Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Over reads imo
As said stick it on some different rollers.
Well you're in a minority there.
How many cars have you run at SRR out of interest?
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Really impressive F4R rolling road results from SRR
- Thread starter Chip-mk1
- Start date
Well you're in a minority there.
How many cars have you run at SRR out of interest?
182
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
Similar rollers
Poor. Troll is poor.
Cub.
ClioSport Moderator
I'm not going to spend too long debating it with you, but you've come on a thread and questioned the validity of a rolling road (which is widely known for independence and accuracy) and then when questioned on your experience of said rolling road you make some 'trolly' statement without actually answering the questions. I'd say that's trolling, or a poor version of it anyway
Oh, and there is some rich irony in you stating RR figures are a load of chuff when you seem to proudly quote them in your avatar.
i wouldnt mind a run on those rollers tbh.i have no idea what the 'real' output of mine is tbh 4 rollers 4 very different figures
that's why your best sticking to one to monitor gains. .
182
I'm not going to spend too long debating it with you, but you've come on a thread and questioned the validity of a rolling road (which is widely known for independence and accuracy) and then when questioned on your experience of said rolling road you make some 'trolly' statement without actually answering the questions. I'd say that's trolling, or a poor version of it anyway
Oh, and there is some rich irony in you stating RR figures are a load of chuff when you seem to proudly quote them in your avatar.
i wouldnt waste too long either.
Once again in true cs style, say or question something it gets folks backs up.
Yehh im proud that my car made 192bhp (over reading rollers)
FFS i only said put it on another set of rollers lol.
don't think you need any with these results mate. What power did yours do
Impressive results. Well done guys
Not that I am aware of, I am not saying that because of the results Mike has got here it proves he is the worlds best tuner for all cars, I am just saying it proves if you have an RS2 car and want it setup to the best it can be, then he is the best place to go.
Could Paul match it if he spent long enough trying? Yes I am sure he could, but if you as the customer want him to dedicate a week or two to doing it on your car its going to cost a fortune, where as Mike has now done the development bit by bit on the dozens of RS2 cars he has done and he's now arrived at what I think is probably getting very close to the optimum possible setup for this spec.
Ktec tried to map one and couldnt even get it to match the standard inlet at which point they just gave up and told the customer to remove it.
Its upto you if you think they did that because they are so useless they are incapable of getting it to work, or if they are just so dishonest they would tell a customer that something doesnt work just because its not their product so they would sooner the customer sold it on and spent the money again with them, or if they were just too lazy to really try?
Either way, sod ever taking your car to them IMHO, but thats because Im not a fan of people who are at least one of useless, lazy, dishonest!
Only James sells them, Mike is James's preferred mapper these days, in the early days it was RS Tuning, but other than the fact that obviously a referral gets Mike a mapping job, there is nothing in it at all for him if James sells one or not.
I believe the total is under 2000 quid all in, fitted and mapped using all new parts. (might be bit more if you go for uprated engine mounts too which they recomend) and if you do the basic DIY fitment yourself its a couple hundred cheaper than that.
I personally am not aware of any other way of getting these results for that matter money on a like for like basis (ie all new parts and all labour and mapping included).
Obviously if it was my own car I could buy a secondhand set of bodies for 1000 quid with Ecu if I wait and I could buy a set of cams for a few hundred quid, and then I could fit it and map it myself mainly on the road with just a couple of hours roller rental required, and even including new belts etc I would just about get under 2000 quid, but thats not really comparable as for a start its secondhand bits and me doing the labour and mapping, and to finish it means loss of cruise control, loss of speed limiter, loss of aircon etc.
Then it makes it harder (but not impossible) to get through an MOT and the economy will end up slightly worse as well.
And its less easily reversible in that the loom is going to end up chopped about
Discussion is good mate.
So if you were someone who fits the profile of a tpyical RS2 customer which is:
Wants to keep all the toys
Road use so wants good spread of power
Budget of 2K all in including any work like fitting and mapping
Would like to be able to get a good portion of their money back when it comes to sell it on
What would you recommend as an alternative for that sort of customer out of interest Jon as you have been around these cars a long time now?
Personally I genuinely cant think of anything else that really competes, I can think of ways of making more power, but they all involve losing something that you dont lose with the RS2.
