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Naples MK1 Track car project



After finding the bottom end on Pistonheads for Adam, he phoned the guy who said it was in good condition, turned over fine etc. So we made the 250mile round trip to Cleveland/North Yorks to pick it up...

Got it back to the factory earlier, flywheel off and on the engine stand just to double check. Turned it over via the flywheel (no crank pulley on it) beforehand and it span over ok. Slight bit tighter than the other one, but I thought it may have been down to lack of oil/being sat etc.

Put it on the stand to find some of the sump bolts were loose, removed them all anyway after having to drill one rounded one off, that was just the start of the story...

After a few hours just getting the sump off, finally got it removed...

IMG_8914.jpg


IMG_8912.jpg


All that is just swarf! Someone had used sh*tty silicone gasket on the sump which doesnt even need it, as it has a re-usable seal! Some of this was in the oil pump pickup...

IMG_8911.jpg


Checked the plastic baffle and found more swarf, and some bits of metal that looked like some parts of a shell...

IMG_8894.jpg


IMG_8896.jpg


IMG_8898.jpg


IMG_8900.jpg


IMG_8927.jpg


Also swarf everywhere down the back of the bores, popped a few of the rod caps off to find some slight scoring. Then took one of the mains off and it was scored but still in position. Moved onto the next mains cap to find there was no gap in the bearing, it had spun and welded together...

IMG_8923.jpg


IMG_8923.jpg


So basically at the end of the day completely useless! Grim.
 
  Mk1 F4R
It was sold as it was working fine so the guy thought/said, seen it on piston heads on sunday and then rang up on monday/yesterday then went up there lastnight 5hr round trip it was from middlesbrough area. Thought id ring before anyone else did, got a good deal with it bottom end, head, inlets and a few other things too but really am gutted waste of time and money so going to ring him tomorrow and see wot i can sort out. Thought it was a bit dodgy when i saw the red gasket past on the sump
 
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Only be worth building a 100% fresh one to be sure as the bearings/pump in the other could possibly be knackered due to the history of it!
 
  Mk1 F4R
Think for the money it would take to build a fresh one it would be really nice but just not at the minute, 2 hand one will do for now maybe when i have more cash and we have moved house, thats another reason ywhy i have to get the car finished soon. Not looking that way now :mad:
 
  Mk1 F4R
Rang the guy this morning and said wot i had to say, he said ill ring you back later as ive just woke up this was at 10am this morning and ive still not heard anything back yet, ill give him till 4 then ill be ringing him
Anyone know wot i can do if this goes wrong and i cant get my money back
 
You havent got much comeback due to having no reciept, PistonHeads advert isnt good enough. Luckily when mine went wrong I had an eBay listing to go back to.

His PistonHeads advert does not say weather its in good condition or not, you only found that out when you rang him. Unless you have a text off him containing info that it was in good condition and turned over ok (those words) you dont have much apart from his word against yours, and you would just have to sort it out between yourselves.
 
  TrackCar & F30 330d
I think you may have a case, section 35 of the sale of goods act,

He sold you somthing which he said was working but it wasnt so you might have a legal case if you wanted to go down that route.


EDIT: just read F0xy's post. not so sure now
 
  Mk1 F4R
Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994

1994 CHAPTER 35

ARRANGEMENT OF SECTIONS

Provisions relating to the United Kingdom

1 Implied term about quality

(1) In section 14 of the [1979 c. 54.] Sale of Goods Act 1979 (implied terms about quality or fitness) for subsection (2) there is substituted—
“(2) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.
(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.
(2B) For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—
(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,
(b) appearance and finish,
(c) freedom from minor defects,
(d) safety, and
(e) durability.
(2C) The term implied by subsection (2) above does not extend to any matter making the quality of goods unsatisfactory—
(a) which is specifically drawn to the buyer’s attention before the contract is made,
(b) where the buyer examines the goods before the contract is made, which that examination ought to reveal, or
(c) in the case of a contract for sale by sample, which would have been apparent on a reasonable examination of the sample.”
(2) In section 15 of that Act (sale by sample) in subsection (2)(c) for “rendering them unmerchantable” there is substituted “making their quality unsatisfactory”.
2 Acceptance of goods and opportunity to examine them

