New engine running...however odd noise

[sonny172cup]

Fired the donor engine up today and started first time and sounded very healthy...

However I have a noise when I depress the clutch...sounds like a something rubbing...makes a grating noise, the noise stops when foot is off the clutch.

Have a biffed up putting the clutch in wrong? I 100% made sure it was aligned and used the correct tool, bolts was torqued correctly.

I also have lots of smoke coming off the exhaust manifold/bolts area...I know this can be normal when starting up a engine for the first time, but got a bit concerned when It still still smoked after 5 min...could this be clutch related?

Oh the dramas, makes me just want to quit!

edit...clutch is a brand new valeo one with new cover.

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[sonny172cup]

I would like to add, this is only when at idle, I have not engaged any of the gears yet.

 

[Lawro]

The noise you are describing sounds like the clutch release bearing to me.

 

[sonny172cup]

The CRB was brand new and grease applied to correct areas, how can this be creating the noise? whats the fix?

 

[mark123]

Was the flywheel rusty? Might go away after you use it for a bit.

Smoke is normal, just from your oily hands probably, it will just be taking a few minutes to get hot enough to smoke. Clutch smoke has a distinctive smell different from oil.
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[sonny172cup]

Flywheels was rusty (mild) and I cleaned it up with wet and dry paper.

Ok I will go and fire it up and leave it for longer, so you reckon the noise will go away then if I start to drive it?

 

[Dan@SJM]

See if it selects gears. The smoke is perfectly normal.

 

[sonny172cup]

Just tried to put it in gear, 1st and reverse cannot be selected? When engaged into 2nd the noise became louder! Did not sound good!

The smoke was coming out of the pin dot hole on top of the cam cover and crank case breather (car is on ITB).

Regarding the gear, I unclipped the gear linkage so might have put it in the wrong place, however I was 100% sure it worked before starting the engine! (hope that makes sense).

 

[mi16chris]

Did u put the plate in the wrong way round

 

[Dan@SJM]

If it selected gears I doubt he has done that.

 

[mi16chris]

If it selected gears I doubt he has done that.

Did he to just say it won't go in to gear

 

[sonny172cup]

No the plate was fitted correctly (can only go one way).

 

[Dan@SJM]

You'd be surprised. Ive seen and heard people fit them wrong.

 

[sonny172cup]

 

[mark123]

I'd establish whether it is just the selector that needs adjusting.

Do you know if the engine is any good?
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[sonny172cup]

Will look into the selector, how does do you adjust it, can it be done without removing the gearbox?

I was assured that the engine was fine, with around 65k miles, looked in good condition

 

[mark123]

Just undo the pinch bolt and make sure you can get all the gears.
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[sonny172cup]

Sorry Mark thought you meant the clutch gear leaver...I tried selecting gears when i refitted the gear linkage and it all seemed to work fine, however I will double check.

 

[sonny172cup]

I can select reverse gear, not first so I think the gear linage does need adjusting.

Still got the noise though and cam breather is smoking, it looks like steam, my old engine never did this.

​Im starting to lose the faith now.....

 

[Chip-mk1]

Does it only give the noise when the clutch gets right to the floor?

Ie if you push it 80% of the way down, does it work normally and no noise?

 

[sonny172cup]

As soon as you apply pressure to the pedal, even if I move the selector leaver by hand you can hear the noise starting up...gets louder when fully depressed.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sounds like release bearing really knackered from that description, if its happening as soon as the starts to press on the fingers.

Pain if its a new one, was it a genuine one?

 

[sonny172cup]

yes it was a new one provided with the clutch, was a Valeo item...oh man I cant really be assed to take the gear box apart again lol

 

[mark123]

I agree with chip, if it starts with light pressure. I had a new one go like that on a different car. Hopefully it is not the thrust bearing.

The smoke steam might just be some moisture in there that will boil off fairly quickly, if it has been stood for a while. I don't think mine smokes from the breather when just ticking over.

 

[sonny172cup]

Yes it makes sense, I still have the old one from my old gear box, and that one looked a lot better quality than the new one I put in, I did have doubts. Do you reckon I should use the old one?

The engine had been sitting in the garage for about a year (no oil) so I assume it could be that then.

Do I have to drain the box fluid in order to change the thrust bearing, do you think there is enough room?

