K-Tec 4 Pot Kit For 172

[canfordcliffs]

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=1026http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=1026



I have heard the standard brakes on the 172 are pretty damn good....so is it worth spending £800+ on this kit?...will there be a dramatic difference do you think?

 

[Daz]

Yea there will be a difference - needed if you have more Power..

 

[KDF]

There will probably be quite a difference, but not enough to justify £800.

If you put your foot down on the pedal hard and the wheels lock (or abs kicks in) the why would you ever need bigger brakes (apart for improved resistence to brake fade)

What difference does it make if it takes less foot pedal pressure the lock the wheels the end result is the same, you can only slow down as quickly as the grip from the tyres provides.

 

[RobFenn]

I wouldnt buy it before i tried it, its not just about how good the kit is performance wise, you need good pedal feel, travel etc to give you confidence. How well has the kit stood up to track tests? Has the kit even been tested on track? Think of all the questions before throwing your money at it.

It is true stopping distance is effected by tyres and road quality, but theres no doubt that the 4 pots will stop you quicker.

-Rob

 

[canfordcliffs]

"If you put your foot down on the pedal hard and the wheels lock (or abs kicks in) the why would you ever need bigger brakes "



Good point!...I guess once the ABS is doing its stuff or the disks lock up (which I assume they dont with a 172) then 4 pots cant slow you down anymore than the standard brakes?

 

[RobFenn]

Erm, do you use ABS all the time then?!

 

[KDF]

canfordcliffs,

exactly, the only major advantage would be (as stated in my original message) less/no brake fade.

Rob I dont understand what your asking, Im simply saying if you press the brake pedal hard in the 172 and the abs kicks in then your brakes are performing as well as you would ever need, its your tyres which are stopping you braking quicker.

 

[msa197]

a part from the looks i dont think its woth upgrading to 4 pots!

unless you do alot of track days, or are you going to road rally a 172.


(Thats an idea anyone??????????????????) Road Rally 172

Just upgrade disc and pads in my opinion!!!

mike

 

[Turkish]

yummy that last pic looks good, think theyd look great behind my dares but my piggybank isnt up to it at the moment

 

[badley]

Just splash out for the brembos!!!! £1500

 

[RobFenn]

Bigger brakes will give a better bite and shorten stopping distances, brake fad isnt the only thing. They should also give you more feel, and be more progressive, i.e you should be able to brake harder and be in control for longer. The thing is this all depends on setups...

I cant judge K-tecs kit but bear in mind a lot of companies get Brembo calipers and sell them as Brembo kits, even though discs pads etc may not be up to the same quality. Prices like these are no longer boy racer add ons, as i said a test drive should be a must before spending this much money.

-Rob

 

[KDF]

They WILL NOT shorten braking distances.. the only way to do that would be to provide more grip between the car and the road. put it this way, do you think it makes any difference how big your brakes are on ice ? NO.. why ? cause there is no traction between the tyre and the road.

Same goes with the 172 brakes, you can lock the wheels with its brakes even on anti-skid stuff, so putting bigger brakes on will not shorten braking distances.

 

[Tom]

Noo what yoo need is really wide 17s and the brake kit

thatll slow ya

 

[RobFenn]

Quote: Originally posted by _KDF on 18 August 2003


They WILL NOT shorten braking distances.. the only way to do that would be to provide more grip between the car and the road. put it this way, do you think it makes any difference how big your brakes are on ice ? NO.. why ? cause there is no traction between the tyre and the road.

Same goes with the 172 brakes, you can lock the wheels with its brakes even on anti-skid stuff, so putting bigger brakes on will not shorten braking distances.





You can lock the brakes, but doesnt mean you should or will, in fact if youre good enough you should never lock the brakes!

Braking is friction, kinetic energy to thermal. The pads going across the discs causes a build up of heat. The better pads and discs the more heat, the more stopping power.

Now, also youll know the bigger the spanner, the easier it is to loosen a bolt, right? The bigger a disc, the further out a caliper can be, multipot calipers have their piston centres mounted to move them out even more and so give an increase in torque length.

Therefore, once again, bigger brakes will stop you quicker! I understand youre point about if theres no grip it doesnt matter how big the brakes are, but there is normally always grip so i feel youre misleading people somewhat with your theory, especially when you make it out as some kind of fact.

-Rob

 

[Slugger]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 18 August 2003

Quote: Originally posted by _KDF on 18 August 2003


They WILL NOT shorten braking distances.. the only way to do that would be to provide more grip between the car and the road. put it this way, do you think it makes any difference how big your brakes are on ice ? NO.. why ? cause there is no traction between the tyre and the road.

Same goes with the 172 brakes, you can lock the wheels with its brakes even on anti-skid stuff, so putting bigger brakes on will not shorten braking distances.






You can lock the brakes, but doesnt mean you should or will, in fact if youre good enough you should never lock the brakes!

Braking is friction, kinetic energy to thermal. The pads going across the discs causes a build up of heat. The better pads and discs the more heat, the more stopping power.

Now, also youll know the bigger the spanner, the easier it is to loosen a bolt, right? The bigger a disc, the further out a caliper can be, multipot calipers have their piston centres mounted to move them out even more and so give an increase in torque length.

Therefore, once again, bigger brakes will stop you quicker! I understand youre point about if theres no grip it doesnt matter how big the brakes are, but there is normally always grip so i feel youre misleading people somewhat with your theory, especially when you make it out as some kind of fact.

-Rob

There is always a level of grip but if you have abs you can always put your foot on the floor and get the abs to come on, if you dont have abs you can always put your foot on the floor and lock up. Braking distance is limited by tyre grip, bigger brakes wont change that.

