Hunting big power

Nodded · Jun 10, 2011

Hi all I have at last started my project racer. my spec list is below I will post pictures as soon as I can as parts have finally started to arrive.
ENGINE.
300M steel crank
300M steel rods
300M steel mains caps
Tri metal engine bearing set
TK mains studs
TK head studs
I S Clairingdon nuts through out
Structural spec alloy engine brace
Omega coated custom high compression pistons
CNC port flow machined cylinder head
Custom designed Hollow billet steel cams
Inconel valves
Supertec conical titanium valve springs
Birrilium valve seats
Custom made 55mm tapper single throttle bodies
Custom made inlet manifold
Custom made carbon fibre air box
Stainless steel exhaust manifold with carbon fibre silencers
5 bar fuel pressure regulator
4 Pico 12 point injectors
4 Pico twin point injectors
TRANSMISSION
Sadev ST82 6 speed box
140mm twin plate clutch
300M 2 kilo flywheel
TMP falppy paddle gear change kit
ELECTRONICS
Race technologies DL1 data logger and dash kit
Magneti Marelli ECU
BODY WORK
Custom carbon fibre wide body kit
carbon fibre rear wing
WHEELS
Rays 10 x 17 rims
Dunlop slicks

This is the vast majority of the spec and I hope to have the whole car finished by the end of the year. If I can work out how to do it I will get some pics up of the parts that have arrived and the engine builds.

Hope you like it

Sam_ · Jun 10, 2011

can't wait to see some pictures!

Tunst · Jun 10, 2011

That sounds expencive.. I await progress mate

Gman · Jun 10, 2011

Ah excellent, I only searched for your previous 'big power' thread the other day wondering if it had gone any further.

Looking forward to seeing this thread

Gman

tom172cup · Jun 10, 2011

Thats one impressive parts list :hail:

adam172 · Jun 10, 2011

Can't wait to see this progress

cliobritt · Jun 10, 2011

Jonny1*2 · Jun 10, 2011

You sure you're not into 6 figures yet

sounds epic that mate

scotty2hotty81 · Jun 10, 2011

This is for all the "not worth spending lots of money, it only a Clio" bregade, that's a crazy list many ££££s will be spent, good luck.

Nodded · Jun 10, 2011

Jonny1*2 said:
You sure you're not into 6 figures yet sounds epic that mate

LOL no not yet but as you can see I am trying

Nodded · Jun 10, 2011

scotty2hotty81 said:
This is for all the "not worth spending lots of money, it only a Clio" bregade, that's a crazy list many ££££s will be spent, good luck.

Here Here Scotty, the Clio has real prospects and we don,t push it will be forever left behind, so I,am pushing. LOL

Jonny1*2 · Jun 10, 2011

What are you competing in by the way?

Nodded · Jun 10, 2011

Jonny1*2 said:
What are you competing in by the way?

Right now I am competing as my car in full rebuild state, but I hope to do BARC and move on to britcar all gong well that is. I have been testing a loan vehicle and that's proved to be quite a tool, so here's hoping.

Icarus · Jun 11, 2011

I really wish you all the best with this as 300 beans from an NA F4R is going to be bloody impressive but there's one thing that's bothering me that I'm not sure if you've covered or not..... that being the piston speed issue you encounter when running an F4R at high revs, they have a 93mm stroke.... that means if you're going to 9000RPM or thereabouts (which you'll probably need to in order to make 300bhp) you're facing down the quite frankly MASSIVE mean piston speed of nigh on 28MS a second (or as us engineers put it REALLY f**king FAST!!!).

If you work on the basis (and it's a good one) that MPS is actually an aerodynamic limit rather than a mechanical limit then it starts to look like a massive pain in the arse to get where you need to be with regards RPM. Working from MPS = Mach Index X mach 1 air speed under operating condition (i.e. altitude/ambient) X mean efflux coefficent X geometric area of valves / geometric area of the piston you'll see how difficult it becomes to exceed circa 27MS.

