.

 

[Fred@BTM]

i'm not on about overall outright power figures!!

it gained 41bhp on the same RR, it could've had a REAL 160bhp to start with and then only be 201bhp when done

get my point?

 

[Tom]

Nah the 212 figure was spot on.
My own car on the same day made a very realistic 76bhp, scrap that 84bhp according to fred.

 

[Fred@BTM]

you made 84bhp tom and i made 86

 

[drhowser]

considering that ben advertises manifold matches that increse performance on a standard clio, it is a bit odd that he would say that about itb's. they must work on the same principle? ie. better flow? are you sure you didn't get the wrong end of the stick?

When I had my cams installed I was advised against the other option of 'just' ITBs as the results would be dissapointing.

i see, you mean that they need the other work to reach their full potential. not that they don't do much on their own?

 

[Tom]

you made 84bhp tom and i made 86

You sure? im sure it was 76? maybe that was the BB day with no oil in the box.

Whoops wrong again.

 

[MarkM]

i'm not on about overall outright power figures!!

it gained 41bhp on the same RR, it could've had a REAL 160bhp to start with and then only be 201bhp when done

get my point?

OK I dont want to argue about it (unless TheJesus gets involved).

I have seen results of RRs for other cars and heard other peoples opinions of this mod done standalone and 212bhp seems optimistic or 41bhp increase however you want to define it.

 

[MarkM]

When I had my cams installed I was advised against the other option of 'just' ITBs as the results would be dissapointing.

i see, you mean that they need the other work to reach their full potential. not that they don't do much on their own?

yes

 

[drhowser]

i'm not on about overall outright power figures!!

it gained 41bhp on the same RR, it could've had a REAL 160bhp to start with and then only be 201bhp when done

get my point?

OK I dont want to argue about it (unless TheJesus gets involved).

I have seen results of RRs for other cars and heard other peoples opinions of this mod done standalone and 212bhp seems optimistic or 41bhp increase however you want to define it.

you make me laugh chap! ( but in a good way):rasp:

 

[Fred@BTM]

i think you're missing my point mark, its NOT 212bhp (no one knows their real power at flywheel, it cannot be measured on a rolling road)

the power at the wheels is measured then that is calculated by a computer to give flywheel figures, so assuming the calculation wasn't messed with the 41bhp gain before and after is accurate as you can get, NO ONE in the clio world apart from roamer has done just ITB's on a 172 engine to my knowledge, they've all had cams in them

 

[MarkM]

i think you're missing my point mark, its NOT 212bhp (no one knows their real power at flywheel, it cannot be measured on a rolling road)

however the 41bhp gain before and after is pretty accurate, NO ONE in the clio world apart from roamer has done just ITB's on a 172 engine to my knowledge, they've all had cams in them

I am not missing your point. I understand the concept of a gain figure vs an outright flywheel figure.

Anyway changing the subject. Has any testing been done on ITB inlet length and how short it can be before any significant drop in power occurs?

 

[Fred@BTM]

only trumpet length to my knowledge

 

[MarkM]

only trumpet length to my knowledge

same difference. Do you have access to the results?

 

[Fred@BTM]

no, its just what i've been told from jenvey

 

[Munson]

Fred, what can you do with my Clio for around 3 large?

 

[Fred@BTM]

2 ways to go roy, engine or suspension/brakes/seats/saftey

 

[Munson]

That's 5 ways surely?

Which is how Karen likes it, so it's all good with me TBH.