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Saab 93 Aero Wagon
Yesterday
It is indeed. I want to see if it has any worth, ..... but so far I've only managed to open the box and oggle at it.
Not in a FWD hatch it doesn't unless you want to spin the engine round and RWD it or get into chopping it up to move the scavenges to a position suitable for a transverse engine install. In the FR the engine is longitudinally mounted with the gearbox on the back hence under high lateral G the oil moves across the width of the pan hence the baffles and pickups are positioned to account for this, in a FWD hatch the oil will move across the length of the pan and the baffles laid out to control movement across the width of the pan aren't a lot of help in this situation.
Speak to Paul at Titan if you want to mod it for FWD hatch use but there's not a lot of point as you'll stuggle to pull more than 1.5G in a Clio, decent set of baffles in the stock sump is all you need
TrackCar & F30 330d
I did think the scoopy things were the wrong way round for the car. The only good part of that sump is that if its thinner, as in the sump doesnt sit lower than the subframe then you can have the whole of the front of the car borded up so the air runs faster blar blar blar, you know what i mean.
So is the sump thinner/shorter?
Fred I'll have a free one if you want to get rid of one!?
So is the sump thinner/shorter?
Fred I'll have a free one if you want to get rid of one!?
TrackCar & F30 330d
Oooo also if the car gona be sat outside for a while you might want to put some tap over the mani as rain sat in the mani surly cant be a good thing!
RB 182
Ditto!!
Saab 93 Aero Wagon
The sump is considerably shallower yes. Handy if, and that's a big if, we get it to work on the car as it will give a touch more allowance when kerb hopping.
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
interesting
no chance!
Evo 5 RS
LOL
Saab 93 Aero Wagon
You're supposed to put the wheels over the curbs not the sump
If the inside wheels aren't on the grass and the outside wheels riding the kerb then you aren't trying hard enough.
That's from the Tony school of cornering as well...
Black 172 PH2
Ah right.
I saw Tom today, rolling in the Volvo :race:
Very wise. One of the Evo tuners purchased one of our dry sump kits, stuck it on their car (with a longitudinal engine install not transverse) and wondered why they had constant oil control issues (oil climbing past the windage tray etc). With a dry sump setup you have a bit of leeway with regards pressure as obviously the pressure stage is fed from an external tank but a sump isn't just to catch what falls down the crankcase, oil control and delivery to the pickups/scavenges is a very important function too.
If you want to dry sump one in a hatch definately speak to Titan as they have the most experience with F4R dry sump setups.
182cup & 172 racecar
That's from the Tony school of cornering as well...
Ah,you did listen then.
Saab 93 Aero Wagon
Saab 93 Aero Wagon
There wasn't a conscious decision to go for this setup and it wasn't something we were considering (well I hadn't anyway but I can imagine Tom had probably thought about it....he likes his toys)
As already mentioned it may not work but it needs to be investigated and, for the time being, the costs involved are minimal.
As already mentioned it may not work but it needs to be investigated and, for the time being, the costs involved are minimal.
Schma Schme 1.6l
http://www.jmstuning.co.uk/Forum Images/182 Images/42.jpg
Is that a baffled sump or a dry sump?
Looks nice what ever it is!
Is that a baffled sump or a dry sump?
Looks nice what ever it is!
182cup & 172 racecar
Pump in bottom left hand corner.
Golf GTD Mk7
There wasn't a conscious decision to go for this setup and it wasn't something we were considering (well I hadn't anyway but I can imagine Tom had probably thought about it....he likes his toys)
As already mentioned it may not work but it needs to be investigated and, for the time being, the costs involved are minimal.
Cool. To be honest it looks similar anyway. The engines are positioned length ways in the formula renault though, so maybe dry sump is a little ott for the clio. Nice bit of kit though :approve:
Thanks for your input matt, appreciate it.
Right information as follows, I'll share all of it, including the obvious stuff.
Firstly the unit fits on in the following manner:
F4R from a Clio, converted for single seater use (virtually the same as the FR2.0)
You can clearly see the different aux setup on this side on image of a different engine with the same kit fitted:
Obviously this has implications for other aux units, such as the PAS, but not something I can't solve.
The unit uses a revised aux drive pulley, gearing down to achieve the correct RPM for the pump (I assume - I will confirm this with Paul on Monday)
A clearer image of this replacement setup can be found on this segment of Product Assembly diagrams Paul has kindly provided me with last week:
Fitment wise for a stock engine there are some parts that need to be removed:
Bracket on the gearbox side - IIRC it holds a loom / PAS pipe.
One of the aux mounting points outside of the water-pump housing is also conflicting the position of the aux drive point:
The end plate is a straight fit, providing the lower mounting holes the sump pan:
General shot of the unit:
The kits internals:
It has a single output positioned (once in the car) on the front nearside of the engine:
The sump pan itself is actually very simple in design: elevated section for the trays / baffles, with a canal running around it's outer edge (around 12mm deep):
The windage trays are simple sheet stainless, with countersunk hex head bolts securing them in place, this makes them simple to replace / redesign if as matt has pointed out they are not suitable for the hatch application.
Bbviously to fit the unit you have to remove the standard oil pump, chain assembly and the windage tray.
There are three outstanding issues (excluding actual oil management):
1. Standard gearbox bell housing does not fit onto the end of the sump pan, so will require a vertical adapter block (not a problem)
2. Does the oil pump clear the subframe at the front of the engine? (tbc)
3. Plumbing - luckily we are only based around the corner from Think Autmotive - so building a Mocal based kit for the tank / plumbing is not a problem.
I'm going to give Paul a ring on Monday and run some more questions past him. Matt I will probably discuss it in more depth with yourself when I see you next week to collect my kit.
I'm more than aware that this is potentially overkill, however:
1) I am aware from my short time so far being involved in the championship of at least two instances where Clio Cups have suffered oil based issues, so although as already pointed out a well designed baffle system would do the job; this will too.
2) The kit provides extra sump clearance - which in the long run beyond ground / kerb clearance; provides the option of lowering the engine.
3) I like interesting project based work so: :rasp:
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PM your address then..
This is the sort of thing everyone means by single seater with a longitudinal engine right?
Tom, mind if I PM you some general questions? (I thought I'd ask prior as you know what Fred is like with PM's
Yes and yes.
That picture looks great Alex
Tom, won't the advantages of lowering the engine be counteracted by extra weight of the pump, lines, oil etc.
Tom, won't the advantages of lowering the engine be counteracted by extra weight of the pump, lines, oil etc.
182cup & 172 racecar
It gets to a point where weight isn't everything as we have found out,balance and getting the power down start to become an issue with less weight.
182cup & 172 racecar
I don't do drugs(not anymore).
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