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Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/Wilwood/2118
- Thread starter oliver.james
- Start date
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- Tags
- cup
Hey Olli, think your probably doing the right thing, got my car back now (for a bit) and loving the RS2, 5th gear is just like driving in 3rd now.
Managed 49.2mpg on a run as well the other day, need to spend some serious under bonnet time though to get it looking as tidy as yours!
Managed 49.2mpg on a run as well the other day, need to spend some serious under bonnet time though to get it looking as tidy as yours!
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
I'm a little disappointed with the news of the cams. I purchased mine from jms themselfs stating that I wanted them fitted with the rs2 and at the time was told this was fine. Now news has risen that it's not ideal I feel a little let down. It's good to see your taking the safe and logical route though and it sounds the right thing to do. I think I'll have to follow you on this decision. I will have to contact jms next week to discuss the situation on weather I can go ahead with it or not.
I'm a little disappointed with the news of the cams. I purchased mine from jms themselfs stating that I wanted them fitted with the rs2 and at the time was told this was fine. Now news has risen that it's not ideal I feel a little let down. It's good to see your taking the safe and logical route though and it sounds the right thing to do. I think I'll have to follow you on this decision. I will have to contact jms next week to discuss the situation on weather I can go ahead with it or not.
172/1.2/E30
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
I´ll be a brave boy and try the 428s with the RS2. If they don´t like each other it´s time for bodies i think.
Would like to know the proper reason why this combination is not supposed to work as the 428s normally give gains on standard inlet and ITB setups.
I´ll be a brave boy and try the 428s with the RS2. If they don´t like each other it´s time for bodies i think.
Would like to know the proper reason why this combination is not supposed to work as the 428s normally give gains on standard inlet and ITB setups.Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
In the standard plenum, the air is volumed into 4 near equal runners, so each cylinder gets roughly the equal amount of air, at a high flow rate due to the size of the upper part - the RS2 has 4 short runners, with a smaller volume of air to feed them, plus the intake for each cylinder is not direct like it is with itbs/standard inlet - it is all fed from one side. That works on standard internals due to JMS's extensive research making the shape of the inlet best for the standard capabilities of an internally standard engine. When you start modifying internally, that then changes those flow rates, which 'could' make the manifold more restrictive rather than better. Though as JMS have stated, it was only originally designed for a standard engine. The S1600 inlet is very different due to it's more direct inlet route, ie coming from below and feeding all cylinders directly meaning each cylinder getting a larger volume more direct flow.Thats how I see it
In the standard plenum, the air is volumed into 4 near equal runners, so each cylinder gets roughly the equal amount of air, at a high flow rate due to the size of the upper part - the RS2 has 4 short runners, with a smaller volume of air to feed them, plus the intake for each cylinder is not direct like it is with itbs/standard inlet - it is all fed from one side. That works on standard internals due to JMS's extensive research making the shape of the inlet best for the standard capabilities of an internally standard engine. When you start modifying internally, that then changes those flow rates, which 'could' make the manifold more restrictive rather than better. Though as JMS have stated, it was only originally designed for a standard engine. The S1600 inlet is very different due to it's more direct inlet route, ie coming from below and feeding all cylinders directly meaning each cylinder getting a larger volume more direct flow.Thats how I see it
In the standard plenum, the air is volumed into 4 near equal runners, so each cylinder gets roughly the equal amount of air, at a high flow rate due to the size of the upper part - the RS2 has 4 short runners, with a smaller volume of air to feed them, plus the intake for each cylinder is not direct like it is with itbs/standard inlet - it is all fed from one side. That works on standard internals due to JMS's extensive research making the shape of the inlet best for the standard capabilities of an internally standard engine. When you start modifying internally, that then changes those flow rates, which 'could' make the manifold more restrictive rather than better. Though as JMS have stated, it was only originally designed for a standard engine. The S1600 inlet is very different due to it's more direct inlet route, ie coming from below and feeding all cylinders directly meaning each cylinder getting a larger volume more direct flow.Thats how I see it
Think you've hit the nail in the head there Russ, I can imagine if the RS2 had a larger carbon airbox it would be better for other work like cams etc but on a standard car it would work as well/loose throttle response as well.
