ClioSport.net

Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.

The everlasting ph1 ITB Build **GREEN-BUILD STARTS AT PAGE 100**



But even then. When you look at the lower barr joint beneath the B-pillar. How do you get acces to that? I mean, the cage doesn't go up anymore, it doesn't move from left to right, nor does it go forward. Or can you wiggle it about just enough to get the torch in between?
Cage looks really good though.
 
  172 Cup
All done!

39614574411_6d5c0aaef1.jpg


39584944622_4367e134f3.jpg


38718133615_c7f6435c3d.jpg


38718140375_e0cdaa059b.jpg


38906207404_a503ee011b.jpg


25743321388_1262685a9a.jpg


38718149735_4f9577db16.jpg


25743310868_bc3bbba3d4.jpg


:up:
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Noice, though I may have added the A-pillar reinforcement tubes myself. Looks lovely though.

There are a lot of things that could of been added but i think this is a good middle ground between strength/safety and weight.

I wish It made sense to just clearcoat the cage rather than paint it, ha

All in all though, very happy and the car is already in the bodyshop. I now need to get the fibreglass panels sorted asap.
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
No harness bars for the cage?

The lateral rear strut bar is high enough to have a decent angle on the shoulder straps, the angle is 12deg.. (MSA / FIA allow anything between 10 and 45).

The diagonals are also oriented such that the harness bars would be really short and off to one side, so the straps would be skewed if added.
 

JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
The lateral rear strut bar is high enough to have a decent angle on the shoulder straps, the angle is 12deg.. (MSA / FIA allow anything between 10 and 45).

The diagonals are also oriented such that the harness bars would be really short and off to one side, so the straps would be skewed if added.

Ahh right, i assumed the bar going to the struts would be used for harnesses after i'd posted.

Be nice to see some gussets on the cross/diagonal bars :wink:
 

mintno1

ClioSport Club Member
  Ph1 172 / Mk1 Valver
Cage looks great, can't wait to see it after the bodyshop :smile: did you make a decision on the colour or do you still have time to decide?
 

Jamie86

ClioSport Club Member
  RS175,595,205gti,172
What cage is it sorry I'm too lazy to scroll back!
As said on FB looks great and lighter the better with cages I say!
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
What cage is it sorry I'm too lazy to scroll back!
As said on FB looks great and lighter the better with cages I say!

The base of it is the Oreca/Sassa (I would say 6 point but it already triangulates to the front susp).
I have then added a dashbar, and changed the location of where the rear triangulates to (use to be the arches and is now the rear susp), + the rear lateral bar between struts, his meant I needed to purchase the lower backstays (from main hoop to rear struts) and the rear lateral bar extra
 
  172 Cup
All additions to the cage mentioned would be nice but it all adds weight.. we're talking +10kg easily for A-pillars and harness bars alone, and that's the kind of weight people go to a lot of trouble to try and remove! If the cage is certified then no reason to add anything more. :up:
 

Jamie86

ClioSport Club Member
  RS175,595,205gti,172
Cool thought iy was Oreca.
They have seemed to be a good fit from what I've seen
Agree with the above unless you go T45 then eat your heart out or intend to go rallying.
The least amount of bars that is still safe gets my vote especially with the added pickups to suspension!
 

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
All additions to the cage mentioned would be nice but it all adds weight.. we're talking +10kg easily for A-pillars and harness bars alone, and that's the kind of weight people go to a lot of trouble to try and remove! If the cage is certified then no reason to add anything more. :up:

Understand the reasoning. My thought was that the MSA are mandating A-pillar reinforcement tubes for new build stage rally cars from 2019 and I can see them extending that to all disciplines (knowing the MSA!) so it future proofs a bit, should it ever become a competition car. That and it looks cool lol.
 
  172 Cup
Understand the reasoning. My thought was that the MSA are mandating A-pillar reinforcement tubes for new build stage rally cars from 2019 and I can see them extending that to all disciplines (knowing the MSA!) so it future proofs a bit, should it ever become a competition car. That and it looks cool lol.

It definitely does look cool!