(1) In section 35 of the [1979 c. 54.] Sale of Goods Act 1979 (acceptance) for the words from “when he intimates” to “(2)” there is substituted— “subject to subsection (2) below—
(a) when he intimates to the seller that he has accepted them, or
(b) when the goods have been delivered to him and he does any act in relation to them which is inconsistent with the ownership of the seller.
(2) Where goods are delivered to the buyer, and he has not previously examined them, he is not deemed to have accepted them under subsection (1) above until he has had a reasonable opportunity of examining them for the purpose—
(a) of ascertaining whether they are in conformity with the contract, and
(b) in the case of a contract for sale by sample, of comparing the bulk with the sample.
(3) Where the buyer deals as consumer or (in Scotland) the contract of sale is a consumer contract, the buyer cannot lose his right to rely on subsection (2) above by agreement, waiver or otherwise.
(4) The buyer is also deemed to have accepted the goods when after the lapse of a reasonable time he retains the goods without intimating to the seller that he has rejected them.
(5) The questions that are material in determining for the purposes of subsection (4) above whether a reasonable time has elapsed include whether the buyer has had a reasonable opportunity of examining the goods for the purpose mentioned in subsection (2) above.
(6) The buyer is not by virtue of this section deemed to have accepted the goods merely because—
(a) he asks for, or agrees to, their repair by or under an arrangement with the seller, or
(b) the goods are delivered to another under a sub-sale or other disposition.
(7) Where the contract is for the sale of goods making one or more commercial units, a buyer accepting any goods included in a unit is deemed to have accepted all the goods making the unit; and in this subsection “commercial unit” means a unit division of which would materially impair the value of the goods or the character of the unit.
(8)”.
(2) In section 34 of that Act (buyer to have opportunity to examine goods)—
(a) the words from the beginning to “(2)” are repealed; and
(b) at the end of that section there is inserted “and, in the case of a contract for sale by sample, of comparing the bulk with the sample.”
3 Right of partial rejection

(1) After section 35 of the [1979 c. 54.] Sale of Goods Act 1979 there is inserted the following section—
“35A Right of partial rejection

(1) If the buyer—
(a) has the right to reject the goods by reason of a breach on the part of the seller that affects some or all of them, but
(b) accepts some of the goods, including, where there are any goods unaffected by the breach, all such goods,
he does not by accepting them lose his right to reject the rest.
(2) In the case of a buyer having the right to reject an instalment of goods, subsection (1) above applies as if references to the goods were references to the goods comprised in the instalment.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (1) above, goods are affected by a breach if by reason of the breach they are not in conformity with the contract.
(4) This section applies unless a contrary intention appears in, or is to be implied from, the contract.”
(2) At the beginning of section 11(4) of that Act (effect of accepting goods) there is inserted “Subject to section 35A below”.
(3) Section 30(4) of that Act (rejection of goods not within contract description) is repealed.
Provisions relating to England and Wales and Northern Ireland

4 Modification of remedies in non-consumer cases

(1) After section 15 of the [1979 c. 54.] Sale of Goods Act 1979 there is inserted the following—
“Miscellaneous

15A Modification of remedies for breach of condition in non-consumer cases

(1) Where in the case of a contract of sale—
(a) the buyer would, apart from this subsection, have the right to reject goods by reason of a breach on the part of the seller of a term implied by section 13, 14 or 15 above, but
(b) the breach is so slight that it would be unreasonable for him to reject them,
then, if the buyer does not deal as consumer, the breach is not to be treated as a breach of condition but may be treated as a breach of warranty.
(2) This section applies unless a contrary intention appears in, or is to be implied from, the contract.
(3) It is for the seller to show that a breach fell within subsection (1)(b) above.
(4) This section does not apply to Scotland.”
(2) In section 30 of that Act (delivery of shortfall or excess) after subsection (2) there is inserted—
“(2A) A buyer who does not deal as consumer may not—
(a) where the seller delivers a quantity of goods less than he contracted to sell, reject the goods under subsection (1) above, or
(b) where the seller delivers a quantity of goods larger than he contracted to sell, reject the whole under subsection (2) above,
if the shortfall or, as the case may be, excess is so slight that it would be unreasonable for him to do so.
(2B) It is for the seller to show that a shortfall or excess fell within subsection (2A) above.
(2C) Subsections (2A) and (2B) above do not apply to Scotland.”
Provisions relating to Scotland

5 Remedies for breach of contract

(1) After section 15A of the [1979 c. 54.] Sale of Goods Act 1979, which is inserted by section 4(1) above, there is inserted the following section—
“15B Remedies for breach of contract as respects Scotland

(1) Where in a contract of sale the seller is in breach of any term of the contract (express or implied), the buyer shall be entitled—
(a) to claim damages, and
(b) if the breach is material, to reject any goods delivered under the contract and treat it as repudiated.
(2) Where a contract of sale is a consumer contract, then, for the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above, breach by the seller of any term (express or implied)—
(a) as to the quality of the goods or their fitness for a purpose,
(b) if the goods are, or are to be, sold by description, that the goods will correspond with the description,
(c) if the goods are, or are to be, sold by reference to a sample, that the bulk will correspond with the sample in quality,
shall be deemed to be a material breach.
(3) This section applies to Scotland only.”
(2) In section 30 of that Act (delivery of shortfall or excess) before subsection (3) there is inserted—
“(2D) Where the seller delivers a quantity of goods—
(a) less than he contracted to sell, the buyer shall not be entitled to reject the goods under subsection (1) above,
(b) larger than he contracted to sell, the buyer shall not be entitled to reject the whole under subsection (2) above,
unless the shortfall or excess is material.
(2E) Subsection (2D) above applies to Scotland only.”
(3) After section 53 of that Act there is inserted the following section—
“53A Measure of damages as respects Scotland

