Loud pop, auxiliary belt partly shredded... HELP

[jackdaviesUK]

Hi there,


The mechanic has had my car yesterday to take out and put back the PAS pipe that commonly leaks on these 182s. No more leak, however 15 miles after getting her back a loud pop at 5k revs losing all drive, brakes, etc.

The auxiliary belt is still on but part of it has shredded off. No more fire just turnover ignition. Now the belt and half engine bay was contaminated with PAS fluid however he assured me this was nothing to worry about and would simply 'disappear with engine heat'. (He had to take off the belt and put back on during the process of removing the pipe)

The cars with him now but where do I stand with getting this solved? Whats the problem in your opinions? Obviously something he's done as both belts had 2 years and many thousands miles left.

Thank you all in advance

 

[Ryanph1rs]

did you have a new aux belt fitted when he did the pas if hes removed the belt and not put a new one on then tbh you dont have a leg to stand on as theyll say its an old belt etc etc .... if its down to the pipe and incorrect fitting then thats a whole other story

 

[markkram]

(He had to take off the belt and put back on during the process of removing the pipe)

That is very likely to be the issue. The belts on 1*2's do not like to be take off and re-fitted.

 

[MartinR]

Timing belt has been took out i would say. Check for the shredded part of the belt wrapped around the crank pulley..

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Na he didn't replace it with a new one but it only got changed 1 year/12k miles ago. I wasn't none the wiser, the pipe was a simple re-fit only disturbing the belt as he had to take it off but I'm told whenever you remove a belt on these they should be replaced by new? Let alone being soaked in fluid anyway.

Now I'm thinking it could of taken the cam belt or possibly bent the valves etc if its not firing up? Or because its still attached and not snapped it may be OK? Only had her 3 weeks my first one as well

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Is it likely to be OK if the aux belt is still attached then? Just needs replacing with a NEW one? Before I have another rant at him later.

Tanks guys

 

[Darren S]

Not that it helps in this situation, but I got the auxiliary belt replaced when I got the alternator swapped out. Just not worth the risk imo.

I'd get the full aux. belt kit swapped out - not just the belt itself. No real idea what damage could have been caused in there. Hope you get it sorted.

​D.

 

[Fred@BTM]

engine will be scrap, the shredded belt will have gone into the cambelt = bye bye engine

 

[Stu_350z]

Listen to the man above ^^

 

[McGherkin]

engine will be scrap, the shredded belt will have gone into the cambelt = bye bye engine

Sadly this.

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Thanks for the help guys appreciate it, will just have to wait for the mechanics opinion

 

[jackdaviesUK]

At least I had 3 weeks of joy

 

[jackdaviesUK]

How am I going to approach the mechanic about this then?

 

[Fred@BTM]

I'd be pointing the finger at him, leaving PAS fluid everywhere and saying "it'll disappear with engine heat" is the biggest load of b****cks i've ever heard! Brake cleaner - its not just for brakes!

bet he didn't fit it onto the cran pulley properly

 

[Michael Woodford MST]

What Fred said sadly!

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Exactly what I said earlier however I wasn't none the wiser of what needed doing.

i guess legally I don't stand a chance as the bill was only for labour. ****

I'm post a topic for parts soon, warm your grubby mits ready lol

 

[McGherkin]

If the labour they carried out resulted in the failure of the belt, I can't see why you wouldn't have a case.

 

[Fred@BTM]

15miles after the work was done? I'd shoot myself if that as one of my customers cars!

 

[Chip-mk1]

The reason you had no brakes is you had no vacuum in the servo, the reason for that is there was none in the inlet because the valves have all been bent by the belt skipping.

As Fred/Mike have already mentioned your engine is probably scrap now, or at least needs a top end rebuild (but trouble with that is its a lot of expense to then quite possibly find out after that the pistons have nipped the rings or broken a ringland from the impact with the valves)

 

[Lal B3N]

My aux belt came off the other week after the alternator snapped, I was so so lucky that it wrapped itself round the bottom pulley.

Have you asked yet what solution he is going to offer?

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Yes chip that explains exactly why when being towed I had to use my handbrake half the time as brakes were so stiff and non-responsive.

I firmly left him the keys and told him to ring me once he found what he had caused. I got the sense that from the minute he threw part of the shredded belt in the dumper and continued with his work that he knew he'd f***** up.

Now I shall wait for him to contact me with his findings, legally I got no chance so will have to tred carefully.

 

[Dan@SJM]

If he has refitted an old belt, it's his fault. He should have changed it. Echo Fred's comments on the PAS oil too.

 

[jackdaviesUK]

I managed to get some photos of the snapped belt at the roadside. the first picture shows the belt shavings, the second pictures shows the aux belt afterwards, obviously you can see the top section of the belt has been shaved away, but still seems firmly on the pulleys




After seeing these photos could anybody hazard a guess of how this could have happened? Could the belt 'jumped' for a split section out of place as it was oily and cause it to scrape on something else causing the shavings? (i.e. the cambelt, which in turn would of made that jump and ruin the engine?)

