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Should a rebuilt F4R engine (RS200) eating oil after run-in?



Tony_HH

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio RS200 FF
I don't understand how, from the itemised bill - that it's missing an oil pump, water pump and more that you'd expect to be on there, nor does it add up that it's £1620 more than a rebuilt lump from Engine Dynamics.

If it's chugging 1L of oil post rebuild in just 1200 miles, I'd be going back and insisting they fund a proper rebuild elsewhere.
No freshly built engine should be using that much oil. Ever.

For what you paid, I'd be kicking off.
That’s not the total paid, spent another grand for parts I bought
 

Filters

Wales - South
ClioSport Area Rep
That’s not the total paid, spent another grand for parts I bought
If it's set you back £3800 all in my dude, a rebuild from ED is £2182 for a standard engine refresh - £2500 for a "level 1" build - £3200 for a "level 2" build.

So I'd be marching back and demanding answers as things aren't adding up.

Did you buy them the oil pump and water pump?
 

Tony_HH

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio RS200 FF
If it's set you back £3800 all in my dude, a rebuild from ED is £2182 for a standard engine refresh - £2500 for a "level 1" build - £3200 for a "level 2" build.

So I'd be marching back and demanding answers as things aren't adding up.

Did you buy them the oil pump and water pump?
Aren't those supposed to be replaced along with the belts?
 

Daz...

ClioSport Club Member
  Inferno 182 Cup
Aren't those supposed to be replaced along with the belts?
Oil pump will definitely not be on their list of things to do with the belts.

Water pump is optional.

I would say I’m amazed they haven’t recommended having both replaced on a used engine, but it doesn’t surprise me knowing who it is.
 

Filters

Wales - South
ClioSport Area Rep
Aren't those supposed to be replaced along with the belts?

You'd hope so considering they're pretty vital parts. However they're not part of the belt kit hence my suspicions that they've not been replaced as they're not on the itemised bill. You wouldn't want old units going in to a fresh build.


They're replaced on ED's basic build/refresh.
 

Tony_HH

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio RS200 FF
Last week oil level after filling 1.5L:
IMG_5339.jpg


Today's level after doing around 320miles, sensor shows half is gone
IMG_5376.jpg
 

mumpy

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio II RS 172
Mate you need to take some action, you have gotten a lot of advise on this thread so you know what to do. Your money after all but it sucks to be left hanging like this.

My own experience, I did some engine work with a specialist, I noticed some oil leaking some weeks later. I brought the car in and they remedied the issue, no questions asked all for free. And that was rear main crank seal leaking so quite a bit of work. They even changed power steering fluid that I asked for free. Courtesy car all for free.

The reason for the leak was a genuine mistake in the first place which they owned up to. They were also booked for months ahead and got to see me immediately.
 

Tony_HH

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio RS200 FF
Mate you need to take some action, you have gotten a lot of advise on this thread so you know what to do. Your money after all but it sucks to be left hanging like this.

My own experience, I did some engine work with a specialist, I noticed some oil leaking some weeks later. I brought the car in and they remedied the issue, no questions asked all for free. And that was rear main crank seal leaking so quite a bit of work. They even changed power steering fluid that I asked for free.
I am told the parts are still in run-in process and normal for that oil consumption. This is my first manual car and spending grand after grand, it is absolutely disappointing
 

mumpy

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio II RS 172
I am told the parts are still in run-in process and normal for that oil consumption. This is my first manual car and spending grand after grand, it is absolutely disappointing
Yeah I understand but it is not normal obviously. Hope you manage to resolve the issue mate
 

Bleu

ClioSport Club Member
Surely they should. Tbh, work a 9 to 5 job and 4-hour round trip to the garage, it’s really frustrating
Call him up and get them to collect it and sort it. Although if you don’t trust them then get an agreement in writing stating that they’ll pay the expenses for inspection and rectification including collection of the car.
 

R3k1355

ClioSport Club Member
I'm struggling to understand the concept of the parts 'using oil'. It's not something that really exists.
While there is a run in period for piston (compression) rings, I'm pretty sure there isn't the same run in time for oil control rings.

Either way, you've done enough miles to consider the engine run in at this point. The engine is as ran in as it's going to get.
 

Filters

Wales - South
ClioSport Area Rep
I am told the parts are still in run-in process and normal for that oil consumption. This is my first manual car and spending grand after grand, it is absolutely disappointing

I'm telling you, that's bullshit sorry buddy. Everyone else is too. 🙏 with the greatest of respect, it's not right.

If it's using THAT much oil running in, how much oil is it going to use in 1200 miles once it's run in?
My bet would be about 5 litres when it inevitably goes bang.

Having bounced f4R and m4m engines off the limiter for hours at a time in endurance races - that much oil consumption on a fresh engine would be of grave concern. So don't accept their BS 👍
 

SharpyClio

ClioSport Club Member
I'm telling you, that's bullshit sorry buddy. Everyone else is too. 🙏 with the greatest of respect, it's not right.