(1) The measure of damages for the seller’s breach of contract is the estimated loss directly and naturally resulting, in the ordinary course of events, from the breach.
(2) Where the seller’s breach consists of the delivery of goods which are not of the quality required by the contract and the buyer retains the goods, such loss as aforesaid is prima facie the difference between the value of the goods at the time of delivery to the buyer and the value they would have had if they had fulfilled the contract.
(3) This section applies to Scotland only.”
6 Provision equivalent to Part I of Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982

Schedule 1 to this Act shall have effect for the purpose of making provision equivalent to Part I of the [1982 c. 29.] Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 for Scotland.
General

7 Amendments and repeals

(1) Schedule 2 to this Act (which makes minor and consequential amendments of the [1979 c. 54.] Sale of Goods Act 1979 and the [1967 c. 45.] Uniform Laws on International Sales Act 1967, and makes amendments of enactments relating to the supply of goods corresponding to the amendments of that Act of 1979 made by this Act) shall have effect.
(2) The enactments mentioned in Schedule 3 to this Act are repealed to the extent specified in column 3 of that Schedule.
8 Short title, commencement and extent

(1) This Act may be cited as the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994.
(2) This Act shall come into force at the end of the period of two months beginning with the day on which it is passed.
(3) This Act has effect in relation to contracts of sale of goods, hire purchase agreements, contracts for the transfer of goods, contracts for the hire of goods and redemptions of trading stamps for goods (as the case may be) made after this Act comes into force.
(4) This Act extends to Northern Ireland.
 
It doesnt matter, because you have no hard proof (Advert saying fully working, etc) of condition upon purchase.

Its just your word against his, which isnt good enough to get a definate conclusion, if he says you cant have your money back.

Ive been to solicitors, and all sorts of people about mine and im still waiting for the small claims case to go through. And Ive even got hard evidence that it was sold as fully working in the form of emails and an eBay advert. It cost me £50 to do the small claims process, and ive still not got anywhere...so its less likely it would work if you dont have any evidence.

Just gotta hope hes ok with it and will give you the cash back!
 
  TrackCar & F30 330d
Oh dear, Law is such a difficult thing to decide. Try threatening a law suit with the seller and explain you have a case (even though you may not 100% have one). He may s*it himself and give you your money back. Its worth a try if you havnt allready
 
  Mk1 F4R
Update on the bottom end situation

I had been trying to get hold of the guy on his mobile and no answere on it for 2 days, went on the internet and put his postcode and address in to online phone directories wot a wounderfull thing it is, i finally got through to his house on the thursday and his mother answered and put him on, he cept saying stuff like swap the crank over and bearings from another bottom end and alot of other crap that he was just guessing/knowing what he was talking about (obviously has'nt got a clue). As i was putting him in his place to every solution he came up with, he didnt like it one bit and in the end he was saying sold as seen (nowere in the advert did it say it) and your not having your money back and you shouldnt of gone down the road of swaping and changing things, should of just bought an engine like i did for £450, so i said you try finding me a phs 1 decent condition for that price and then left it at that as i cant be bothered with idiots and lo-lifes like him. He has signd up on the forum so watch out for him his user name is (Michaeldeans1). I guess ill just have to sell the parts that i can to get some money back
 
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  Mk1 Clio F4R'd
Just read this build thread, looks really good mate. Shame to hear about the bottom end etc. Keep your head up and get it done bud, your nearly there!

Naples looks hot too!
 
  Mk1 F4R
^ Cheers mate Hopefully ill be able to find one soon but i guess i can get every thing else done first and the engine be the last thing to drop in

I'm going to have to postpone the build for a bit as i have hurt my leg really bad playing football and am now on cruches done ligaments and other stuff not good :dapprove:
 
  Black 182
^ Cheers mate Hopefully ill be able to find one soon but i guess i can get every thing else done first and the engine be the last thing to drop in

I'm going to have to postpone the build for a bit as i have hurt my leg really bad playing football and am now on cruches done ligaments and other stuff not good :dapprove:

Oh dear thats you and the car out of action :( , hope you get sorted soon mate
 
  Mk1 F4R
Few new items have turned up last week so thats cheered me up need to forget about wots happend and just get on with it

Pollybushes
Powerflex : 1*2 wishbone bushes
Powerflex : Williams anti roll bar bushes

IMG_2225.jpg


Also my new harness turned up
Schroth Profi III-6
Lightweight 6-pt professional harness with snap hook attachments on 3“ shoulder straps (wrap/snap hook fi tting) and 2“ lap and T-Bar crutch straps. RFR rotary buckle and alloy adjusters. FIA approved.

