Piggy back : what´s the best one for a 172

[Eros]

I´m planning to install some cams on my 172 clio sport. Those cams were never tested on a standard ECU (remaped)... I´ll probably need a Piggy back.
I´ve read many threads on this but they were kinda confusing...

What´s the best piggy back for the F4R keeping the fbw throttle control.

Why anyone got the Apexi ? aren´t supposed to be good ?

 

[kully]

the only piggy back ecu that i can think of is the smt6

 

[Eros]

What about the unichip ? All those piggy backs control fuel and the ingnition timing or they just control fuel?

 

[edde]

What about the unichip ? All those piggy backs control fuel and the ingnition timing or they just control fuel?

Depend on the chip and what its been programmed to do.

Don't bother with the unichip though or any piggy back since the stock ECU can now be mapped by so many places so well.

 

[Eros]

I know the stock ECU can be remaped, but the cams I´m going to set up, are usually used on race cars with standalone management, they were never tested using stock ECU. Nobody is sure if those cams would work with just a remap. That´s why I´m asking about the piggy back.
I don´t want standalone management because I would loose the traction control.
So I think I have to go with the piggy back but I have no idea if any piggy back would work of one is better than the other for the clio.

 

[edde]

I know the stock ECU can be remaped, but the cams I´m going to set up, are usually used on race cars with standalone management, they were never tested using stock ECU. Nobody is sure if those cams would work with just a remap. That´s why I´m asking about the piggy back.
I don´t want standalone management because I would loose the traction control.
So I think I have to go with the piggy back but I have no idea if any piggy back would work of one is better than the other for the clio.

Stock ECU is more capable at running cams that the puggy back unit will. Piggy back units won't help run an advanced cam as such any better (they are likly to be worse) than a remapped ECU.

It would have to be a very strong cam as such not to run on stock ECU mapped correctly.

 

[Eros]

I´ve heard the stock ecu can´t handle the overlap they have "MAP" issues or something like it...
If the stock ecu is more capable of running cams ... what are the piggy backs for ?

 

[edde]

I´ve heard the stock ecu can´t handle the overlap they have "MAP" issues or something like it...
If the stock ecu is more capable of running cams ... what are the piggy backs for ?

Depend what cam your running high long duration cams as such can cause problems for the ecu for the map sensor but a piggy back won't help in any way.

Piggy back is for when the stock ECU cannot be mapped or can be used for a cheap way of sorting the car if you turbo it as such.

 

[Fred@BTM]

the only issues i've heard of are with a certain catcams profile

 

[Eros]

the only issues i've heard of are with a certain catcams profile

issues about too much overlap ?

 

[ja.jack]

Yep. You are confused, and 9 replies later, non the wiser. lol

 

[Bunny xrs]

I am going to use haltech piggyback its old but it will done a work just I am building f4r engine with 197 pistons and non sport f4r cams so I ll need to play with the ignition deg but I am honstly ve a problem with a basemap I am f4r engine running on 1.6 immo off ecu file some one saying you cant puts 172/182 file on a ems3134 do I should to get 1*2 ecu kit or there is any solution for the present ecu

 

[Brigsy]

Fit a decent standalone ecu instead of piggyback, its much better overall. Ecumaster black, maxxecu, link all support the clio2 canbus so oem dash works ok

 

[PerthRS]

With reference to a local build in Melbourne. From my understanding the black from ECUmaster doesn't support cruise/speed limiter and ESC.
He was also having trouble with auto windows and trip computer functionality.
So its not 100% complete integration with CANbus unfortunately.
(This was from August/September last year. And he has since sold the car. So not sure if there have been any updates).

 

[Brigsy]

With reference to a local build in Melbourne. From my understanding the black from ECUmaster doesn't support cruise/speed limiter and ESC.
He was also having trouble with auto windows and trip computer functionality.
So its not 100% complete integration with CANbus unfortunately.
(This was from August/September last year. And he has since sold the car. So not sure if there have been any updates).

Cruise needs to be wired differently but can be setup. Asr probably wont work on any aftermarket ecu but thats no problem as its pretty crap, mine is disabled.

Trip is also quite easy to get working. Not sure about auto windows, cant see how that would be related?

Overall works well. No warning lights on the dash and fully mappable, leagues ahead of oem/piggyback.

 

[PerthRS]

Cruise needs to be wired differently but can be setup. Asr probably wont work on any aftermarket ecu but thats no problem as its pretty crap, mine is disabled.

Trip is also quite easy to get working. Not sure about auto windows, cant see how that would be related?

Overall works well. No warning lights on the dash and fully mappable, leagues ahead of oem/piggyback.

Ah thats good to hear! If it can be properly integrated. Thats good for future proofing the x65 platform.