That is an issue but there's always a clause that it's for new builds and not cages with an existing certification (such as Neil's). Unless MSA are changing tact now and making a whole load of previously certified cars ineligible? I'd be very surprised if that were to happen.. a lot of people would be understandably pissed!

All that being said, I fit any competition car with A pillar reinforcements for that reason because all my cages are effectively new builds.
 
  172 Cup
Cool thought iy was Oreca.
They have seemed to be a good fit from what I've seen
Agree with the above unless you go T45 then eat your heart out or intend to go rallying.
The least amount of bars that is still safe gets my vote especially with the added pickups to suspension!

The problem with T45 is you're still bound to minimum material spec of 50mm x 2mm / 40 x 2mm so you don't save any weight at all - unless you have the money to get a cage homologated!
 

haimsey

ClioSport Club Member
  ph2 172
Cage and interior going to be the same colour? Or are you going for a contrast to show the cage off
 

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
It definitely does look cool!

That is an issue but there's always a clause that it's for new builds and not cages with an existing certification (such as Neil's). Unless MSA are changing tact now and making a whole load of previously certified cars ineligible? I'd be very surprised if that were to happen.. a lot of people would be understandably pissed!

All that being said, I fit any competition car with A pillar reinforcements for that reason because all my cages are effectively new builds.

I can't remember the exact wording in the blue book but I am sure they are making arrangements so that cages with existing FIA homologation can have the new tubes retrofitted. As you say, the new build clause usually protects existing cars but, with the MSA moving cars to the new passport system in the coming years, the wording seems to have been left open enough for them to make people update existing cars. I wouldn't put anything past the MSA lol.
 

haimsey

ClioSport Club Member
  ph2 172
All the interior will be the same colour to minimise glare, It would be nice to "show off the cage" but if I was doing this I would for sure just clear coat it...
Good choice, at the end of the day it’s your choice but I was hoping it’d be all one colour! Looking forward to paintshop pics.
 
  172 Cup
I can't remember the exact wording in the blue book but I am sure they are making arrangements so that cages with existing FIA homologation can have the new tubes retrofitted. As you say, the new build clause usually protects existing cars but, with the MSA moving cars to the new passport system in the coming years, the wording seems to have been left open enough for them to make people update existing cars. I wouldn't put anything past the MSA lol.

Exact wording is "..vehicles first issued with a vehicle passport from 01 Jan 2019.." so it doesn't look like they'll force this on cars that have already got a passport, but you're right in that any pre-certified cage will need to have them installed to obtain a new passport from 2019 onwards.

Interesting that they've ditched the A-pillar angle requirement for having the supports and instead moved to a measurement from the B-pillar support to the upper corner of the A-pillar. Still, I doubt many cars will have this dimension less than 200mm, so again it's going to be pretty much mandatory.
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:
So as seen from the updates kindly uploaded from @CamMoreRon above, the main part of the fabrication on the cage is pretty much sorted here a couple more detailed images, including the harness mounts over the tunnel.

IMG_6893.JPG

IMG_6892.JPG


The car has been moved to the bodyshop for the next stage now and I visited them over the weekend and had a good chat with them about the shell - needless to say the original quote wasn't quite going to cover it so the price has gone up by half again, a little frustrating but I am confident that I will be getting a good job. As part of the discussion we talked colours, I was originally thinking that I would do the interior black to keep glare to a minimum (no matter the exterior colour) however in an attempt to keep the job easier and a little cheaper I have now decided to go one colour throughout as after asking around a fair few people it appears glare isn't that much of an issue - this change in colour though did have a knock on effect meaning I had to change the colour of my brake line order....

The other plus is that the bodyshop have said that I can go down after I get in from work at 7.30pm (inconveniently only over these next 3 weeks) and work on the remaining items needing prep for paint - having better tools and a knowledgable eye over this is reassuring.

