Grandpa Joe
ClioSport Club Member
I want Alcons...
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My new racecar project (Icemans old shell)
- Thread starter Russ Rallye
- Start date
Me to!
Nice little update Russ, just started to srtip mine down today to check on a few things.
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
It makes sense as there's loads of bits you can't check in situ, for example the rear wishbone holes on the subframe have elongated and that's only happened since the start of the season.
Russ
Russ
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
It'll be heat and the oil not doing its full lubricating job that's caused the tips on the selector fork to melt/wear Russ.
I'll be on it for those nuts as well mate - not forgot, just had a bit of s**t on as discussed via text.
I'll be on it for those nuts as well mate - not forgot, just had a bit of s**t on as discussed via text.
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
You reckon mark? I'm pretty fussy about the gearbox oil, I only ever use Silkolene Race Syn Tran 5 or Fuchs whatever it's called now and it's changed twice a season. The box internals, bearings and rings etc are immaculate. It'll be interesting to see what it's like when it's apart next time.
No worries on the nuts mate, my machinist is doing x4 for me as we speak anyway. He's got those and the subframe too so he's holding me up!
Russ
I remember iceman showed me a bucket of gearbox oil that'd done one race with a gripper and it had loads of particulate settle out, I guess from the gripper plates.
Yeah it's from the plates of the diff! Mine gets changed everytime the car does an hours use either on the dog box or normal box with gripper diff
182cup & 172 racecar
More expence
How many hours use is required then before the plates need changing out?
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Mine has had the plates changed as part of the standard rebuild this time and it's probably done about 10-12 hours Id say.
Russ
Russ
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Sorry mate - only just seen this! Yeah they take some real hammer on the selector forks. All it takes is a bit too much heat to break the oil down and your into items getting damaged. The gripper'd add a lot of additional heat into the oil as well.
I used to run a gearbox oil cooler on my Quaife f20 straight cut box for this very reason. The fifth gears on them used to friction weld themselves together if you sat at high speed for a long period of time! Lol!
Jc5's have good lubrication channels in them by comparison though tbf.
I've got a lot of experience with gearboxes, but the majority of them have 12-16 gears, a splitter and a range change!
Ah good stuff on the nuts mate.
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Thanks mate, hopefully you'll be on the grid with us yourelf soon enough.
It'd be interesting to see the temperature of the gearbox oil during hard use, might have to rig a sensor up to the dash and see. Obviously fitting a gearbox cooler is fairly excessive but wonder if I can duct some air over box to aid cooling or maybe look at a different oil.
Russ
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
HGV mate.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
You'd be very surprised at just how hot they get when they're under heavy use mate. To fit a cooler imo is excessive on the jc5. I only did it on my f20 as it was a 2.5k box.
Remember if you duct air in you've got to get it out as well. You'll get a lot of drag otherwise and it may even lead to higher engine temps if the air stalls in the engine bay. It can prevent the radiator doing its job in really extreme circumstances.
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Car is just about back in one piece, or it was until I started taking it to bits again, more on that in a minute!
Got the subframe back from my mate complete with pure motorsports wishbone mount repair/strengthening washers welded on, gave the bare metal bits a quick lick of satin black.
Also bought one of their sump guards too, firstly to protect the underside, linkages, exhaust and sump + also to stiffen up the subframe a bit.
The rest of the jobs were to refresh all the front suspension components, the rear beam has been gone through already with both beam bearings replaced and new rear arb fitted. I'm trying to keep as many (sensible/consumable) spares now as I can too.
At the front it's had
-X1 wishbone-subframe bearing + spares
-X1 wishbone-hub bearing + spares
-X2 new nyloc nuts for the above, these are machined to clear the bearing housing do had a spares done too.
-X2 steering rack rods + spares
-X2 steering rack rod ends
-X2 steering rack rod end to hub bolts and nyloc nuts + spares
-X4 brake disc retaining screws + spares
Old
New
It needs the geo doing obviously but tracked it 'by eye' so I don't think it's too bad, pic is with the steering wheel straight.
