I knew this, when I done my car I just judged each section rather than taping it up though as I thought this was a better method than finishing one part removing tape and then starting on the new bit with a heavier cut than the part you just finished etc. I understand that's not how you done it but surely some of these 50/50 have had a finish polish used and then the move onto the part right next to it with a cutting polish again which imo is a ballache due to changing pads all the time and also could effect the part they had just finished.
ClioSport.net
Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.
The Art of Detail: SL Restoration...
- Thread starter Gally
- Start date
I knew this, when I done my car I just judged each section rather than taping it up though as I thought this was a better method than finishing one part removing tape and then starting on the new bit with a heavier cut than the part you just finished etc. I understand that's not how you done it but surely some of these 50/50 have had a finish polish used and then the move onto the part right next to it with a cutting polish again which imo is a ballache due to changing pads all the time and also could effect the part they had just finished.
I will try and find a better example picture to demonstrate the sort of thing I am on about. As clearly you dont understand the sort of 50:50 image I mean!
Edit, this sort of thing:
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13933&d=1281384657
If you think that you are doing so accurately, then surely a hobby about the pointless pursuit of unnecessary detail isnt for you? lol
Last edited:
Golf GT & A4 Avant
So the Maseratti, what an awesome car. Bet the owner was very pleased to be picking that up
Without a line, there is no way you won't have gone over the same area or not missed areas. So your point about taking off more CC than necessary, or missing areas is actually what you've just described you did to your own car? Not arguing here, but you have just contradicted yourself
Define detail. To the eye, my cars/clients' cars were in better condition than when they left the factory line.
The use of a microscope is, in my eyes (excuse the punn), unnecessary for the paint surface of a car.
Chip the fact you don't understand the basic concept of polishing kind of negates your argument. You don't know about 2 step correction or 3 step polishing processes or even concentrated correction work.
Paint isn't even. From 2cm to another 2 there could be 3 microns of a difference from factory or a spray gun.
Paint isn't even. From 2cm to another 2 there could be 3 microns of a difference from factory or a spray gun.
People detail for several reasons I would think, I should imagine these include:
To make their car look better
To take pictures they can w*nk over online with others
To earn money improving the look of a company car
To just truely know to themselves its the best it can possibly be.
Im sure it is.
Wouldnt ever bother myself, but then im not some obsessive detailing freak so my question wasnt aimed at the likes of me as I wouldnt be taking pictures to show someone I had cleaned my car just like I wouldnt when I clean the toilet or clean the drive etc, its just cleaning, a chore not a pleasure, just something that sometimes is required, and it really doesnt interest me personally a huge amount even if its really thorough cleaning, lol.
Actually gally, im quite bright and I have a pretty good background of physics and chemistry and have a mrs who likes to detail things, so I understand the basic concept of not polishing all as just one step, although I dont know the detailing world approved terms for everything I bet I have a far better understanding of the concepts that you seem to be crediting me with! Much like when I sand the paint on a car I start with a low number paper and work up to a higher number fine paper, that doesnt actually change the fact even if you are doing a picture of halfway through a stage, then finishing that stage then doing the next one (and hence going over it again), that you still havent done that stage as evenly as you could of if you werent going for dramatic pictures.
And I am VERY aware that paint isnt even, thats the whole point of people running around with paint gauges trying to make it more even, which is the sort of thing that I am saying taking a dramatic 50:50 picture is counter productive for in the first place!
Without a line, there is no way you won't have gone over the same area or not missed areas. So your point about taking off more CC than necessary, or missing areas is actually what you've just described you did to your own car? Not arguing here, but you have just contradicted yourself
Oh yes I agree but I only done it with one grade of polish until I finished the whole panel and then moved onto the next grade, what I am saying is they go through the stages of cut and then have to start again right next to it with a compounding polish again.
I know exactly what you are saying and I guess there is no perfect way of doing it and that taping it up is the best method although I'd always say finish a whole panel in one compound before moving onto the next stage of cut. Hope that makes sense haha.
Btw I am absolutely crap and it took me a whole day of polishing to get a good finish and I can guarantee I removed more cc than necessary in some areas so I'm not trying to say I'm good at it or anything
.
Last edited:
Exactly that, like the link I showed, they have gone right through every stage from completely faded to full restored, and got a very dramatic picture, but they now have to go and attack the bit 2mm (or less in fact) away from that finished article with a rotary polisher again and a starting compound!
Chip. The art of detailing/polishing/correction isn't to make lacquer equally flat.
Hence my comment about you misunderstanding what "detailing" is about.
On a microscopic level paint is in itself, peaks and troughs.
Paint readings are taken for clearcoat removal not to get each section the same number.
Hence my comment about you misunderstanding what "detailing" is about.
On a microscopic level paint is in itself, peaks and troughs.
Paint readings are taken for clearcoat removal not to get each section the same number.
Golf GT & A4 Avant
Form what I've seen of the 'pro's' correcting, the tape is for one stage of the correction. when all that panel has been done with said compound, the tape is generally removed and the whole panel started again with a lower cut. Therefore the line is removed.
