Is that actually crimped? As tbh the lug doesn't look like it has any crimping tool marks on it?
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The trials & tribulations of racing a Clio
- Thread starter robzracing
- Start date
Is that actually crimped? As tbh the lug doesn't look like it has any crimping tool marks on it?
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Yes it was crimped but the particular terminal I used there had quite thick walls and the crimper needed a bit more pressure.
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robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Yes positive from battery. Got new (and heavier duty) cable arriving shortly so will re make that one.
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Yes you have to be careful as there are many different grades of crimping lug, you obviously need the right tool for the job which you're now getting!!
RuskiWeldFab
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172, RS4 B7
I always use solder on terminals. Crimp then first then a dab of solder.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Solder attracts moisture and corrosion mate.
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Cable was re-crimped (properly) and all good. I have also since discovered that the Cartek isolator had a bad earth which in honesty I think was more of a contributing factor. So, now that's fixed, new HT leads fitted and the car is starting on the button as it should.
Just submitted my entry into the first race of the season at Snetterton next Sunday. Nothing like last minute!
Just submitted my entry into the first race of the season at Snetterton next Sunday. Nothing like last minute!
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
As you’re on here can I ask you, do you know how many trigger points the speed sensor in the gearbox has? Assuming it’s an inductive sensor (Which I’m pretty sure it is)
Trying to configure wheel speed in the Emerald!
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NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
62 -1 from memory mate
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Thanks Mark.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
No problem buddy. ??
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Right, finally preparation for the 1st race of the season is under way. Very happy to have solved the electrical issues so I can concentrate on driving the car now.
There's still lots of set up and configuration to do with the ECU and dash but that can come over time.
Over the weekend I made a start on checking over the suspension and tracking and thought I'd have a go at stringing the car for the first time.
Very time consuming doing it for the first time but with lots of notes taken and measurements taken hopefully it will get quicker. And the equipment needs to get a bit more accurate too! The string is not the right type and I will get some ali tube that I can notch.
All the same it was an interesting excercise that after much faffing seemed to show that the front wheels were marginally toe-ing in rather than out as they are supposed to be??
Very odd, but I've adjusted the tracking by 1 quarter turn on both sides and I'll measure it again before the car goes on the trailer on Saturday.
Camber was as it should be.
Finally, I've added one more degree of camber on the rear and firmed up the anti rollbar to try and dial out some of the over steer.
Sadly the next time I drive the car will be in qualifying as I don't have the time to test on Friday.
There are only 2 possible outcomes and what ever happens I will have time to make more adjustments before the race.
There's still lots of set up and configuration to do with the ECU and dash but that can come over time.
Over the weekend I made a start on checking over the suspension and tracking and thought I'd have a go at stringing the car for the first time.
Very time consuming doing it for the first time but with lots of notes taken and measurements taken hopefully it will get quicker. And the equipment needs to get a bit more accurate too! The string is not the right type and I will get some ali tube that I can notch.
All the same it was an interesting excercise that after much faffing seemed to show that the front wheels were marginally toe-ing in rather than out as they are supposed to be??
Very odd, but I've adjusted the tracking by 1 quarter turn on both sides and I'll measure it again before the car goes on the trailer on Saturday.
Camber was as it should be.
Finally, I've added one more degree of camber on the rear and firmed up the anti rollbar to try and dial out some of the over steer.
Sadly the next time I drive the car will be in qualifying as I don't have the time to test on Friday.
There are only 2 possible outcomes and what ever happens I will have time to make more adjustments before the race.
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
That camber tool looks very handy...
I need to learn how to string a car too... literally no idea
I need to learn how to string a car too... literally no idea
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Yeh, it’s all logical stuff really. Just a case of being thorough and methodical.
Ideally I’ll be able to do all my set up at home but ultimately that’s going to involve the purchase of some corner weight scales.
I’ve started to write a step by step guide for myself so I don’t ever forget anything which I’ll be happy to share once it’s finished.
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Ideally I’ll be able to do all my set up at home but ultimately that’s going to involve the purchase of some corner weight scales.
I’ve started to write a step by step guide for myself so I don’t ever forget anything which I’ll be happy to share once it’s finished.
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robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Yes that’s what I need.
I hate fishing but there is a really big fishing shop within walking distance of me so I’ll have to go and get some.
