Killed my brakes!

[Ph1 Tom]

Killed my DS2500 at Outlton yesterday, I now have some shiney glazed pads and discs which need replacing.

They've been fine until now but after a session of getting used to the better tyres and suspension I've been carrying more speed, which means less slowing down to some degree but I'm also going faster on the straights which means more slowing down. Anyway the DS2500 are dead.

I've been through a list of various pads looking at coefficients, operating temparatures and characteristics/road manners.

Carbon Lorraine RC5+ seem to fit the bill, low dust and noise, low disc wear, good braking from cold, very high operating temparature as they are sintered, decent braking coefficient but nothing too high for a lightweight Clio.

Is there anything else available that offers the same for less money?

Do they work ok with standard Brembo HC discs or are the Brembo Max a worthwhile upgrade?

The other question is, do I buy a set for Brembo 4 pots I've got waiting to go on and get them fitted, or sell them on with the brackets and buy the pads for the standard callipers...?

 

[JamesBryan]

How did it go yesterday Tom? Heard a few people say it was quiet.

I might look at changing my DS2500's for something else too, i'm no Alonso but can still get them to fade on some corners at Oulton.

 

[Advikaz]

Either CL or DS3000's would be the most common IMO.

 

[tomhunt85]

Killed my DS2500 at Outlton yesterday, I now have some shiney glazed pads and discs which need replacing.

They've been fine until now but after a session of getting used to the better tyres and suspension I've been carrying more speed, which means less slowing down to some degree but I'm also going faster on the straights which means more slowing down. Anyway the DS2500 are dead.

I've been through a list of various pads looking at coefficients, operating temparatures and characteristics/road manners.

Carbon Lorraine RC5+ seem to fit the bill, low dust and noise, low disc wear, good braking from cold, very high operating temparature as they are sintered, decent braking coefficient but nothing too high for a lightweight Clio.

Is there anything else available that offers the same for less money?

Do they work ok with standard Brembo HC discs or are the Brembo Max a worthwhile upgrade?

The other question is, do I buy a set for Brembo 4 pots I've got waiting to go on and get them fitted, or sell them on with the brackets and buy the pads for the standard callipers...?

I ran the 197 Brembo set up at Oulton last week with standard Brembo pads and there was not a hint of fade. The only thing that let it down was the standard 280mm discs have slightly warped. Was only a matter of time before they were changed for Brembo HC or Max anyhow. I've been really impressed with the upgrade.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Do you have brake cooling ducts tom? I never looked yesterday.

 

[aucky]

I highly rate Pagid RS4-2 aka (Pagid blues) vs DS2500. They're not the cheapest though!

 

[NorthloopCup]

I highly rate Pagid RS4-2 aka (Pagid blues) vs DS2500. They're not the cheapest though!

I've heard nothing but good things about them tbh. Nigh on £200 a set though iirc?

 

[Dan@SJM]

I'm running DS3000's in my car after killing the 2500's. But then found the discs couldn't cope with the heat (at Combe anyway)

 

[Ph1 Tom]

I'm having some brake bells made up to go bells and rotors which should help with the heat a bit.

I looked at the Pagid blues and the brake coefficient and operating temperature weren't as good as the RC5+.

Just can't decide whether to fit the 4 pots or not.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

I ran the 197 Brembo set up at Oulton last week with standard Brembo pads and there was not a hint of fade. The only thing that let it down was the standard 280mm discs have slightly warped. Was only a matter of time before they were changed for Brembo HC or Max anyhow. I've been really impressed with the upgrade.

How do you find them compared with the standard callipers? What master cylinder and abs/non abs setup have you got?

Do you have brake cooling ducts tom? I never looked yesterday.

I have a bit of brake cooling nothing amazing but better than nothing.

 

[Joe#]

My 2500's didn't seem to last very long yesterday either. So I'm going to change for something else when the time comes.

 

[M.C..]

Mine did not seem too bad but I had a terrible vibration when braking (still stopped fine), felt like the discs were warped but on the way home with different wheels and tyres on it was fine, I can only put it down to the Dunlops picking up lots of rubber and and making it feel like the brakes.

 

[willcrook]

I've had:
standard pads
pagid rs4-2
df2500
ds 1.11

imo the ds1.11 are much better than the rest in terms of breaking ability and initial bite, I cant' comment on longevity as i've only done 1 day in it (oulton yesterday)
the rs4-2's warped the discs, the standard ones were crap and the 2500's didn't last long

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

^ agree about the DS1.11, one of the best brake pads for track/race use available imo sonny172cup

 

[NorthloopCup]

My 2500's didn't seem to last very long yesterday either. So I'm going to change for something else when the time comes.