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
Thats cool dude.Well looking at his graphs its very hard to say, as according to his last RR session, with the cams and RS2 he has 183bhp and 135lb ft torque as far as I can see - thats a gain of 13bhp, and a loss of 15lb ft - do you have before and after results on the same rollers for his dude? (Serious Q)
Thats cool dude.Well looking at his graphs its very hard to say, as according to his last RR session, with the cams and RS2 he has 183bhp and 135lb ft torque as far as I can see - thats a gain of 13bhp, and a loss of 15lb ft - do you have before and after results on the same rollers for his dude? (Serious Q
)
172/1.2/E30
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
First runs with the RS2 alone were 182 bhp and about 145lb ft iirc. But they were done on a different dyno which makes them not comparable (unfortunately). But 182 bhp from the RS2 alone seems to be quite low imo as most cars were around the 190 mark and had a good amount of torque (JMS states that as a usual power output in the RS2 thread). My question is only if there is any evidence from a test run to prove that the RS2 does not work with aftermarket cams, especially as James stated somewhere that his car worked fine with c&bs and the inlet.
I might just wait until my kit arrives (hopefully) and try the combination then we might have some evidence if it works or not.
BTW: sorry Ollie for spamming your progress thread
First runs with the RS2 alone were 182 bhp and about 145lb ft iirc. But they were done on a different dyno which makes them not comparable (unfortunately). But 182 bhp from the RS2 alone seems to be quite low imo as most cars were around the 190 mark and had a good amount of torque (JMS states that as a usual power output in the RS2 thread). My question is only if there is any evidence from a test run to prove that the RS2 does not work with aftermarket cams, especially as James stated somewhere that his car worked fine with c&bs and the inlet.
I might just wait until my kit arrives (hopefully) and try the combination then we might have some evidence if it works or not.
BTW: sorry Ollie for spamming your progress thread
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
I think the proof is on his last RR dude - Dyno Dynamics are known to be super accurate - on RS Tunings rollers my old home brewed itb'd Clio made 193bhp/162lb ft of torque for reference, and a standard 172 would make 160-165 bhp and 145-150lb ft of torque on a DD rolling road - unless there is an issue with Ktecs rollers id lean towards that being quite accurateStill, it is unknown territory, and as you say it may need more investigation, it will just cost a lot of it doesn't work
I think the proof is on his last RR dude - Dyno Dynamics are known to be super accurate - on RS Tunings rollers my old home brewed itb'd Clio made 193bhp/162lb ft of torque for reference, and a standard 172 would make 160-165 bhp and 145-150lb ft of torque on a DD rolling road - unless there is an issue with Ktecs rollers id lean towards that being quite accurate
Still, it is unknown territory, and as you say it may need more investigation, it will just cost a lot of it doesn't work
KTM 990 SD / S60 D5
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
Ollie,get the car mapped as is and then you will know were you stand power wise and how the car feels,seems to me from reading your thread that you at very happy with your car at the moment and mapping is only going to make it better.Don't get all tied up on power figures,you like everyone else will always want your car to be quicker,no matter what the power is.
By the way the car looks great.
Ollie,get the car mapped as is and then you will know were you stand power wise and how the car feels,seems to me from reading your thread that you at very happy with your car at the moment and mapping is only going to make it better.Don't get all tied up on power figures,you like everyone else will always want your car to be quicker,no matter what the power is.
By the way the car looks great.
Ollie's Silver Cup
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
Russ' technical explanations are awesome! :approve:
Good to hear you've finally got your car back; for a short while at least anyway. I'm assuming it's going back to Renault with the gearbox noise?
Also good to hear you're pleased with your RS2.
As there's no conclusive results, as such, it's not guaranteed that they won't work.