So with regards to the paint and the prep here is what needs to happen:

INTERIOR

  • Bigger holes need blanks welding
  • Outer harness mounts need welding
  • Tabs for A&B pillars need welding
  • Extra hole for false floor needs drilling (passenger side)
  • All smaller holes throughout car need blanking/sealing
    (rear wheel well blank, rear seat areas, floor pan areas)
  • Floor mounts need nuts/rivnuts mounting
  • Rear arches need sealing
  • Seam seal bulkhead where cage triangulates through them

Exterior (split into panels and shell)
DOORS
  • Cut handles in doors
  • Cut latches in doors
  • Cut door window recess back and resel
  • Fit hinges (possibly need spreader plate)
  • Fill lock recesses in doors
BONNET
  • Mock up and cut aerocatch holes in bonnet
  • Washer holes in bonnet need welding/sealing (aluminium bonnet)
TAILGATE
  • Drill tailgate mount points
  • Mock up and cut aerocatch holes in tailgate
  • Bond/fit bolts to spoiler/tailgate
ROOF
  • Ariel hole in roof needs welding/sealing
  • Mock up and cut roof scoop holes
SHELL
  • Rust areas on sills and rear arches
  • Seal all underside and arches
  • Seal engine bay
A fair list and one that I am keen to crack on with asap.
However with the above not an option over the weekend I set about finishing trimming back the Lexan windows whilst I still had the doors off the car. I think I previously showed how much needed trimming back (image below) - at least thats less weight again I suppose. ha

IMG_6881.JPG


and both sides trimmed back (typically one went perfectly and the other was a ball-ache).

IMG_6882.JPG

IMG_6894.JPG


Next up was to sort the hinges so I can hang the doors. There are 2 options here, either cut the hinges off your old doors or buy a new set from renault. I sold my old doors and it was very much looking like I would need to purchase new until the last minute when I managed to pick up some cut-off items, perfect. I received them today so with an evening free (originally planned to be spent at the bodyshop) I set about trimming these back to just the hinges.

IMG_6912.JPG


and done.... These will need a piece of threaded bar wedding to them to then mate with a spreader plate and some nuts (to sandwhich the door), pretty please with how they come out.

IMG_6917.JPG


I now really need to get to the bodyshop and get the panels cut and hung on the car.... watch this space.
 

Jamie86

ClioSport Club Member
  RS175,595,205gti,172
Getting there now some good progress.
Do you mind weighing a fully built up door once you have everything on it mirror etc :)
 

scotiamr2t

ClioSport Club Member
  Mazda 2, Ph1 172
Alot of work and hours to be put in before its ready for paint going by that list! Good luck with it all, good to see some real progress being made now!

Should be very light once finished
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Alot of work and hours to be put in before its ready for paint going by that list! Good luck with it all, good to see some real progress being made now! Should be very light once finished

Yeah a fair bit to do, been heading down in the evenings after work and working on the fibreglass panels, the roof scoop is cut, the tailgate hung and the first aerocatch hole cut, back down there tonight and should have the other aerocatch fitted (so thats tailgate done), then move onto the doors... I think end of Jan to have the car back tbh...

Steaming along nicely now! When is paint predicted to be started/finished?

See above mate
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:
To say I have had a manic few weeks is an understatement, working in London then commuting home I wasn't getting in til 7.30 and then trying to get jobs done to keep things progressing was a struggle. As mentioned above there was still a lot to do before paint was applied, but its done and I am out the other side.... and excited.
Progress to this point (from the past 3 weeks) noted below:

Roof scoop hole cut and roof scoop test mounted, I initially went for the multi-hole approach but the hole-saw was a bit s**t got a wriggle on and made a mess so I opened it up to one large hole, no bother. (the aerial hole has now also been welded)
IMG_6919.JPG

IMG_6920.JPG


Next up was the tailgate, this needed the holes for the hinges trimming out to hang it, only once this was done could I then look at marking up and trimming the panels for the aero-catches. All went well, I had to open up the back part of the panel a little more but again, no bother. (no pictures of the finished article as was either to late or I had to get a wriggle on to sort the next panel)

IMG_6921.JPG

IMG_6923.JPG


I then moved onto the bonnet, lining up the bonnet, mounting it and marking the aero-catches for cutting. Using the bodyshop tools was super helpful and made the job very easy. The top holes are easy, but with the shape of the second skin on the underside you have to do a little more work than the top (to allow for the aero-catch sandwich back plate), again no real bother though....