I really have no idea, but as much information as i can find out from you very knowledgable people now will avoid me being given the spill by the mechanic, and worst case see another 182 off the road as no way could i afford to fix it if he manages to worm out of anything some way i've only just bought it

 

[hipwell]

Could have put the belt on the crank wrong causing it to pull across, a well respected guy on here managed to get this wrong on mine. Causing the belt to be a tooth out on all the pulleys.

Luckily I noticed it in time, bought a new belt and sorted it myself.

 

[Dan519]

belt is rubbing on the tensioner. Tensioner is seized and should have been replaced

 

[mikeh]

belt is rubbing on the tensioner. Tensioner is seized and should have been replaced

This. I had exactly the same issue when I replaced my alternator recently.

It's not like you can even miss this, though - it made refitting the belt an absolute arse of a job. It's obvious when the tensioner is seized and I'd say that he either did it knowingly or he doesn't know what he's doing, especially if I can figure it out - I work with IT for a living

Either way, I'd say the liability lies with him - is he a private individual, or a big indy garage or what?

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Thanks for all your replies, you've made my 2 week old membership worth while already

He's individually private, all my family and friends use him. He's cheap labour and that's all I wanted him for as it would of been 300+ at mainstream garage as I knew the PAS problem through reading these forums.

Just trying to gauge as many opinions as possible and clue myself up in case he tries giving me the slip for whatever's the problem now.

 

[mikeh]

Give him a chance to sort it first (if he fixes it, make sure you ask for full details).

Has he told you when he'll get back to you?

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Yeah I have done, he's had the car since early afternoon yesterday if I don't hear anything this morning ill go down late afternoon.

I left p***** off as you would you and told him to ring me once he'd found what had been caused.

 

[Clart]

Unfortunately a lot of new clio owners learn this when its too late.

Go to a respected mechanic on here who know these cars inside and out. They are cheaper than most garages and more knowledgable than the dealers themselves.

I'd say you had a very strong case against your mechanic and would be looking for him to foot the bill for the repairs.

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Lesson firmly learnt Clart, hopefully it's not too late.

So would we all.

Thanks

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lesson firmly learnt Clart, hopefully it's not too late.

TBH mechanically it is too late, in that its major work to correct at this stage.

Problem you have now is even if the mechanic offers to fix it, do you really want someone like that to be doing an engine rebuild on your car?


I feel very sorry for you

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Well no not in the slightest, would it be too cheeky to ask for credit for a specialist to do? ha ha

Hmm really not sure of my options??? but ill definitely be going down for a chat with a voice recorder in pocket.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well no not in the slightest, would it be too cheeky to ask for credit for a specialist to do? ha ha

Hmm really not sure of my options??? but ill definitely be going down for a chat with a voice recorder in pocket.

Your options really are:
Get him to supply and fit a secondhand engine
Get him to fix your engine
Get it fixed elsewhere and send him the bill


I would be AMAZED if he agrees to the last one, and surprised if he agrees to either of the first two free of charge either as he has going to be massively out of pocket.

I reckon you might end up in court, but it depends on what he is like really.


I'd say first place you should be going is citizens advice.

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Sounds like I'm pretty screwed either way tbh. What a jobs worth. Anyway thank you all for your advice/opinions/help its all very well appreciated!!

I will post later with conclusions

 

[Dan@SJM]

Where are you based, as there are plenty of specialists registered as traders on here, and we pretty much have the country covered.

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Essex, engine dynamics are the closest in kelveldon. I've already seeked Andys opinion of which is the same as this thread. All that required was removing then replacing the fixed PAS pipe and in using him I've saved 100s in labour, it wasn't a specialist job, well not that I was aware off?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Didnt require a specialist, just required someone who made sure:

The fluid was cleaned up
The tensioner was freely moving (or replaced if any doubt)
The belt was in good order (or replaced if any doubt)
The belt was fitted properly

Then that way you wouldnt be in the situation you are now.


Working on these cars is NOT rocket science, but there are quite a few "gotchas" that catch people out first time around, so with a specialist you have less chance of having a problem as they will have seen it all before.

But any genuinely good mechanic should have no problems if they have the proper approach to the work.

 

[mikeh]

Where are you based, as there are plenty of specialists registered as traders on here, and we pretty much have the country covered.

Can you point me to one on the Isle of Wight?

 

[jackdaviesUK]

Not one spec of fluid was cleaned, he basically phrased it saying it would clear itself lol

Spot on Chip, just spoke to citizens helpline and I definitely have a case, been given a reference for him. Will pop down there in couple hours and hopefully you guys can consult my options