If we look at some data from the Mugen MF 301H-A F1 engine, which we can assume was a pretty efficent donkey and despite being well over a decade old may be considered better with regards mean efflux coef. than the Renault F4R 830 and possibly worse with regards gav/gap due to larger bore size and valve size, then 0.6 X 340 X 0.429 X 0.3 = 26.26M/S MPS. 26 M/S MPS is pretty much the limit we (and many others) work on as being doable. 26 M/S MPS would give you (assuming 93mm stroke) a max rev limit of around 8400RPM.

Now 8400RPM doesn't cut it, when we did the S2000 engines we figured this out pretty quickly so (first time we've shared this!!!) what we did, which I still think was a great get out, was increased the bore size to 84mm and decreased the stroke to 90.2mm - this gave us 1999.7CC (so under S2k limit and actually a touch more than a standard F4R) and more importantly an MPS of 25.5M/S at 8500RPM, even better it let us give a bit of leeway on the downshift to 8650RPM.... not as good as Brownies Hondas but pretty good considering what we had to work with!!

So what I'm trying to say is that if you keep stock stroke and limit yourself to 8400RPM you're going to need a seriously monty cylinder head, induction setup and exhaust setup to get close to your goal. Move the goal posts by buggering about with bore and stroke and it suddenly becomes pretty possible..... of course you need to totally redesign the crank and rods and there are few issus that appear with the shorter stroke but it's all entirely doable if you're engineers are good enough.

This is one of those projects that moves from "stick some strong bits in" to having to engineer some proper stuff and that makes it really bloody expensive. Especially if you need to life it accurately, investigate harmonics for crank damping etc.

Hope that's of interest to you.

Jonny1*2 · Jun 11, 2011

I'm can't believe that that makes sense to me. Maybe the beers helping

great impartial advice as always matt

Andyrg@ ClioTurbo · Jun 11, 2011

Listen to mat at tdf!!!! He knows the score

bomber · Jun 11, 2011

Matt@TDF AKA Icarus said:
a pretty efficent donkey

I understood that bit, this is why i love Lord Faulks

Dr HMS Derv Destroyer · Jun 11, 2011

that thing.. if you can even call it a thing anymore will go like the f00king dogs bol****

Timmyevo6 · Jun 11, 2011

just send it to neil brown. simple......but get ready for a bank transfer from hell.

if it ever comes to fruition that is.

Nodded · Jun 13, 2011

As always thanks Matt for your advise, but these guys have this all under control they laid this all out on the line right up front and yes we do have the cylinder head from hell, and yes it was silly expensive but it gives the results. The motor gives its power @ 8500 piston speed at max RPM 8750 is 25 M/S so all is good.

We will see when it gets on the dyno that's for sure.

Thanks again

gerupsausage · Jun 13, 2011

love it, cant wait for pictures

Nodded · Jun 13, 2011

gerupsausage said:
love it, cant wait for pictures

Here goes I will give it a try

Nodded · Jun 13, 2011

Well much of the transmission stuff has arived I hope the pics come out LOL
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3359/5830360150_5554c49830.jpg

One six speed gear box

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5109/5830359574_81f70fedbf.jpg

Here's the bulk of the flappy paddle gear change kit

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/5829809915_692335b91f.jpg

I still can't belive how small this clutch is

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/5830358174_b037a982e2.jpg

And last but not least one super lite flywheel

Nodded · Jun 13, 2011

I guss I did somthing wrong as the picture did not come out:S

ST82-14 by nodded, on Flickr

Nodded · Jun 13, 2011

I Got It at Last here they are:S

K-M-P Paddleshift 1 by nodded, on Flickr

Clutch by nodded, on Flickr

Flywheel by nodded, on Flickr

bomber · Jun 13, 2011

Impressive stuff, look forward to watching tje build

chrispy.clio · Jun 13, 2011

Just seen this thread. How long will that engine last? One seasons racing?

The flywheels looks rediculus! Cool as fook.

Good luck with the build i hope it all comes together.

Oh and who is building the engine/doing all the work?