new alloys = no performance :(

[steve_rt]

got a set of boss 15" XTRs yesterday with falken 195/45 rubber, and although i knew the acceleratioon would be a bit worse i wasnt prepared for this! altough you 172 / willy boys are obviously a lot faster in comparison, on my standard rims i could feel the pull on the RT, espec. around the 3K+ mark. now it is definitely a lot slower accelerating - a few figures, i got 110mph on the motorway w/standars, this morning on the motorway i struggled to get to 90mph!

I reckon the tracking needs re-doing since it seems to pull slightly to the left, but is there anything else which would cause this loss of performance or is it just a side-effect? what is aligning? camber? sorry if this is basic, not too sure on this!!

steve

 

[Tom]

the probably are much heavier than your previous wheels

 

[Steveold]

You might want thinner tyres too!

 

[clean16v]

dont forgot it isnt just about them being heavier, because the radius is larger your car will struggle to use its torque( i am aware that sentence makes no mechanical sense but you know what i mean!) i had 17s on my old RT but i kept my 13s for sunday drives. Side effect of big alloys i am afraid, especially seein as the 8v RT engine relies on its torque for performance

 

[steve_rt]

they arent that thick, 6.5" - talkied to a couple of VW boys today (a mk 1 golf, mk 3 po(l)o!) and both said that they didnt notice any of this, in fact perhaps a slight increase (not sure if i believe that tho!). Is this coz the VW lumps have more low-end grunt, as ive found the E-type renault lumps dont push till about 3.5k mark!

 

[steve_rt]

damn the posting at the same time! - clean, just read your post, answers my "grunt" question (excuse the expression )! do you reckon that checking the alignment / camber / tracking will improve matters? (sorry if these are actually the same thing!)

 

[geoff_clio182]

I would think you rolling radius is out. My 17"s on my 172 are only slightly larger so I cant feel too much of a difference.

 

[clean16v]

you can not adjust camber on the clios. none of these should be effecting straight line speed at all, if any were out then you would know about it around corners(ridiculous under steer)if it is pulling slightly to the left it may be your tracking. Check your ball joints for this as well. Dont forget thet with having wider wheels, your car reacts to bumps and grooves in the road more than before which would result in torque steer(under hard accelerating/braking)

 

[steve_rt]

yeah i have noticed that, didnt know the name for it...torque steer! noticed the bumps like yuou said...seems the only option will be to chip the lump to get the responsiveness back. id be very interested to hear what other RT owners have found with their rims.

 

[Tom]

take the wheels back and swapem for smaller lighter wheels

 

[CS_Matt]

i went from 13s to 15s and noticed a very slight difference.
top end was the same tho can hit 117mph on the speedo on both sets of wheels and thats with a hed load of mdf in the back for my sound system

 

[hon_n_gem]

so for example, if i changed my 15" SuperTs for 15" SuperLs, would i noticed better acceleration? I drive a 1.2 so whatever i do its not gonna move, but still, any difference would be nice.



Hon

 

[Daz]

I noticed a difference in performance when I put 16v Phase2 Alloys on my 1.2... Handling makes up for it though

Daz.

 

[Ben P]

I recently swapped my standard alloys 165/60/14 for a set of 15s 195/45/15 and definately noticed a difference.

The rolling diameter was only fractionally bigger but the extra width meant that there was noticable tramlining

To be honest theyve been on a month now and Ive totally got used to it. I really dont notice any decrease in acceleration either, maybe again its because Ive got used to it?

Give it a few weeks and it will be fine, but I would definately get it chipped anyway, I am going to,

 

[steve_rt]

how much is the chip - what company are you getting it done from? would you advise getting the exhaust first, or do they do a free re-map (if needed) once the exhaust is on? i reckon that once the tyres have bedded in a bit the performance may improve slightly, but i am well impressed with the looks, its totally transformed the car!

 

[steve a]

Yeah best to get the tracking done though. I run the same size on mine and did notice a difference, but then agian like daz said it makes up for it in handeling. Do what ben said and get it chiped. Should give back the loast performance.

 

[Rick]

Since I got my 15s it tops out at about 100. Although maybe with more road it could have gone higher, but it accelerates at a rate of about 1mph every 3 or 4 secs once you get up to that speed!

The handling certainly improved though, and the performance in the wet is much better. It does suffer a bit from tramlining on the brakes but thats only on the odd occasion.

Im getting my engine sorted in the new year to bring back some performance, i.e chip, get the breathing sorted, possibly some head work depending on £/bhp.

Hill Power can sort you out with a chip for about £150 fitted which is a total bargain.

Rick

 

[steve_rt]

wow, 150 is A LOT cheaper, just looked at sanspeed site and you only get 5bhp for 300 quid!

btw, whats tramlining? is that torque steer?

 

[Rick]

OK, This is my interpretation of tramlining which has never actually been explained to me but someone will know if Im wrong.

Basically its when you turn in and theres a slight hesitation before the car actually starts to corner, in mine this happens whilst braking usually at less than around 30 mph so its not too bad but you certainly notice it when it happens.

Torque steer is when you accelerate and the car pulls to one side, I heard that this was to do with the driveshafts being different lengths on each side of the gear box. When the driveshaft starts to turn, naturally theres a twisting effect on it that affects the turning force at the other end, if one driveshaft is longer than the other one then it twists more..............or something.

Hope this is all correct!