As for taking it to bits again, it's currently minus is exhaust manifold, the 182 one has been removed and the replacement is one its way, mostly to complement my new motor once built but makes sense to run it and have it mapped on this motor as this will be my backup motor in the future and don't want to swap manifolds.
More importantly something else is missing!
I'm sick to death of the pms gear linkage setup, it's never been right IMO so it's out of the car now and I'm going through it to improve it before I get rid of it completely!
For anyone interested, this is what the kit looks like totally stripped down.
The main bearing in the housing is just about totally seized and has been since it was new in 2013, it's never loosened up and tbh I think it's now stiffer than when I got it so that's not right, a new one is on order.
Taken time to connect all the linkages up with shims/washers at the pivot bearings and make sure it's as good as it can be, fingers crossed it's all fine once the bearing turns up and it goes back together!
So we're not far from being able to get out and test once I sort s few more jobs and change the fluids. Next job is to crack on with the Sprinter I've bought as a race van!
Russ
Got the subframe back from my mate complete with pure motorsports wishbone mount repair/strengthening washers welded on, gave the bare metal bits a quick lick of satin black.
Also bought one of their sump guards too, firstly to protect the underside, linkages, exhaust and sump + also to stiffen up the subframe a bit.
The rest of the jobs were to refresh all the front suspension components, the rear beam has been gone through already with both beam bearings replaced and new rear arb fitted. I'm trying to keep as many (sensible/consumable) spares now as I can too.
At the front it's had
-X1 wishbone-subframe bearing + spares
-X1 wishbone-hub bearing + spares
-X2 new nyloc nuts for the above, these are machined to clear the bearing housing do had a spares done too.
-X2 steering rack rods + spares
-X2 steering rack rod ends
-X2 steering rack rod end to hub bolts and nyloc nuts + spares
-X4 brake disc retaining screws + spares
Old
New
It needs the geo doing obviously but tracked it 'by eye' so I don't think it's too bad, pic is with the steering wheel straight.
As for taking it to bits again, it's currently minus is exhaust manifold, the 182 one has been removed and the replacement is one its way, mostly to complement my new motor once built but makes sense to run it and have it mapped on this motor as this will be my backup motor in the future and don't want to swap manifolds.
More importantly something else is missing!
I'm sick to death of the pms gear linkage setup, it's never been right IMO so it's out of the car now and I'm going through it to improve it before I get rid of it completely!
For anyone interested, this is what the kit looks like totally stripped down.
The main bearing in the housing is just about totally seized and has been since it was new in 2013, it's never loosened up and tbh I think it's now stiffer than when I got it so that's not right, a new one is on order.
Taken time to connect all the linkages up with shims/washers at the pivot bearings and make sure it's as good as it can be, fingers crossed it's all fine once the bearing turns up and it goes back together!
So we're not far from being able to get out and test once I sort s few more jobs and change the fluids. Next job is to crack on with the Sprinter I've bought as a race van!
Russ
The PMS shifter seems to be a popular choice for track cars. Other than that and the modified Scenic setup is there many other options?
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Not really mark no, if there was Id have tried something else by now, I have an avenue I'm going to explore in this area but it's not a quick fix. I'd like to try one of those scenic shifters see what they're like, the best thing about the pms setup is it's position relative to the wheel, it's great but everything else IMO is worse than the standard shifter.
Russ
Russ
I would like to try one as I have heard great things about them once they are set up right. It's the price and awkward setup that's putting me off jumping in.
Good work Russ. I am tempted by the sump guard myself, it would offer a bit more protection than my plastic one. No oil drain hole though so guess you would need to remove it completely to do an oil change. Also how much does it weigh?
Heard conflicting opinions on the pms shifter, some people seem to love them, others like yourself seem to find them difficult to get on with.
Heard conflicting opinions on the pms shifter, some people seem to love them, others like yourself seem to find them difficult to get on with.
Sump guard is a must as i found out the hard way when a curbing clipped the gear linkage rendering reverse gear useless. Renault do a sump guard for the Clio (European/rocky region edition iirc) search on here for a part number.
No reason why you can't drill a 20mm hole for convenience. It's not going to make any practical difference to how well the sump is protected (the one Sonny mentions probably already has a hole).