IMG_7027.JPG

IMG_7030.JPG

IMG_7028.JPG

IMG_7029.JPG


and then with the windscreen washers welded over, (by the bodyshop)

IMG_7067.JPG


The bodyshop also cut (holes in the tailgate) and bonded threaded items onto the underside of the CM composites spoiler ready for mounting once painted.

IMG_7075.jpg
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:
Turns out you can only upload 10 images at a time. I will continue.

Next up for me was the doors, I new these were going to take some time so struggled to fit them in. Getting all the parts of them marked, trimmed or cut back went on and on and they were literally the last thing to be painted, but again... all done.
The main area I was concerned about was the handle cutout, its pretty fiddly but having done the first ok the second went a lot smoother...

Marked up
IMG_7081.JPG


Cut back
IMG_7082.JPG


Test fitted
IMG_7083.JPG


I was on a little bit of a confidence streak which was good as the next part was the window aperture trimming. I really felt there was way to much excess in here, I marked up how much I wanted left and trimmed both doors back to 15mm. This should be sufficient to bond the windows to. By doing this it did separate the panels in some areas but this was addressed with Sikaflex and a load of clamps. Had I known the panels would separate I think next time I would probably not of cut the windows back and then mounted them inside but these doors are moulded with the rubbers in them too, so not sure it would of worked.... either way, guess what - no bother, done now.

IMG_7084.JPG


Note: the doors are going to have the lock recesses skimmed over before paint.
Whilst I was piss-ass-ing about with the doors this the bodyshop was finalising prep of the shell for paint. There was a fair bit of work in this, more than the points previously noted (Rust areas on sills and rear arches, Seal all underside and arches, Seal engine bay) but they cracked on and have really done a nice job. Along with this the eagle eyed may have spotted in my previous post the tabs on the cages A and B pillars. I wasn't 100% sure I was happy with how these appeared and the following day I mocked up some gussets that would sit over these. The swaging tools made for me by a mate very early in this project came in super useful again. These were made, dropped off asap and then welded in.

IMG_7035.JPG

IMG_7036.JPG

IMG_7037.JPG


When dropping these off we discussed what I wanted to do with regards to seam sealer and the underside of the car. The painter said it was not the most sensible to leave the seams unsealed as water ingress here would just rot it from the inside out. With strict instructions to keep it light this was applied to promote the longevity of the shell. Also I decided to go for stone chip on the underside of the shell, again this should promote the longevity of the shell.

I visited the following day to a shell in the booth and ready to paint. All holes in the shell welded or sealed, the underside stone chipped and the A pillars gusseted I was very happy with the progress I was now very excited to see it with colour on.

IMG_7061.JPG

IMG_7065.JPG

IMG_7066.JPG


This brings me not far away from the present day (and another 10 photo's posted).
The car has now been fully painted, inside, outside, underside.... The bill for this was quite significant in the end, pretty much double the initial quote (although this was given without seeing the shell). I felt a bit uncomfortable about this, but I know that it needed it and there was a lot of work in it. As mentioned this should preserve the shell significantly and with this staying in my ownership I can only see that as a good investment.

All the parts were brought home in many shuttle runs and have been stored in a spare bedroom (great when you are having house sale viewings...ha)
The shell also was brought home on friday, quite a nerve wracking experience, but it all is well. It is now back on its axle stands in the garage and ready for the rebuild. There is still a fair bit to do, but I 100% feel like I am on the home straight now.

At this point I need to say a big thank you to @Big-ash (James Ashton). I don't think he is on here that often anymore but for what it is worth the guy is a legend, he has helped countless times over the past several weeks with shuttling bits, help moving the shell both ways and assistance when panel trimming, I really couldn't have done what I needed without you mate.

So looking forward.... what will Page 100 bring.... a new start...
 

haimsey

ClioSport Club Member
  ph2 172
Great work, curious on the final colour!..
Think you’ve mentioned before about the Audi adverts, and it’s been said many times that their adverts for the RS range are simple and effective.
 


Top