Rick

 

[BRUN]

when i went from 13s to 16v 15s...........i definitely noticed a difference, get your car chipped and it will feel normal again and maybe slightly faster

 

[steve_rt]

brun - have you chip[ped your motor? if so did you get it done at hill power? am thinking about getting it done there, but am a bit wary of the claimed 10/12 bhp increase, esp. since superchips can only get 5bhps, for double the price!!!

 

[Rick]

Brun had his done at Hill Power, thats where Im going to get mine done. They know what their on about so you can trust them with you car. Also I believe he maps each one individually as opposed to getting a Superchips one where you get a sort of one size fits all chip.

Rick

 

[BRUN]

yea, an yea

well mate my car is runnin 74bhp at the wheels, and is at stage one of hill power moddin, chip, induction kit, de-cat

based on the fact my car is 75 bhp at the fly standard, ive gained whatever percentage my transmission loss is, which could be between 10-30%.......and seein as im on my original clutch id say its 20%+

 

[steve_rt]

sh*t thats not bad! hows the insurance, or are you keeepin it a bit hush?!

also, do you reccomend i get the breathing (induction / exhaust) sorted first before i have it chipped?

 

[Rick]

If you want it all to work together properly then you should get the chip fitted after youve had the exhaust and filter upgraded. Otherwise it may end up running lean if you get the chip done first and then fit the filter and zorst. if that makes sense

Brun - do you have to refit your cat every time you have an MoT or can you get through without it?

Rick

 

[BRUN]

yea you need it all in place first

insurance is fine, EVERYTHING on my car is declared, and it only went up by £50 for everythin, the whole lot, engine mods, suspension, wheels, brakes etc....

no i didnt refit my cat as my car is 1992 and i got away with it, it would have failed otherwise

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by RT_owner on 04 December 2002


OK, This is my interpretation of tramlining which has never actually been explained to me but someone will know if Im wrong.

Basically its when you turn in and theres a slight hesitation before the car actually starts to corner, in mine this happens whilst braking usually at less than around 30 mph so its not too bad but you certainly notice it when it happens.

Torque steer is when you accelerate and the car pulls to one side, I heard that this was to do with the driveshafts being different lengths on each side of the gear box. When the driveshaft starts to turn, naturally theres a twisting effect on it that affects the turning force at the other end, if one driveshaft is longer than the other one then it twists more..............or something.

Hope this is all correct!

Rick





Not bad, but slightly wrong on the tramlining,

Its hard to explain, you tyres will follow lines in the road. For example if there is a rut in the road your tyres will follow it, it will sort of pull the steering wheel a small bit, very noticable under heavy accelaration and light/med braking.

It was very bad on my old 205 GTi (with aftermarket alloys and big tyres) thankfully my Clio 172 isnt that bad, but then again powersteering nulliefies a lot of feeling from the driver.

Torque steer is exactly as you said and is found mostly on small cars with big engines.

 

[clean16v]

"Basically its when you turn in and theres a slight hesitation before the car actually starts to corner"

if this is happening you should check your bottom ball joints. my old rt did this, i had them changed and the improvement was incredible. so much so that i thought i was micheal schumacher and crashed!! 4 hours after i had it done. note: do NOT take corners at 80mph+

 

[clio_racer]

Dont know what youre complaining about 15s with 45s cant be that bad, Im running 16s with 45s, theres a problem. Most the speedo can muster on the motorway now is 95, although mine would only do 114 before the alloys (and rebuild) anyway, so given the increased diameter I would imagine its about the same. Id love to see how fast itd go with them off.

Whats the most anyones had out of an RT?

 

[RobFenn]

For the guys who swap their wheels over regulary, do you do it yourself or take them to halfords or something?

 

[Ben H]

If you do the wheels up by hand, or get the garage to do so, with a torque wrench then it should be fine. Get a good quality bit and longish wrench and it should be fine. Im always taking my wheels off to inspect the tyres and clean the brake callipers.

Oh, and forget about locking wheels nuts if you plan to chnge wheels regularly! They barely stand up to being undone once, let alone regularly!

 

[RobFenn]

doh, got them as standard though, guess i could take them out considerin my offside front is kerbed neway. lol

Cheers ben

 

[Fred@BTM]

Torque wrench???? Eh???? I just use the std wrench and jump on the fecker!!!!! (thatll be why my wheel bearings squeaking then!!!)

 

[Ben H]

LOL!

 

[Rick]

I agree with Ben, a big wrench can sort most things out not least tightening up your wheels. Having said that, whenever I put my wheels back on I always wonder whether its worth investing in a torque wrench just to make sure Im not f**king it up. Im sure not having one will come back to haunt me one of these days........

One more note on the "what the hell is tramlining?" discussion. Clean16v, the hesitation on turn in doesnt happen all the time in mine, in fact it only seems to occur on the same two corners on my way into work which ties it in with what _KDF was saying about the tyres not being able to ride differences in the road surface.

Rick

 

[clean16v]

not quite sure what _KDF was talking about RT_owner but it may be worth checking them anyway, you can do it yourself. Jack the car up and grip the wheel at the bottom and top and try and make it move. if it moves you need new ball joints, if not your fine. sorry if you already knew this, just trying to help

 

[Ben H]

Yeah - could be ball joints. But movement like that could also be the thrust washer in the diff or a wheel bearing. If the car hesitates on turn in, it could also be the steering rack.