If it's using THAT much oil running in, how much oil is it going to use in 1200 miles once it's run in?
My bet would be about 5 litres when it inevitably goes bang.

Having bounced f4R and m4m engines off the limiter for hours at a time in endurance races - that much oil consumption on a fresh engine would be of grave concern. So don't accept their BS 👍
Looking at the amount its going through id be lucky to get through a track day without filling it up!

Also made me think about a friend who has a 197, that thing smokes pretty badly but he still doesn't use that much oil driving to track, hammering it around all day and then driving home. (He adds a dribble at lunch just because, but I don't think he actually has to).

I have seen it where the rings have all been aligned so basically have a big gap and oil just pi$$es through, it could be that? Still not right and needs sorting.
 

Tony_HH

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio RS200 FF
Call him up and get them to collect it and sort it. Although if you don’t trust them then get an agreement in writing stating that they’ll pay the expenses for inspection and rectification including collection of the car.
I am so sure the garage will not agree with that at some point
 

Tony_HH

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio RS200 FF
I'm telling you, that's bullshit sorry buddy. Everyone else is too. 🙏 with the greatest of respect, it's not right.

If it's using THAT much oil running in, how much oil is it going to use in 1200 miles once it's run in?
My bet would be about 5 litres when it inevitably goes bang.

Having bounced f4R and m4m engines off the limiter for hours at a time in endurance races - that much oil consumption on a fresh engine would be of grave concern. So don't accept their BS 👍
Although engine oil is not that expensive but I am not happy to fill up the car every 2 weeks or even more frequently. One of my mate with a 182 test drove my car 2 weeks before, he mentioned the engine is so lumpy and take ages to go up revs with full throttle.
 

Bleu

ClioSport Club Member
I am so sure the garage will not agree with that at some point
They’d definitely collect it and have a look if you asked. The other proposal may seem a stretch but I don’t think it’s unreasonable. You’ve spent a lot with them and have to be firm in situations like these.
 

mumpy

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio II RS 172
Although engine oil is not that expensive but I am not happy to fill up the car every 2 weeks or even more frequently. One of my mate with a 182 test drove my car 2 weeks before, he mentioned the engine is so lumpy and take ages to go up revs with full throttle.
Don’t use the car at all if possible until you fix it.
 

leeds2592

ClioSport Club Member
  Bean 182 + E70 X5
Although engine oil is not that expensive but I am not happy to fill up the car every 2 weeks or even more frequently. One of my mate with a 182 test drove my car 2 weeks before, he mentioned the engine is so lumpy and take ages to go up revs with full throttle.
Mate, you’ve spent a s**t load for something that isn’t right. You shouldn’t have to be filling up oil every few weeks.

They need to rectify it or you take further action.

I feel they’re trying to palm you off in the hope you just accept it
 

Tony_HH

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio RS200 FF
Mate, you’ve spent a s**t load for something that isn’t right. You shouldn’t have to be filling up oil every few weeks.

They need to rectify it or you take further action.

I feel they’re trying to palm you off in the hope you just accept it
At the first point when my old engine was dead, made calls to specialists with really good reputation but most of them had a long lead time which I don't want my car sat ouside for a few months to wait for a rebuild. Ended up choosing the one I am using now with disappointment afte disappointment
 

Advikaz

ClioSport Club Member
Just want to know how long does a engine rebuild warranty last? Never been told / written on invoice


Often you don’t get one……

But a good engine builder will honour it within certain parameters.

Can someone please note who built this so others can avoid if they’re that bad.

Dm is fine
 

NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
I am told the parts are still in run-in process and normal for that oil consumption. This is my first manual car and spending grand after grand, it is absolutely disappointing
Just to put that into some sort of context for you mate, here’s how my engine that I built spent its life.

Fully rebuilt using new pistons, rings and bearings.
Everything measured to check for wear - all within manufacturers spec.

After that it went on the rollers at efi for around 20-30 mins of ‘running in’. Dropped out the mineral oil and filled with the proper oil. After that it was mapped all the way up to the 8000rpm limit. It made the numbers, but more importantly, it never used a drop of oil.

So just to reiterate, IT NEVER USED A DROP OF OIL.

What you’re suffering from isn’t parts that are still in the ‘running in’ phase, it’s incompetence I’m afraid.

The f4r engine in oil consumption terms, is actually a very good motor. They use minimal, if any.
 

helpimonfire

ClioSport Club Member
  '06 197
Just to add to this, my old engine in my 197 never used oil at all but it started making noises I didn't like so I chucked another engine in that supposedly was fine and ran brilliantly. Which to be fair, it made good power and feels strong, however it'll happily use a litre per trackday. But if I was to run it about for a week or 2 it won't use much, if any.

I echo the sentiments in here, the owner of the place you're referring to should take it back, he needs to salvage his reputation that's currently going down the pan...
 


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