In reference to the tape position, it was normally placed a few mm past the corrected line, so that tiny line will get additional compounding but as it is so small and right at the edge of the working area, and the edge of the pad the addition CC removed is extremely minimal.
I'm not 100% sure if this is what you were getting at but hope it clears it up a little.
In reference to the tape position, it was normally placed a few mm past the corrected line, so that tiny line will get additional compounding but as it is so small and right at the edge of the working area, and the edge of the pad the addition CC removed is extremely minimal.
I'm not 100% sure if this is what you were getting at but hope it clears it up a little.
When you are dealing with a curved surface you are unlikely to want a flat finish, but likewise you are unlikely to want a dirty great ridge running through your paint.
I know, like I said I have looked at paint on a way below microscopic level (ie electron microscopic) and that is what I am saying, if people are as obsessive as they make out, why are they introducing straight edges halfway across a panel when they do one of those full "before and after" 50:50 shots?
Not what im on about at all, Im on about the very dramatic 50/50 jobs where people do the whole process and show a picture of it.
I kept going back through the thread looking for this link. Now I presume it's the photo?
First off, can't see the link to the detailing thread, so please post it up (presuming you've read through it and they've stated it is several grades of polish, thus proving your point).
However, it's Honda paint, which is usually very soft... so I would hazard a guess that it was a one stage correction/enhancement, in which case; same pad, same polish, same machine, over one day. So your points about difference and creating an optically relevant ridge don't apply (again, unless you refer to microscopic peaks).
Not what im on about at all, Im on about the very dramatic 50/50 jobs where people do the whole process and show a picture of it.
Again, post the thread, not just the photo. This shows nothing. And if there is no description, you cannot guess that this was not just a one stage product. A lot of polishes these days break down from large particles (high on the cut scale) to small particles (high on the "finishing"/burnishing scale), so again, to repeat, one polish, pad, machine combo.
But how on earth will companies like Heavenly Detail be able to charge £5k plus for a detail, without such dramatic photos
Of course it's for internet points. But not cool points. Wow points. So Mr Lambo will happily spend ££££ on a detail. Shock and awe photos work in advertising. That's something you can't disagree with fella.
But how on earth will companies like Heavenly Detail be able to charge £5k plus for a detail, without such dramatic photos
Of course it's for internet points. But not cool points. Wow points. So Mr Lambo will happily spend ££££ on a detail. Shock and awe photos work in advertising. That's something you can't disagree with fella.
I agree mate, Im just surprised that when people post these sort of pictures they dont shot down for adversely effecting the actual quality of the end result in order to get a picture.
It just seems that when your hobby is supposedly about pursuit of perfection, that posting pictures proving you have compromised is counter productive, but I dont doubt it still sells services to numpties anyway, lol
Surely you have aims with your turbo Clio, that are not perfect but you'd aim as high as poss? But in the eyes of BackDraft Motorsport, your hobby/efforts are poor in comparison, so you might as well give up your hobby? I jest of course, but it is the same process of discussion.
I think the term that you're missing is "with in reason". Nothing is perfect. But the search for perfection is what most detailers pride themselves on.
And with that, I leave you (it's the weekend and I deperately need a beer - I'm not perfect, but... )
I think the term that you're missing is "with in reason". Nothing is perfect. But the search for perfection is what most detailers pride themselves on.
And with that, I leave you (it's the weekend and I deperately need a beer - I'm not perfect, but...
)Surely you have aims with your turbo Clio, that are not perfect but you'd aim as high as poss? But in the eyes of BackDraft Motorsport, your hobby/efforts are poor in comparison, so you might as well give up your hobby? I jest of course, but it is the same process of discussion.
I think the term that you're missing is "with in reason". Nothing is perfect. But the search for perfection is what most detailers pride themselves on.
And with that, I leave you (it's the weekend and I deperately need a beer - I'm not perfect, but...
Im never at any point with my cars compromised with what I do with them in order to score points on a forum with pictures etc, I do them to the best of my ability/funds/time constraints (the last one being my major factor TBH with working away from home so much) so I dont think its a good analogy in my case TBH mate.
Honda & VW
Well I must say that is some serious detail there, thoroughly enjoyed the full write up.
however am growing tired of Chips trolling.
however am growing tired of Chips trolling.
Wasnt trolling :S
Genuinely interested to hear the detailers opinions on the way that some people seem to sacrifice the task in hand just for photos, thats not trolling.
Williams 2
There's a line between detail and time wasting IMO.
Spending 3 hours cutting out the double sided adhesive is just a waste of time. This is all IMO of course. The customer was spending the money so happy days for the detailer.
Both bodyshops I know will remove badges wherever possible, and refit them with a couple of drops of a 3M adhesive made for the task. Takes 2 minutes and looks 100%.
If he understood the "art" he wouldn't be asking the questions.
I'm guessing he's frustrated because he isn't king dong at a subject.
Williams 2
But how on earth will companies like Heavenly Detail be able to charge £5k plus for a detail, without such dramatic photos
Of course it's for internet points. But not cool points. Wow points. So Mr Lambo will happily spend ££££ on a detail. Shock and awe photos work in advertising. That's something you can't disagree with fella.