Best product ever for a clio? No of course not, but it is a product that gives a reasonable gain with NO downside that I am aware of, and in that respect its up there with a quaiffe diff or set of uprated cams as being in a VERY small set of things I can say that about! And the difference here is that its an easy DIY fit and neither of those items are IMHO.
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172, Tiguan
Oh I agree, it has it's benefits, that's undoubtable. The downsides are the very things you've just mentioned, there is only one guy in the entire country that can get the best out of these for 'reasonable' outlay.
Great, and so he should, because it's 'his' product (sort of). It's not up to Paul or anyone to do that. If Paul was flogging it then i'd expect him to have that knowledge. I know that slightly misses your point, but it needed to be said!
What would I do? I could spend £1k on secondhand jenveys with an Omex and then £300 on mapping. I could potentially have similar (or the same) power for £1300. I'd argue that if you could fit an RS2 then you're most of the way to fitting some bodies (more so if you end up with a gen90). Granted you'd lose a few creature comforts, but quite a few places could map a standalone ecu.
Alternatively you've got Andy and his turbo conversions. All new stuff, not a great deal of extra outlay and at least 30bhp more. Given the choice to pay out again I know what I'd choose, but then everyone chooses what suits them best at the end of the day.
The sour note for me here is the massive amount of advertising space these guys get on here when neither pays to trade. Again a personal gripe, but others who do pay for the privilege to sell on here also offer alternative solutions. It's a grey area i hate and I know it winds many up not just me.
Great, and so he should, because it's 'his' product (sort of). It's not up to Paul or anyone to do that. If Paul was flogging it then i'd expect him to have that knowledge. I know that slightly misses your point, but it needed to be said!
What would I do? I could spend £1k on secondhand jenveys with an Omex and then £300 on mapping. I could potentially have similar (or the same) power for £1300. I'd argue that if you could fit an RS2 then you're most of the way to fitting some bodies (more so if you end up with a gen90). Granted you'd lose a few creature comforts, but quite a few places could map a standalone ecu.
Alternatively you've got Andy and his turbo conversions. All new stuff, not a great deal of extra outlay and at least 30bhp more. Given the choice to pay out again I know what I'd choose, but then everyone chooses what suits them best at the end of the day.
The sour note for me here is the massive amount of advertising space these guys get on here when neither pays to trade. Again a personal gripe, but others who do pay for the privilege to sell on here also offer alternative solutions. It's a grey area i hate and I know it winds many up not just me.
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Agreed, the moment you fit bodies you are away from needing a clio ECU specific tuner and can go, and can take the car anywhere reputable for a decent map.
Same would be true of the RS2 if on standalone though of course, like the russian guy with 230+bhp from one.
Turbo means marginally less economy, and arguably compared to just a standard engine and RS2 it realistically means increased on going maintenance costs, but the upside is a much much bigger gain in torque and quite a bit more power too, without a doubt in terms of "bang for your buck" performance wise turbos are the way to go.
I'd not say either of those options were quite the same thing though in terms of the loss of creature comforts etc, if its a pure trackday car then both make IMHO more sense than an RS2 to me personally, but if you mainly sit in traffic stop-starting and sat on cruise on the motorway etc, and therefore you just want a bit more power with nothing lost then thats when the RS2 comes into its own.
My opinion is that bodies make a clio into a great trackday car, but an RS2 makes it the car it SHOULD have been from renault in the first place.
Turbos are epic, but it does tend to end up more expensive in the long run, not least cause the power gains are addictive, where as the RS2 is generally used as a "fit and forget" mod where it makes your engine a bit better and then you leave it at that and dont do further mods, if you want to "develop" the car over time, then a turbo makes more sense for that I think, or even bodies although ultimately they are quite limited in power output for a daily car.
Sorry hadnt seen this edit
I believe that the reason Mike doesnt advertise is that the trade section was closed off to new users, and he figures if he isnt allowed to advertise to new users there isnt a lot of point as most existing users already know him, Im sure that is what he said when I asked him about it when I first noticed he wasnt a trader.