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MrBlonde
ClioSport Club Member
Great thread mate,will give me a decent read for my breaks at work.I visited Robs workshop last week after buying a set of PAS pipes from him,nice bloke and proper set up of clio race car.Good luck this season mate,nice to know your local to ??
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
Get some of the fluoro yellow sea fishing line, it's nice and easy to see.
I did a sticky thread on here which has an online calculator that you can use when doing the string method, just input your measurements and it'll tell you what the toe is.
https://robrobinette.com/DIYAlignmentCalculator.htm
I did a sticky thread on here which has an online calculator that you can use when doing the string method, just input your measurements and it'll tell you what the toe is.
https://robrobinette.com/DIYAlignmentCalculator.htm
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Thanks for this. I had to brush off the old trig skills at the weekend!
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
It'll make it easier for you because the strings don't need to be parallel to the car, only to each other (which they will be if you notch the tubes in the exact same distance from each end).
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Snetterton 7th April 2019
First race of the season was looking like it should be a dry one according the the forecast. We arrived Saturday night, dropped the car off and headed back to my mates house just outside Norwich for the night.
Sunday morning we arrived very early to set up and everything was looking good. The car was starting ok which was the main concern.
So, I went in to qualifying hopeful that my suspension changes were going to make a difference and I wasn't dissappointed. The car felt far more neutral and I quickly built confidence into the corners which in the early stages put me 3rd on the grid. As the laps went by the faster cars started knocking me down a few places until Tom Mensley in the fastest Clio (historically) came up to me on the track and we proceeded to have a good spat, weaving our way through slower cars. Despite having bigger brakes than me he was braking earlier than me and I was quicker on the straights but ultimately his considerably lighter car had me through all the quick corners.
After a quick pit stop to check tyre pressures I went to go out again but the car starting issue raised it's ugly head again and I needed to be pushed out of the pits to start the car.
Winding the car back up to full speed on the back straight, all of a sudden the car lost power and developed what felt like a misfire. I pulled over and killed the engine assuming it was connected to my electrical gremlins.
As the session finished my final position was 10th out of 39 cars but I lost a lot of time with the failure and I'm sure I would have gone quicker. However it was all academic in the end. Once back in the paddock we got into checking the electrics again until someone offered me a spare battery. After swapping it over, bingo! the car fired straight away. BUT it didn't sound well. The misfire was still there and there was a definite metallic knocking.
My first thought was that it sounded like a valve but after popping the end caps off and checking the timing it all seemed spot on but that was as far as we could go at Snetterton. Time to pack up.
Fortunately after that the heavens opened and the race ultimately proved to be a very wet one. So, considering I still haven't fitted the wipers and I left my set of wets at home perhaps it was a blessing in disguise?
Fast forward 3 weeks and work had been keeping me from investigating the car further until last weekend when I set aside a day to get into it.
The plan was to drop the oil first, this would hopefully give me an indication of whether it was the bottom end. The oil definitely looked a bit sparkly so I decided it wasn't worth doing any more until I had a chance to strip it right down.
In the mean time I went to see Thurston Engineering, the company who put the bottom end together to discuss investigating the problem. They were surprised that there should be a bearing failure so soon but obviously they couldn't do anything until I got the engine to them.
So this weekend I took the car over to Mark Fish who had agreed to let me use a ramp on Saturday with a view to him helping me put everything back together once the engine is sorted.
By lunchtime I was ready to pull the engine
And then strip it...
Before turning it over to remove the sump and have a proper look inside I decided to remove the head. Then everything changed!
Thank god I shut the engine off when I did though...
As soon as I saw the bolt I knew exactly where it had come from...
At this point Steve Greenald, one half of Track n' Road who dyno'd the car turned up. He and I had a cry together.
The engine will go to Thurston Engineering on Tuesday for them to inspect it properly. I'm hoping a new piston and 4 new valves will be all I need but there's no knowing whether a rod is bent or the glitter in the oil is from a damaged bearing from the piston hitting the bolt.
Mark and I both think the head is salvageable though, so while they sort the bottom end I'll make a start on the head.
Only 20 days to Oulton Park. Let's see if we can make it.
First race of the season was looking like it should be a dry one according the the forecast. We arrived Saturday night, dropped the car off and headed back to my mates house just outside Norwich for the night.