5k!!! Now I know why the guy spent 3 hours putting double sided adhesive on a badge!
i'm in the wrong career...
I ask questions to learn about things.
I answer a lot of questions on here to help others so seems fair play for me to task some too once in a while.
In this case what im trying to learn about is the pschology of the whole internet detailing thing, which has only really sprung up in the last 10 years or so really, Ive been into cars for that so have known people cleaning cars well for a lot longer than that, but stuff like these 50/50 images I am asking about, are a relatively new arrival which is only there for internet kudos etc, so I find it interesting to see what peoples opinions on them is.
Why would I be frustrated? There are only a very limited number of subjects I know a lot about, sure a few of them are common themes on here so I guess thats why it might seem to you I am only interested in stuff I know a lot about but actually the opposite is true, I love learning about new things and especially anything to do with the psychology of peoples motivations when it comes to car related hobbies. What sort of person would work in motoring journalism and not be interested in exactly what makes the car mag buying public tick for example? lol
Hardly!
Ive no interest in that, the closest I get to detailing is a snow foam and a quick run round with a d/a and even that is rare, lol.
Agreed, although I cant help but think if people enjoy the results too much and only have their own car to practice on we could be seeing a lot of "scene" bonnets covered in rust soon on detailing websites, lol.
The more you speak the more you prove you don't know enough about detailing to make comments like fact.
50/50s are a new thing? They've been on DW since the site was built up.
The simple fact is you thought/think paint correction was/is about getting paint to the same level. That's a basic misunderstanding of the whole subject and totally annihilates your 50/50 point.
You know I reply to umpteen pm's per week about detailing, people who have no clue about the whole industry and they're just trying to learn some things. They're humble and happy to learn little things.
You're not really interested in learning and if you are you're going about it with a sledgehammer mate. Again.
50/50s are a new thing? They've been on DW since the site was built up.
The simple fact is you thought/think paint correction was/is about getting paint to the same level. That's a basic misunderstanding of the whole subject and totally annihilates your 50/50 point.
You know I reply to umpteen pm's per week about detailing, people who have no clue about the whole industry and they're just trying to learn some things. They're humble and happy to learn little things.
You're not really interested in learning and if you are you're going about it with a sledgehammer mate. Again.
Yes 50/50 pictures and forums about detailing are a pretty new thing in the uk car scene. Like I said, 10 years ago even no one was really doing that. Cars still got cleaned very well at shows 20 years ago but on people's picture boards they had by their cars there was never any 50/50 stuff that I recall. If it happened it was very minority!
i don't know where you got this idea about flatness from, I don't view that as the b all and end all at all but a deliberate straight edge still seems counter productive.
I just asked a perfectly reasonable question. Nothing more.
JD has done a reasonable job of answering it now anyway tbh in terms of that yes it's a compromise but in his view a small one. Kind of what I expected to hear tbh.
i don't know where you got this idea about flatness from, I don't view that as the b all and end all at all but a deliberate straight edge still seems counter productive.
I just asked a perfectly reasonable question. Nothing more.
JD has done a reasonable job of answering it now anyway tbh in terms of that yes it's a compromise but in his view a small one. Kind of what I expected to hear tbh.
Golf GT & A4 Avant
If you're not worried about the over polishing, removing too much clear coat of one section, as said in my post which you say it is not, i I miss where this is going to affect the final finish. Therefore your gripe is with them clearly showing what the can acheive, a promotion of what they are capable of?
I fail to see the problem. Doesn't affect the paint, doesn't take any longer to correct the car
I also think you miss the point about internet points. It's sales and marketing, as going to all that effort will win him more work.
As for the badges, its in he detail. Drops of adhesive isnt as good as a factory finish. I'm sure 3hours is an exaggeration, but again it's in the detail, shows a potential client he is going to go that extra mile for you and over care about your car.
Do you remember the white astra vxr essay on new car detail. I thought he made himself look like a tool, but knew it was all for the marketing and publicity
I fail to see the problem. Doesn't affect the paint, doesn't take any longer to correct the car
I also think you miss the point about internet points. It's sales and marketing, as going to all that effort will win him more work.
As for the badges, its in he detail. Drops of adhesive isnt as good as a factory finish. I'm sure 3hours is an exaggeration, but again it's in the detail, shows a potential client he is going to go that extra mile for you and over care about your car.
Do you remember the white astra vxr essay on new car detail. I thought he made himself look like a tool, but knew it was all for the marketing and publicity
Clart
ClioSport Club Member
its getting boring now....
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
I'm pretty clueless when it comes to detailing and paint correction/restoration at any level, but have always thought that putting a hard edged straight line anywhere on a panel during the process (at whatever stage) would ultimately leave some form of compromise in the pursuit of perfection.
Would seem from this thread that I'm both right and wrong.
Am I alone in finding the product placement and badly 'staged' action shots cringeworthy in the extreme?
Would seem from this thread that I'm both right and wrong.
Am I alone in finding the product placement and badly 'staged' action shots cringeworthy in the extreme?
MarkCup
ClioSport Club Member
Was this there one where there was almost coronary failure following discovery of some slight overspray beneath the rear bench or something like that?