But, after spending a while thinking about it, I don't want to go to the effort and expense of having the cams installed and risk upsetting a setup that I'm really happy with.
The way I'm looking at it; if in the future, testing conclusively shows that a certain profile compliments the manifolds performance, then it's perhaps something I'll reconsider at that point. But for now, I'm just going to continue to enjoy the car and the setup as it is.
Russ' technical explanations are awesome! :approve:
Good to hear you've finally got your car back; for a short while at least anyway. I'm assuming it's going back to Renault with the gearbox noise?
Also good to hear you're pleased with your RS2.
As there's no conclusive results, as such, it's not guaranteed that they won't work.
But, after spending a while thinking about it, I don't want to go to the effort and expense of having the cams installed and risk upsetting a setup that I'm really happy with.
The way I'm looking at it; if in the future, testing conclusively shows that a certain profile compliments the manifolds performance, then it's perhaps something I'll reconsider at that point. But for now, I'm just going to continue to enjoy the car and the setup as it is.
Ollie's Silver Cup
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
Didn't see it as hijacking at all mate, it's all relevant discussion.
Sorry for the thread hijacking dude
Didn't see it as hijacking at all mate, it's all relevant discussion.
Ollie's Silver Cup
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
I've just cut my nimbus heat shield to size (and my arm in the process, offcuts are sharp ).
Looks better than the current one and covers the brake pipes and loom nicely.
Awaiting my streamline products any day now too.
I've just cut my nimbus heat shield to size (and my arm in the process, offcuts are sharp
).Looks better than the current one and covers the brake pipes and loom nicely.
Awaiting my streamline products any day now too.
Jamie86
ClioSport Club Member
RS175,595,205gti,172
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
That Nimbus is awesome stuff I had some in my (yes you can laugh) Seicento with a turbo conversion, I used it near the rad,and water pipes as the turbo liked to heat the water up nicely! It worked so well you could hold your hand the other side of it from the turbo even after a run. I was very impressed!
That Nimbus is awesome stuff I had some in my (yes you can laugh) Seicento with a turbo conversion, I used it near the rad,and water pipes as the turbo liked to heat the water up nicely! It worked so well you could hold your hand the other side of it from the turbo even after a run. I was very impressed!
Ollie's Silver Cup
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
Not a very interesting photo, as it's not on the car yet, just cut to size/shape.
The same shape as the current piece, but deeper to cover the pipes and loom.
And just an engine bay shot. It got a bit dirty from travelling over the past couple of weeks, so I've given it a quick wipe over!
Off down to Danny at 519 tomorrow for a timing check; I want to make sure it's running right before I get mapping sorted. :approve:
Pics?
Not a very interesting photo, as it's not on the car yet, just cut to size/shape.
The same shape as the current piece, but deeper to cover the pipes and loom.
And just an engine bay shot. It got a bit dirty from travelling over the past couple of weeks, so I've given it a quick wipe over!
Off down to Danny at 519 tomorrow for a timing check; I want to make sure it's running right before I get mapping sorted. :approve:
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
So smart, I may be interested in the 428s if you havent sold them PM me a price
So smart, I may be interested in the 428s if you havent sold them PM me a price
172 cup RS2 - 330ci
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
Good idea with the timing check! Any news on when your getting mapped? Dosent look that mine will be fitted tomorrow now, Tom hasnt come back to me, so I've asked him to send it to me if he is too busy, I'm fed up of waiting now TBH It dosent look too complicated to fit ? Am I right by this?
Good idea with the timing check! Any news on when your getting mapped? Dosent look that mine will be fitted tomorrow now, Tom hasnt come back to me, so I've asked him to send it to me if he is too busy, I'm fed up of waiting now TBH
It dosent look too complicated to fit ? Am I right by this?
Daz.
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 200 RS EDC
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
You got the diamond yet? -Mines not turned up
I've just cut my nimbus heat shield to size (and my arm in the process, offcuts are sharp
Looks better than the current one and covers the brake pipes and loom nicely.