Sunday morning we arrived very early to set up and everything was looking good. The car was starting ok which was the main concern.
So, I went in to qualifying hopeful that my suspension changes were going to make a difference and I wasn't dissappointed. The car felt far more neutral and I quickly built confidence into the corners which in the early stages put me 3rd on the grid. As the laps went by the faster cars started knocking me down a few places until Tom Mensley in the fastest Clio (historically) came up to me on the track and we proceeded to have a good spat, weaving our way through slower cars. Despite having bigger brakes than me he was braking earlier than me and I was quicker on the straights but ultimately his considerably lighter car had me through all the quick corners.
After a quick pit stop to check tyre pressures I went to go out again but the car starting issue raised it's ugly head again and I needed to be pushed out of the pits to start the car.
Winding the car back up to full speed on the back straight, all of a sudden the car lost power and developed what felt like a misfire. I pulled over and killed the engine assuming it was connected to my electrical gremlins.
As the session finished my final position was 10th out of 39 cars but I lost a lot of time with the failure and I'm sure I would have gone quicker. However it was all academic in the end. Once back in the paddock we got into checking the electrics again until someone offered me a spare battery. After swapping it over, bingo! the car fired straight away. BUT it didn't sound well. The misfire was still there and there was a definite metallic knocking.
My first thought was that it sounded like a valve but after popping the end caps off and checking the timing it all seemed spot on but that was as far as we could go at Snetterton. Time to pack up.
Fortunately after that the heavens opened and the race ultimately proved to be a very wet one. So, considering I still haven't fitted the wipers and I left my set of wets at home perhaps it was a blessing in disguise?
Fast forward 3 weeks and work had been keeping me from investigating the car further until last weekend when I set aside a day to get into it.
The plan was to drop the oil first, this would hopefully give me an indication of whether it was the bottom end. The oil definitely looked a bit sparkly so I decided it wasn't worth doing any more until I had a chance to strip it right down.
In the mean time I went to see Thurston Engineering, the company who put the bottom end together to discuss investigating the problem. They were surprised that there should be a bearing failure so soon but obviously they couldn't do anything until I got the engine to them.
So this weekend I took the car over to Mark Fish who had agreed to let me use a ramp on Saturday with a view to him helping me put everything back together once the engine is sorted.
By lunchtime I was ready to pull the engine
And then strip it...
Before turning it over to remove the sump and have a proper look inside I decided to remove the head. Then everything changed!
Thank god I shut the engine off when I did though...
As soon as I saw the bolt I knew exactly where it had come from...
At this point Steve Greenald, one half of Track n' Road who dyno'd the car turned up. He and I had a cry together.
The engine will go to Thurston Engineering on Tuesday for them to inspect it properly. I'm hoping a new piston and 4 new valves will be all I need but there's no knowing whether a rod is bent or the glitter in the oil is from a damaged bearing from the piston hitting the bolt.
Mark and I both think the head is salvageable though, so while they sort the bottom end I'll make a start on the head.
Only 20 days to Oulton Park. Let's see if we can make it.
Attachments
Chambers_RS
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172 Cup&Leon K1
Sorry to hear the bad luck. Hopefully it’ll be easy fix.
donnylad
ClioSport Club Member
saw this on facebook, right pain in the arse rob. hope you can get it sorted!
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Thanks, we'll find out this week hopefully!
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Thanks mate. I'm staying positive!
EVO 4LEX
ClioSport Club Member
Golf R and a 172 Cup
Sorry to hear about the engine. As others have said, hopefully a quick fix and back on the grid for the next round.
Some threadlock on all the trumpet bolts now then too. Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it.
What does your car weigh now as I thought you had quite a bit of weight out of it but you say there is another that is considerably lighter? What does his weigh?
Some threadlock on all the trumpet bolts now then too. Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it.
What does your car weigh now as I thought you had quite a bit of weight out of it but you say there is another that is considerably lighter? What does his weigh?
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Thanks mate, me too.
I estimate mine is knocking on 870kg, but I have yet to fit fibreglass doors and boot. Tom's shell was dipped before he built it so all seam sealer and stonechip was removed. He's got an alumium flat floor in the boot and of course fibreglass everything.