I must need to learn to brake harder then as I'm on 2500's and never had an issue all day. Lol!

 

[Joe#]

I must need to learn to brake harder then as I'm on 2500's and never had an issue all day. Lol!

Haha, you seemed to be going well yesterday.

 

[George@RTR_Parts]

^^ Does depend on driving style and how heavy you are on the brakes, brake cooling helps aswel

Doing a proper cool down lap helps and doing "stints" on and off the track to give you and your car a break

 

[NorthloopCup]

Haha, you seemed to be going well yesterday.

Thanks! I was doing fine up until I got bored and decided that trying to put the car on 2 wheels or doing a spot of tripoding accompanied with some drifting was more fun! Lol! Brilliant day though. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

[NorthloopCup]

^^ Does depend on driving style and how heavy you are on the brakes, brake cooling helps aswel

Doing a proper cool down lap helps and doing "stints" on and off the track to give you and your car a break

Agree with that. I don't do 'last of the late brakers' either. I also don't have any brake cooling either. I do the cool down laps though after every stint.

 

[Christopher.]

In my Ph1 'Track car' i had :

Carbon Loraine RC5+
Brembo Max discs
Braided lines
Dot 5 Fluid

It was the Dot 5 Fluid that made that setup for me. You had to stand on them very sharp but my god would it slow you down quickly. The best setup i have ever had even beat my the 4pots i had in a RB.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

^^ Does depend on driving style and how heavy you are on the brakes, brake cooling helps aswel

Doing a proper cool down lap helps and doing "stints" on and off the track to give you and your car a break

I do all that but yesterday the car was going well so I stayed out longer than normal and started braking heavier and later.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I do all that but yesterday the car was going well so I stayed out longer than normal and started braking heavier and later.

So it's your own fault then?

 

[Ph1 Tom]

So it's your own fault then?

That's one way of putting it. The other one is the pads weren't man enough

 

[Cub.]

Lol. My brakes weren't smoking. Honest. @BIGASH

I'm the same Tom, I killed my DS2500s at Llandow and yesterday so I'll follow this thread closely to see what I can do about it. A few people have put me off the Wilwoods and so I'll be interested to hear peoples views on other 4 pots. I don't really want to spend ££££ on some Alcons.

Car looked lovely by the way, love a nice ph1.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Lol. My brakes weren't smoking. Honest. @BIGASH

I'm the same Tom, I killed my DS2500s at Llandow and yesterday so I'll follow this thread closely to see what I can do about it. A few people have put me off the Wilwoods and so I'll be interested to hear peoples views on other 4 pots. I don't really want to spend ££££ on some Alcons.

Car looked lovely by the way, love a nice ph1.

Tbf mate, your new 2500's didn't have any therapy with a grinder. Mine have a good 1-1.5mm of movement in the pad carrier. This would've been helping to heat yours up potentially. As they get hot the backing plate of the pad gets hot and expands and they stick in the carrier. Pad touching disc + friction = overheated pads. I only thought about this earlier.

Do you still have the anti squeal shims in your calipers? Cub. Ph1 Tom

 

[Cub.]

Nope. To be honest, I'm likely to have to go 4 pot after this winter whether I like it or not.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Nope. To be honest, I'm likely to have to go 4 pot after this winter whether I like it or not.

Yeah I think your right mate.

 

[Cub.]

Yeah I think your right mate.

Have you any experience with the wilwood kit? Other than Big D's experience?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Have you any experience with the wilwood kit? Other than Big D's experience?

The only experience I have of wilwoods is on my old car mate. They were alright tbh but trying to get them to stop a car from 170mph was definitely not on their list of 'things I like to do'. Lol!

 

[Ph1 Tom]

In my Ph1 'Track car' i had :

Carbon Loraine RC5+
Brembo Max discs
Braided lines
Dot 5 Fluid

It was the Dot 5 Fluid that made that setup for me. You had to stand on them very sharp but my god would it slow you down quickly. The best setup i have ever had even beat my the 4pots i had in a RB.

I've got braided lines and ATE blue fluid. Did you try the pads with normal Brembo HC discs?

As for your 4 pots, which ones did you have, what pads and what size/type discs?

 

[Joe#]

Thanks! I was doing fine up until I got bored and decided that trying to put the car on 2 wheels or doing a spot of tripoding accompanied with some drifting was more fun! Lol! Brilliant day though. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

LOL! Glad you enjoyed it.

 

[Christopher.]

I've got braided lines and ATE blue fluid. Did you try the pads with normal Brembo HC discs?