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Yeah tbh its not a major hardship taking the guard off for an oil change, Id want it off anyway rather than a hole to check everything over anyway. Tony has run a sump guard on his clio for years so definately makes sense.
Russ
Russ
182cup & 172 racecar
If you look at the state of my sump guard, I would say it's a good idea, stuff the weight.
The gear linkage is so vulnerable down there, plus I got stuck in a gravel trap, as once in there, I couldn't get any gears to get out.
I'm def not getting a pms shifter, never liked the look of them from the start.
Oh, and Renault have now doubled the price of the oem sump guard!!:astonished:
The gear linkage is so vulnerable down there, plus I got stuck in a gravel trap, as once in there, I couldn't get any gears to get out.
I'm def not getting a pms shifter, never liked the look of them from the start.
Oh, and Renault have now doubled the price of the oem sump guard!!:astonished:
182cup & 172 racecar
Thanks.
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Well the bearing for the shifter housing turned up today and straight away it was a hundred times more free than than the original so I set about reassembly.
It's miles more free once installed in the housing too, the original bearing has been tight since day one and has only got worse! Once it was all fitted to the car it's night and day, the shifter even self centres in neutral which it's never done before, no tight spots or awkward shifts. Time will tell whether it's all fixed to my satisfaction but it's certainly the best it's ever been and I haven't even driven it yet (no exhaust manifold)
Russ
It's miles more free once installed in the housing too, the original bearing has been tight since day one and has only got worse! Once it was all fitted to the car it's night and day, the shifter even self centres in neutral which it's never done before, no tight spots or awkward shifts. Time will tell whether it's all fixed to my satisfaction but it's certainly the best it's ever been and I haven't even driven it yet (no exhaust manifold)
Russ
Mine doesn't even have the original undertray! Even that's risking it just for the road. My Scooby didn't have it fitted when I bought it and as a result the sumo had a tiny hole in it which was a pain to fix.
That shifter looks great. I hope you like it as I want to hear how great they are so I can justify getting one and also powerflex dogbone bushes
That shifter looks great. I hope you like it as I want to hear how great they are so I can justify getting one and also powerflex dogbone bushes
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Manifold is delayed but was supposed to be sent out today so unless it's on a Saturday delivery I won't see it until Monday now.
Fluid changes this weekend.
Russ
Fluid changes this weekend.
Russ
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
No words just pics of new shiny things!
Russ
Russ
Very nice!
182cup & 172 racecar
Will your bonnet shut. :wink:
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
It's finally fitted, probably taken me 4 hours! I could of pulled the engine out and put it back in less time! It's a fiddle that's for sure.
It's tight everywhere, close to the bulkhead, subframe, master cylinder breather outlet and coolant bottle. Some heat management might be in order!
Obviously it's not easy trying to package the 'proper' length primaries in a small space but I just wasn't prepared for how tight it would be.
Some remedial work to do now, need to alter the breather pipe to the catch can firstly. Second I want to speak to nick from pm's as I'm not happy with the new link pipe as it's got a flexi joint in now and makes the centre section hang low, I've messed about with it but the flexi is now the lowest point if the whole car and is a prime target for getting ripped off on something!
Still got to start it up sometime check it all for leaks and knocks etc.
Russ
It's tight everywhere, close to the bulkhead, subframe, master cylinder breather outlet and coolant bottle. Some heat management might be in order!
Obviously it's not easy trying to package the 'proper' length primaries in a small space but I just wasn't prepared for how tight it would be.
Some remedial work to do now, need to alter the breather pipe to the catch can firstly. Second I want to speak to nick from pm's as I'm not happy with the new link pipe as it's got a flexi joint in now and makes the centre section hang low, I've messed about with it but the flexi is now the lowest point if the whole car and is a prime target for getting ripped off on something!
Still got to start it up sometime check it all for leaks and knocks etc.
Russ
Attachments
That's some manifold, be interesting to hear your thoughts on it after the first race.
Russ Rallye
ClioSport Club Member
I'm not expecting much from it at the minute tbh as it's mainly for my new engine, be interesting to see how it goes on the dyno too.
Russ
Russ