IMG_2340.jpg


IMG_2337.jpg


IMG_2341.jpg


just need to get another when i can afford it
 
  Mk1 F4R
Few new items have turned up last week so thats cheered me up need to forget about wots happend and just get on with it

Poly bushes
Powerflex : 1*2 wishbone bushes
Powerflex : Williams anti roll bar bushes

IMG_2225.jpg


Also my new harness turned up
Schroth Profi II-6
Lightweight 6-pt professional harness with snap hook attachments on 3“ shoulder straps (wrap/snap hook fi tting) and 2“ lap and T-Bar crutch straps. RFR rotary buckle and alloy adjusters. FIA approved.

IMG_2340.jpg


IMG_2337.jpg


IMG_2341.jpg


just need to get another when i can afford it
 
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so happy you posted twice haha

they look good, really like the seat! them belts look very heavy duty!

whats goin on with the engine then, abandoning that one and just on the lookout for another? absolute pain in the arse this is turning out to be.
 
  Petrol Blue 182.
Just read it all, sweet car bud! what did you do with the interior? will be looking out for some leather when i get mine, shame about the bottom ends mate :(
 
  Petrol Blue 182.
^ will he be selling it atal? your the man to come to for valver parts then i take it haha
 
  Mk1 F4R
so happy you posted twice haha

they look good, really like the seat! them belts look very heavy duty!

whats goin on with the engine then, abandoning that one and just on the lookout for another? absolute pain in the arse this is turning out to be.

Just seen i posted it twice woops should be sorted soon
The engine, im just going to look for another

'cough' F7P!

No jamie no point and dont have the money to do it, also i dont need it doing NOW!

Just read it all, sweet car bud! what did you do with the interior? will be looking out for some leather when i get mine, shame about the bottom ends mate :(

Cheers mate
as f0xy said it in storage

Its sat in storage with all my spare crap lol.

LOL ;)
 
  JDM Dc2
No jamie no point and dont have the money to do it, also i dont need it doing NOW!

thought people give F7P engines away? if they dont shouldnt be too much id imagine...

Thinking whats best for you thats all, could get everything done over the next few weeks, back on the road... then just swap engines over on a weekend when you come across a good F4R bottom end, shorely thatd be the easiest option!?...
 
Its just down to the seller really. I made the same mistake at the start of 2009. Advertised as fully working etc, but the seller was just a lying c**t. Then you try and contact them and they just ignore you, so its just 100% obvious they knew it was f**cked. Thank god for the small claims courts eh.
 
  Mk1 F4R
thought people give F7P engines away? if they dont shouldnt be too much id imagine...

Thinking whats best for you thats all, could get everything done over the next few weeks, back on the road... then just swap engines over on a weekend when you come across a good F4R bottom end, shorely thatd be the easiest option!?...

1. I dont have an engine crane
2. I aint buying one
3. Sod trying to find an f7p
4. Itll be more work than its worth

What a c**ts trick that was :( It may be worth just whippin the sump off before you depart with your new engine.

Think thats wot ill be doing next time before i take it

Its just down to the seller really. I made the same mistake at the start of 2009. Advertised as fully working etc, but the seller was just a lying c**t. Then you try and contact them and they just ignore you, so its just 100% obvious they knew it was f**cked. Thank god for the small claims courts eh.

Yep but i dont think ill be abole to do that as i dont have enough evidence on the guy so prob just fall staight through and a waste of money
 
Yes like I explained lol...without hard evidence you aint getting nowhere.

and #2, how you expecing to fit an engine without one lol.
 

Djw John

Scotland - South
ClioSport Area Rep
Dunno how I've missed this thread but its been a damn good read so far.

Can't believe your luck with the BE's but every project has set backs and hopefully you're getting them out of the way now!
 
I dont have one, ive just lent then in the past lol. Gona buy one in the next week or two though, need to invest.
 

wilky19

ClioSport Club Member
  Leon FR 184
couldn't you knock up a quick a frame from all that "scafolding" you bought and then get a small winch. i know you could rig somehing up
 
  Mk1 F4R
Yes like I explained lol...without hard evidence you aint getting nowhere.

and #2, how you expecing to fit an engine without one lol.

Ill rent one when i need too not doing it twice though or like you said ill go half with you

Dunno how I've missed this thread but its been a damn good read so far.

Can't believe your luck with the BE's but every project has set backs and hopefully you're getting them out of the way now!

Thanks
Well hopefully get it sorted soon


Go see john im sure he will lend you one to look at lol
 
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