Awaiting my streamline products any day now too.
You got the diamond yet? -Mines not turned up
Ollie's Silver Cup
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
It was done when I bought the car, so it's not due a belt change or anything and I've no reason to think otherwise. But, for £60 it's peace of mind before the car's mapped.
They're no longer available mate.
Nope, not yet. Chris (Bic) said that my order was all finished except for the splitter; the splitter was going to be lacquered last Friday, so I'm expecting it any day now.
I'd have thought you'd have yours already!
Thanks!
I hope you get things sorted with the RS2 fitting!
Good stuff that, and looks smart to boot
Does your timing need checking dude? Who last did a belt?
<8 your car
It was done when I bought the car, so it's not due a belt change or anything and I've no reason to think otherwise. But, for £60 it's peace of mind before the car's mapped.
So smart, I may be interested in the 428s if you havent sold them PM me a price
They're no longer available mate.
You got the diamond yet? -Mines not turned up
Nope, not yet. Chris (Bic) said that my order was all finished except for the splitter; the splitter was going to be lacquered last Friday, so I'm expecting it any day now.
I'd have thought you'd have yours already!
Thanks!
Good idea with the timing check! Any news on when your getting mapped? Dosent look that mine will be fitted tomorrow now, Tom hasnt come back to me, so I've asked him to send it to me if he is too busy, I'm fed up of waiting now TBH
I hope you get things sorted with the RS2 fitting!
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
Nothing major, couple of hours tops.Good idea with the timing check! Any news on when your getting mapped? Dosent look that mine will be fitted tomorrow now, Tom hasnt come back to me, so I've asked him to send it to me if he is too busy, I'm fed up of waiting now TBH
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
I fitted mine. I'd say more like 4 hours, maybe more. Maybe the JMS boys can do it in 2, but the bolts underneath the manifold are awkward to reach. I'd say taking your time to get it nice and all the wiring moved about and made to look tidy you are talking a days work for a first time fit. And that is on a 172 cup i.e. no air con. With air con probably takea bit longer as even less space.
Good idea with the timing check! Any news on when your getting mapped? Dosent look that mine will be fitted tomorrow now, Tom hasnt come back to me, so I've asked him to send it to me if he is too busy, I'm fed up of waiting now TBH
I fitted mine. I'd say more like 4 hours, maybe more. Maybe the JMS boys can do it in 2, but the bolts underneath the manifold are awkward to reach. I'd say taking your time to get it nice and all the wiring moved about and made to look tidy you are talking a days work for a first time fit. And that is on a 172 cup i.e. no air con. With air con probably takea bit longer as even less space.
172 cup RS2 - 330ci
Thanks, I'm gonna ask him to send it to me then, hopefully I can fit it a week tomorrow!!!
172 track thingy
172 cup RS2 - 330ci
Should ave got ITB's
Lol, then I'd be stuck with fitment ;-) loom would be everywhere!!!
Ollie's Silver Cup
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
Not long got home from Danny's (519 Automotive) and it's good news regarding the timing. :approve:
Also had a quick blast out in his mk1; awesome!
I'm sure I'll be back at 519 in the near future. Top guy and very knowledgeable and genuinely helpful.
Not long got home from Danny's (519 Automotive) and it's good news regarding the timing. :approve:
Also had a quick blast out in his mk1; awesome!
I'm sure I'll be back at 519 in the near future. Top guy and very knowledgeable and genuinely helpful.
Ollie's Silver Cup
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
Glad the timing's alright; I can proceed to mapping now! :approve:
Liking the Spax coilover setup though.
Godd to here all is well
Glad the timing's alright; I can proceed to mapping now! :approve:
Liking the Spax coilover setup though.
Ollie's Silver Cup
Re: Ollie's Silver Cup - JMS RS2/428s/Wilwood/2118
It was something like 610x600, in the twin layered stuff.
It was something like 610x600, in the twin layered stuff.