He even uses an alternator out of a JCB to save weight!
Don't know how light it is though as he plays his cards very close to his chest.
I do know my engine makes more power but there really is no substitute for weight saving.
RuskiWeldFab
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172, RS4 B7
[emoji24] mate that is some bad luck right there. Hope it’s like you said few valves and a piston.
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EVO 4LEX
ClioSport Club Member
Golf R and a 172 Cup
Crazy when you say 870 is heavy.. that’s good going with the steel bootlid! Think mine is around 900 but is still road legal with full dash and stock heater box etc!
Always looking to get more weight out though because as you say it’s the best way. Corners better; stops easier, not as heavy on tyres. It all makes a big difference.
Chambers_RS
ClioSport Club Member
Clio 172 Cup&Leon K1
Apparently my shell is 850kg with fibreglass boot l, bonnet, doors, manual mirrors and no dash ??♂️ Yet to check it out my self but pushing it in and out my garage I can defo tell the difference to me Cup shell ??
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
That sounds about right. I'll get mine on the scales once its back together.
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
New oil pump too with there being glitter in the oil?
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Thanks.
Yes I’m in Hertfordshire, just outside Hertford.
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R29TJR
ClioSport Club Member
2005 RB 182 Cup
For some reason assumed you where based up North but when you mentioned Mark Fish and Track 'n' Road made me think different!
Nafoff
ClioSport Club Member
Ah man, frustrating on the engine and as said super unlucky. Interesting way to look at it in that it may have been for the better as you lacked wet tyres and wipers (the lack of wipers made me chuckle...) I hope you get it sorted with minimal costs/ease mate.
Interesting to read about the competition and the weight differences too, then to hear different peoples weights...
Mine SHOULD be similar to this hopefully. It does feel very light but I have no idea what it will weigh. Need to get it weighed whilst it is at Northampton Motorsport
Interesting to read about the competition and the weight differences too, then to hear different peoples weights...
Mine SHOULD be similar to this hopefully. It does feel very light but I have no idea what it will weigh. Need to get it weighed whilst it is at Northampton Motorsport
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Yes, weight is most definitely the enemy!
Been on a bit of a rollercoaster ride over the past few days with the engine.
I emailed PEC over the weekend to ask if they can supply a replacement piston plus rings, valves etc only to be emailed on Tuesday to tell me that those pistons are no longer available!
So after exploring alternative piston options which looked like developing into a far more expensive job in as much as, not only having to buy 4 pistons also having to have the whole bottom end re-balanced etc.
As I knew that Supertech in the states made the pistons for PEC I decided to email them directly. But alas, they confirmed that they had made them exclusively for PEC and had shipped all the stock to them.
So another call to the engine builder to ask them to have a closer look at the piston to see if there was any chance of saving it.
Then Happy Days when I got a call from them this morning to say that they think it is salvageable!
So now all I need is new rings and we decided to renew the big end bearings as a precaution.
Unfortunately the weak link in the chain seem to be PEC themselves who are ridiculously busy and are taking a while to respond now. Nothing further can happen until I have the rings. The valves I can get from anywhere but PEC know which rings I need so I'm at their mercy.
Pure Motorsport have also just received an order for various other items as have RPD. So just a case of getting all the ducks in a row!
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Anyone following me on Instagram will know this already but the last 10 days have seen some decent progress but again she's fighting me to the end.
The engine parts saga concluded with Thurston deciding that the rings were also salvageable. the engine having only done about 40 hours running. They removed all the pistons, cleaned everything up including the damaged piston. Rebalanced everything and then re assembled with a new set of King Race bearings.
Interestingly the bearings that came out were not in very good condition with Thurston diagnosing low oil pressure the most likely candidate for the cause. Something to look at again at the end of the season. In the meantime these should see me through and we may have actually dodged a bullet changing them at this stage.
Mark Fish mentioned that when he was running a Clio Cup team back in the day they used to change big end bearings halfway through the season as a precaution. I can see why!
Back from Thurston
Very lucky that the piston wasn't worse
Badly worn bearings
With the bottom end back and the head cleaned up, new valves lapped in and leak test carried out I bolted the 2 together with new head bolts and head gasket and then it was back to Mark Fish to try and get everything back together. This was last Saturday 21st May
New valves courtesy of Nick at PMS
No Leaks!