As for your 4 pots, which ones did you have, what pads and what size/type discs?

Think i got confused. HC are non grooved are they ? I had non grooved ones.

Willwoods kit from JAMsport http://jam-sport.co.uk/shop/renault-clio-295mm-4pot-brake-kit/

They were great, but honestly no different from the standard setup i had on my PH1. They might of resisted fade for longer but during a 15-20 min session on track i could never notice.

 

[Fletcher]

I am currently go back the standard calipers, with CL RC6 pads and brembo HC discs ( I already have braided lines fitted)

Fed up with paying £115 each for the compbrake discs.

 

[Sir_Dave]

I always used the following & never had any issue with fade:

CL rc5+
Brembo hc
Castrol sr dot 4

No fog lights/arch liners

 

[tomhunt85]

How do you find them compared with the standard callipers? What master cylinder and abs/non abs setup have you got?

I've stayed with the standard master cylinder and although there's a slightly longer travel between initial bite and fully applied it's been good. I did consider upgrading to the 197 item but I got used to the pedal feel within about two days and I found the brakes easy to balance on track this way. It's an abs car as well. I think I've warped the discs down to a lack of cooling, both in ducts and slow down laps, my bad. Ducts are an issue I'll be addressing in due course.

I'm certainly not regretting the upgrade.

 

[tomhunt85]

Lol. My brakes weren't smoking. Honest. @BIGASH

I'm the same Tom, I killed my DS2500s at Llandow and yesterday so I'll follow this thread closely to see what I can do about it. A few people have put me off the Wilwoods and so I'll be interested to hear peoples views on other 4 pots. I don't really want to spend ££££ on some Alcons.

Car looked lovely by the way, love a nice ph1.

My pal has a Sunflower Ph1 track car that's running the Hi-Spec 4 pots. He's been quite happy with how they've performed. I've not driven it myself but both him and my brother raved about them. That was running AST's, ITB's and slicks so it was getting plenty of punishment.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

Do you still have the anti squeal shims in your calipers? @Cub. @Ph1 Tom

No I haven't Mark, so they squeal sometimes!

Nope. To be honest, I'm likely to have to go 4 pot after this winter whether I like it or not.

Why's that Ollie?

Think i got confused. HC are non grooved are they ? I had non grooved ones.

Willwoods kit from JAMsport http://jam-sport.co.uk/shop/renault-clio-295mm-4pot-brake-kit/

They were great, but honestly no different from the standard setup i had on my PH1. They might of resisted fade for longer but during a 15-20 min session on track i could never notice.

Ok thanks for the feedback

I am currently go back the standard calipers, with CL RC6 pads and brembo HC discs ( I already have braided lines fitted)

Fed up with paying £115 each for the compbrake discs.

The bells and rotors I'm doing will be £135 posted for a pair of rotors from Hi-Spec. What are the RC6 like? From what I've read they're a bit noisy, dusty and hard on discs.

I always used the following & never had any issue with fade:

CL rc5+
Brembo hc
Castrol sr dot 4

No fog lights/arch liners

Great! thanks for the info

I've stayed with the standard master cylinder and although there's a slightly longer travel between initial bite and fully applied it's been good. I did consider upgrading to the 197 item but I got used to the pedal feel within about two days and I found the brakes easy to balance on track this way. It's an abs car as well. I think I've warped the discs down to a lack of cooling, both in ducts and slow down laps, my bad. Ducts are an issue I'll be addressing in due course.

I'm certainly not regretting the upgrade.

Your not the only person to say that about the longer travel, gives you some more modulation. MG cup

 

[Fletcher]

The bells and rotors I'm doing will be £135 posted for a pair of rotors from Hi-Spec. What are the RC6 like? From what I've read they're a bit noisy, dusty and hard on discs.

Good price for a disc with the bells and rotors setup.

I've not yet tried the RC6 pads, hopefully find out what they're like this weekend. My 172 is covered in DS3000 brake dust the wheels are ruined and the car is only used for fun/ trackdays so the RC6 pads should be fine.

 

[STEVE.M]

Lol.

I'm the same Tom, I killed my DS2500s at Llandow and yesterday so I'll follow this thread closely to see what I can do about it. A few people have put me off the Wilwoods and so I'll be interested to hear peoples views on other 4 pots. I don't really want to spend ££££ on some Alcons.

are we winning races or having a bit of trackday fun?Brembo plain HC discs,slotted ones will crack,standard organic brembo pads.Cook them till the smell intrudes,let themn cool

 

[deksport]

Brembo HC discs , RC5± braided hoses ATE blue very good brakes got my discs and pad from K tech as a package it was a good deal