He didn't have the setup that long to be fair. As he was tackling problems with activating the X85 desphaser (197/200 engine internals and inlet in/on a 1*2 block/head) before he sold it. Was still able to get 182hp atw out of it.
Unfortunately. He also had problems with the Road Race Rally Engineering wiring harness adapter block warping from heat under the bonnet. Which caused more problems after a bit of time/track work.

 

[Brigsy]

Best solution is to build a new wiring loom for the standalone ecu. The original engine looms are well past their best on most clio2 now.

X85 vvt is variable on pmw, and requires a cam sensor to monitor cam angle changes which 182 head does not have.

Mine runs 197 head with cam sensor for full sequential injection & 197 vvt setup with full 45deg of advance on ecumaster. Works well no issues.

 

[PerthRS]

Ah, my apologies. Just had a re-read of the build thread on the local forum.
He's using the 197 head. Which would allow cam sensor placement and allow full utilisation of the X85 dephaser (drilled and tapped for the extra 1*2 timing belt idler).
Do you run this setup on your Kangoo? or another project I'm not aware of?

 

[Bunny xrs]

Fit a decent standalone ecu instead of piggyback, its much better overall. Ecumaster black, maxxecu, link all support the clio2 canbus so oem dash works ok

We ve here Egyptian standalone called sptronic it will be cheap abit a dudes here using it probably I ll try it if I dont found solution for a std ecu to put 1*2 maps on it

 

[Brigsy]

Ah, my apologies. Just had a re-read of the build thread on the local forum.
He's using the 197 head. Which would allow cam sensor placement and allow full utilisation of the X85 dephaser (drilled and tapped for the extra 1*2 timing belt idler).
Do you run this setup on your Kangoo? or another project I'm not aware of?

I run this setup on my clio trophy. https://cliosport.net/threads/t-turbo-is-back.536356/page-6

Kangoo will be on ecumaster this year.

 

[PerthRS]

I run this setup on my clio trophy. https://cliosport.net/threads/t-turbo-is-back.536356/page-6

Kangoo will be on ecumaster this year.

Oh, right! That's quite the setup!
Honestly, I've completely missed this thread.
Will give this a read when it's quiet at work today! Cheers

 

[Flob]

I run this setup on my clio trophy. https://cliosport.net/threads/t-turbo-is-back.536356/page-6

Kangoo will be on ecumaster this year.

What made you choose ecumaster Brigsy? I've a decent amount of seat time with mostly Link and Megasquirt and a bit with others but for the next project I'm thinking of trying Maxxecu, Haltech or Ecumaster.

Maxxecu is interesting as I would love to do a project in the future with an 8hp but always keen to learn about alternatives. Link is pretty solid tbf but CAN integration doesn't seem to be as good as others.

 

[Brigsy]

What made you choose ecumaster Brigsy? I've a decent amount of seat time with mostly Link and Megasquirt and a bit with others but for the next project I'm thinking of trying Maxxecu, Haltech or Ecumaster.

Maxxecu is interesting as I would love to do a project in the future with an 8hp but always keen to learn about alternatives. Link is pretty solid tbf but CAN integration doesn't seem to be as good as others.

Went with ecumaster as they supported clio2 dash via can, and everything else was piggyback at the time. With decent other options available now id pick whatever suits, maxxecu and haltech are good, i would pick the best spec out of all 3 and roll with it.

Ive went with ecumaster for my kangoo for ease of using current maps for base and it also supports clio3, which will hopefully work well. I was also very tempted to go motec on the kangoo after seeing somebody running it on clio3 canbus. Price was not too out of budget.

 

[Flob]

Completely agree with sticking with an ecu unless the spec doesn't support what you want. When I started doing LINK stuff there were a load of things I fucked up because I assumed they worked the same way as other ecus.

I like using the modelled modes when available on ecu's but there are quite a lot of differences usually. So the basic mapping is all good. For example on the LINK when using modelled fuel mode you don't use any IAT correction or warm up enrichment tables. So for ages I just couldn't understand why AFR was drifting so badly with temperature away from the dyno session, the manual wasn't clear enough and I only stumbled across the issue while on the LINK forum, I was in effect double compensating.

Do you like the mapping software on the ecumaster? The ecu is always well regarded when I chat to people.

 

[Brigsy]

Know exactly where your coming from on different ecu's having quirks of the software.

Ecumaster not too bad but there is differences/quirks to other stuff ive worked on. I can get round my version v2 now and have stuck with it for that reason. V3 is similar but different. Plenty of support though.

 

[Flob]

Maybe if you're at Anglesey this year and have the laptop/car you could show me the software John? If you have time between you fixing 10 other peoples cars 😂