 

[MG cup]

Alright Sonny, anyone would have replaced the release bearing so its just one of those things.

If the car is in drivable condition there's no harm in driving it for a while and see if the problems still present, just make sure all fluid levels are right first.

You do have to drain the gearbox to split it from the engine really, you could try it with the wet side shaft connected although I wouldnt personally, just empty it into a clean container and re-use.

 

[sonny172cup]

Cheers Morgan, yea the car drives, but I dont want to cause any damage to the new clutch, just in case, so do you think it will be fine to use the old release bearing, once its cleaned up and inspected?

 

[MG cup]

For the sake of £10-£20 I would just get a new one, if you have to do it again in a few months you'll be even more pissed with it.

Driving it with a dodgy release bearing wont cause any damage, have you pulled back the little rubber boot on clutch fork and checked its seated ok and also driven it up and down your drive checking for clutch drag?

 

[sonny172cup]

I ordered a new one today, I have tried to look inside but really need someone to depress clutch.. im starting nights this week,so time will be tight! dam it.

 

[sonny172cup]

Got a friend to depress the clutch today and inspected through the inspection hole in gearbox and it seems to be ok, no metal shaving or anything. started it up and noise is still there, however I did notice the selector fork vibrating when the grommet is off, is this suppose to happen?

Not got time to drop the box this week

 

[MG cup]

Yeah they do that, its just harmonic vibration, it will come and go as you rev it up and down. I would personally advise a small drive just to check the noise out further.

 

[sonny172cup]

Yea I will try that, need to insure it first.

Iv had trouble lining the gear linkage pinch bolt up, keep missing 1st or reverse gear! do you think that could be causing the noise at all ( cant see it myself as its coming from flywheel) but worth a shot?

 

[MG cup]

No it won't be that, really needs two people to set gear linkage. Follow the Pure Motorsport setting up guide for doing it, you will get it on there site.

 

[sonny172cup]

Just checked out on on their webpage, thanks. Will try it out tomorrow to mark it up before dropping the box.

 

[mark123]

I just do it from underneath, keep tweaking it until I can select all the gears from there.

 

[sonny172cup]

Right, decided to tackle this by dropping the subframe to replace the clutch, on closer inspection I have a hair line crack on the sump, so will be replacing the sump also.

So....a few nights ago I soaked all the subframe bolts in WD40 and tonight I loosed the bolts....until I hit a few problems. I managed to share two of the 13mm bolts holding one of the subframe support brackets (subframe to main body)...are these captive nuts? They was totally rusted and just disintegrated when turned, the other side is not so bad but wont undo fully.

The 4 larger main subframe bolts seem to be undoing fine.

The passenger wishbone support bracket bolt (13mm) also snapped due to rust, are these captive nuts also?

God what a nightmare im having with this, all extra work that should never have happened.

Iv just finished a 10 hour day at work and want to get a few hours done on the car every evening...so am out on the drive way at the moment, so any speedy replies will be welcomed

 

[mark123]

All the ones you mentioned are captive nuts AFAIK. Not sure how you'd sort them but it must happen all the time so I'm sure someone will know.

Impact wrench is good for bolts that have been sat for years, less chance of shearing.

The big rear bolts are the worst ones if they start to spin, very difficult to get access so take it easy particularly with those ones.

Not much help sorry.
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[sonny172cup]

Thanks Mark,

Another problem which I think is related to the clutch noise, is the gearbox and engine are flexing when the dogbone support bracket is removed, I noticed this when I was tightening it up when the engine went in, I think the imput shaft has made contact with the friction plate damaging it (bent?) in hindsight I should have fitted it before the engine went in.

So for ppl who have swapped sumps over with engine already in how do they get around this? It was this that caused the sump to crack when I was torquing up the bolts. When I original put the sump in after changing the gasket I used a straight edge on the flywheel side as per the Haynes instructions so this would not happen!

 

[Nickwillyhams]

The only real fix apart from cutting open the chassis to replace the captive nuts would be to carefully drill out the remaining bolt stubbs and fit a helicoil.

You can grind the stubb down if its poking out it'll give you a fresh flat(ish) surface so you can keep it nice and centred whilst you drill

I feel your pain tho!

 

[sonny172cup]

Why the hell do Renault do this, why cant they use 8.8HT bolts lol...I have seen ppl on here respray those parts, so they must have come out somehow and be able to be put back in.