But I suspect thats an entirely different topic, lol, and if you have done the maths and worked out that you make more money by forcing people to pay to be a user before they can see the traders section than you make from losing a trader or two who wants to be able to advertise to all not to paid members then obviously thats what is best for your own business plan
I believe that the reason Mike doesnt advertise is that the trade section was closed off to new users, and he figures if he isnt allowed to advertise to new users there isnt a lot of point as most existing users already know him, Im sure that is what he said when I asked him about it when I first noticed he wasnt a trader.
But I suspect thats an entirely different topic, lol, and if you have done the maths and worked out that you make more money by forcing people to pay to be a user before they can see the traders section than you make from losing a trader or two who wants to be able to advertise to all not to paid members then obviously thats what is best for your own business plan
CS has always seemed to me like its a club run in a very professional and business like manner so it seems the most appropriate term.
Maximising revenue means more money to put on events etc, so is in the clubs interest.
So I assume its because of that which you have stopped unpaid members from seeing the trade section?
When the trade sections were open it was good value advertising I reckon as this site does so well in google etc that as a trader I'd want to know that my section could be seen by everyone, even not logged in users.
Certainly the bigger ones all do need that income IME yes
I just thought it was really interesting to see what the standard car is capable of with such minor mods so I thought others might do as well, that was my reason for psoting, I didnt intend it to come across as an advert, and Im sure Mike would be unhappy if he thought I felt he needed charity in the form of free adverts in the first place TBH, so if it has come across that way then apologies to both you and him.
what is a Rs2 inlet then? iv read about this a lot on here.
Have a search.
thanks
One of these mate:
Its a better flowing direct replacement for the standard inlet made from carbon figure, using the original loom and ecu and throttle body etc.
thanks chip. i was searching but couldnt find an actual pic.
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
That coat suits you chip
Tim.
ClioSport Club Member
Must be an old pic, when you had some
Lol, look at the speed blur from her moving the wrench so quickly, im far more leisurely paced in my old age.
Slow and steady wins the race.
ill let you run that suggestion by her lol
Rs2'd clio 182
I've got a rs2 182 fitted it myself and had it mapped by Paul at rs tuning and only got 186 hp Am wanting some more hp and was thinking of fitting 197 cams but since decided not to. So who dose this retiming and is it available to buy
Am wanting some more hp and was thinking of fitting 197 cams but since decided not to. So who dose this retiming and is it available to buyOnly Mike knows the retiming for the standard cams as far as I know.
I've got a rs2 182 fitted it myself and had it mapped by Paul at rs tuning and only got 186 hp
These engines do vary a lot, on your car that might be getting close to the maximum it will do, from what Ive seen the retiming only gives a few bhp increase and perhaps half a dozen lbft, its really not a huge gain. So if you have already paid for mapping its probably not worth it now.
Ive just been mapping one today with Dan from SJM, 182 with Rs2 with 438 cams, and I can see from the (lack of) injector duration that it requires to get to the correct AFRs that its only going to be a 180s car despite having the cams as well as the RS2, Ive seen more fuel needed on standard cams with the RS2 on other engines. So this one is just not a very good engine, was only low 160s as standard I bet, they vary more than any other engine I am familiar with, when I first started getting into these cars I was gobsmacked to see how much the F4R can vary from one car to another even when the cam timing is definately the same on both and they are both mapped to same standard etc.
Also dont get too obsessed on the peak figures, the 197 cams will normally add best part of 10bhp at the top of the rev range based on the few Ive mapped with 172/197 cams before and after, but they take away about half a dozen lbft for almost the entire rev range until just under 7Krpm where it levels off and then over that the 197 are better, so literally the only place they are faster is over 7K, so unless you take it to about 7800 every gear change, you wont be any quicker with the 197 as you will have lost for as much of the rev range you are using as you have gained for as the revs drop a couple of K when you change gear anyway.
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MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
I've got a rs2 182 fitted it myself and had it mapped by Paul at rs tuning and only got 186 hp
As Chip said above these engines vary so much and mileage is really not a good indicator of condition either (I've seen ring seal issues on sub 60k cars yet my 164k unit is still going strong). If you're really serious about spending money on that engine to extract more power I'd suggest you start by first having the basic mechanical condition assessed (Compression, Valve seal, timing, etc) as you may just be flogging a dead horse and end up £2k lighter and another 10hp up!