I knew this would happen

I wouldnt waste your breath KDF, rob will never agree, ive been here before on a similar subject.

 

[RobFenn]

lol! I cant believe this..whatever

 

[Daz]

Hahaha.

 

[ChavyBoy]

LOL @ slugger

 

[joe_no12]

Slugger/KDF,

From what I have read you are saying that you can lock the wheels or get the ABS to activate on any grippy surface at any speed?

So what wrong with the stock brakes? If they are up to the job then why look at upgrades?

 

[Tom]

dont really get this thread?

bigger brakes improve braking do they not?

otherwise whats the point?

 

[Slugger]

If you want them to bite more sharply/quicker, to help with brake fade, styling

 

[joe_no12]

Tom,

Ye they will but only if the stock brakes are not up to the job.

 

[ChavyBoy]

As slugger said bigger brakes, help reduce brake fade due to larger surface area to dissipate heat.

 

[Tom]

so if they perform better (thats what your saying right?) why dont you stop in less distance?

when dads s8 had the new brakes fitted (the others were great anyway) it improved the stopping distance quite a bit.

please explain?

So if i had two identical 172s one with stock brakes and theother with k-tec ones they would stop inthe same distance?

 

[joe_no12]

Plus with 4 pots you get better pad pressure, longer pad, better clamp effect....etc.

 

[ChavyBoy]

Also larger surface area of the pads means more friction can be applied between the disc and pads, grip permitting on the road.

 

[joe_no12]

The limit is how much grip there is between the wheels and the road! If the stock brakes are upto the tasks then performance gains will be minimal.

 

[Tom]

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio16v on 18 August 2003


so if they perform better (thats what your saying right?) why dont you stop in less distance?

when dads s8 had the new brakes fitted (the others were great anyway) it improved the stopping distance quite a bit.

please explain?

So if i had two identical 172s one with stock brakes and the other with k-tec ones they would stop in the same distance?






Yes or no?

 

[ChavyBoy]

You can then start to increase grip by the following.

1. Fitting wider tyres

2. Decreasing tyre pressure

3. Adjust weight distribution in the car

4. Adjusting brake bias

 

[Tom]

Have i camod my posts?

Can anyone read what i have posted?

 

[ChavyBoy]

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio16v on 18 August 2003

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio16v on 18 August 2003


so if they perform better (thats what your saying right?) why dont you stop in less distance?

when dads s8 had the new brakes fitted (the others were great anyway) it improved the stopping distance quite a bit.

please explain?

So if i had two identical 172s one with stock brakes and the other with k-tec ones they would stop in the same distance?






Yes or no?

You would have to take into account road condition would you not as well ?

 

[joe_no12]

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio16v on 18 August 2003

Quote: Originally posted by Tomclio16v on 18 August 2003


so if they perform better (thats what your saying right?) why dont you stop in less distance?

They would if the brake were the limiting factor.

when dads s8 had the new brakes fitted (the others were great anyway) it improved the stopping distance quite a bit.

please explain?

So if i had two identical 172s one with stock brakes and the other with k-tec ones they would stop in the same distance?

If the brakes were not the limiting factor then yes. If they were then no!






Yes or no?

 

[Tom]

ok i assumed that would be taken into account.

along with every other thing

Tyres-same

road- same

cars-same

drivers-same (robots built to brake and drive a car straight)

 

[ChavyBoy]

I could then only assume that the efficiency of the friction between the pads and discs are higher on the newer brakes.

 

[Tom]

in which case, one rule.......

give yourselves a talking to.

 

[ChavyBoy]

Uhh ??

 

[joe_no12]

Say you are running really soft sticky rubber and you have really crap stock brakes. A large 4 pot kit will make a big difference because of the grip level available.

If you have skinny little bike wheels on your car and the stock brakes are up to the job then 4 pots will make next to no difference, but they do look sexy!

 

[joe_no12]

As I said it depends if the brakes are the limiting factor.

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 18 August 2003

Quote: Originally posted by _KDF on 18 August 2003


They WILL NOT shorten braking distances.. the only way to do that would be to provide more grip between the car and the road. put it this way, do you think it makes any difference how big your brakes are on ice ? NO.. why ? cause there is no traction between the tyre and the road.

Same goes with the 172 brakes, you can lock the wheels with its brakes even on anti-skid stuff, so putting bigger brakes on will not shorten braking distances.






You can lock the brakes, but doesnt mean you should or will, in fact if youre good enough you should never lock the brakes!

Braking is friction, kinetic energy to thermal. The pads going across the discs causes a build up of heat. The better pads and discs the more heat, the more stopping power.

Now, also youll know the bigger the spanner, the easier it is to loosen a bolt, right? The bigger a disc, the further out a caliper can be, multipot calipers have their piston centres mounted to move them out even more and so give an increase in torque length.

Therefore, once again, bigger brakes will stop you quicker! I understand youre point about if theres no grip it doesnt matter how big the brakes are, but there is normally always grip so i feel youre misleading people somewhat with your theory, especially when you make it out as some kind of fact.

-Rob

OMG, did rob just get technical! lol

Fraid hes right, larger torque moment, pad area, heat disspation blah blah blah.

The car will stop better with this kit, even with the same tyres. I cant be arsed to go into details. But there is a diff between friction and stiction, and max retardation rate will happen at a few % tyre slip.

You can jsut as easily lock wheels with small drums

 

[paddymph]

its pretty clear 2 indentical cars, 1 with bigger brakes will have smaller stopping distance?!

Whats the big deal, would have thought that obvious??