At Marks all went well until I discovered Nick had sent 2 inlet cam seals instead of 2 exhaust cam seals and as Mark has left me alone for the afternoon while he went to a party I was stuck with nothing more to do.
I left the workshop on Saturday with the Gearbox and engine all together on the hoist feeling rather deflated.
When I got back to my workshop at home however I discovered I had two brand new spare cam seals! If only I'd remembered!
Cam cover ready
Exhaust on the right
Anyway, cut to Monday afternoon. Having managed to wrap up a days worth of meetings in half a day I arrived at Mark Fish again at midday to press on with the install.
By 4pm the engine was timed up and in the car. By 6 it was full of fluids and ready to fire up. After turning the engine over without sparkplugs for a while to check for oil pressure I reinserted the plugs and prepared for the first start.
After 2 attempts it fired! Struggled for about 10 seconds and then died. It felt good but then the dreaded starting issue raised its head again!
This time having Mark with me was a massive help. We tried it with various battery boosters plugged in, checked everything and still nothing.
Mark then tested the starter directly off a booster, bypassing all of the cars wiring and sure enough it was still not behaving. It would crank for a short while and then would seem to lose inertia and the gear would start skipping over the flywheel.
His conclusion was a bad starter, despite the fact that it's brand new.
So again, that was the end of play.
Tomorrow is Wednesday. I've cleared the decks so I have a full day at the car. In the morning I will be changing the starter AGAIN! I've ordered another new one from RPD but if that doesn't arrive in time I have another used spare which I will try.
The car is due at the dyno at 2.30 so we'll see if we actually get there.
The engine parts saga concluded with Thurston deciding that the rings were also salvageable. the engine having only done about 40 hours running. They removed all the pistons, cleaned everything up including the damaged piston. Rebalanced everything and then re assembled with a new set of King Race bearings.
Interestingly the bearings that came out were not in very good condition with Thurston diagnosing low oil pressure the most likely candidate for the cause. Something to look at again at the end of the season. In the meantime these should see me through and we may have actually dodged a bullet changing them at this stage.
Mark Fish mentioned that when he was running a Clio Cup team back in the day they used to change big end bearings halfway through the season as a precaution. I can see why!
Back from Thurston
Very lucky that the piston wasn't worse
Badly worn bearings
With the bottom end back and the head cleaned up, new valves lapped in and leak test carried out I bolted the 2 together with new head bolts and head gasket and then it was back to Mark Fish to try and get everything back together. This was last Saturday 21st May
New valves courtesy of Nick at PMS
No Leaks!
At Marks all went well until I discovered Nick had sent 2 inlet cam seals instead of 2 exhaust cam seals and as Mark has left me alone for the afternoon while he went to a party I was stuck with nothing more to do.
I left the workshop on Saturday with the Gearbox and engine all together on the hoist feeling rather deflated.
When I got back to my workshop at home however I discovered I had two brand new spare cam seals! If only I'd remembered!
Cam cover ready
Exhaust on the right
Anyway, cut to Monday afternoon. Having managed to wrap up a days worth of meetings in half a day I arrived at Mark Fish again at midday to press on with the install.
By 4pm the engine was timed up and in the car. By 6 it was full of fluids and ready to fire up. After turning the engine over without sparkplugs for a while to check for oil pressure I reinserted the plugs and prepared for the first start.
After 2 attempts it fired! Struggled for about 10 seconds and then died. It felt good but then the dreaded starting issue raised its head again!
This time having Mark with me was a massive help. We tried it with various battery boosters plugged in, checked everything and still nothing.
Mark then tested the starter directly off a booster, bypassing all of the cars wiring and sure enough it was still not behaving. It would crank for a short while and then would seem to lose inertia and the gear would start skipping over the flywheel.
His conclusion was a bad starter, despite the fact that it's brand new.
So again, that was the end of play.
Tomorrow is Wednesday. I've cleared the decks so I have a full day at the car. In the morning I will be changing the starter AGAIN! I've ordered another new one from RPD but if that doesn't arrive in time I have another used spare which I will try.
The car is due at the dyno at 2.30 so we'll see if we actually get there.
robzracing
ClioSport Club Member
Correction above. Exhaust cam is on the left in the pic!
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