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Toastfrenzy's Tin Top, some say...........
- Thread starter Toastfrenzy
- Start date
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
Not with any certainty because the car performed flawlessly in testing so if I can't find anything wrong I can't fix it. This wasn't a simple code reading session either and I normally have a high success rate with these kind of gremlins but I scoped, probed, prodded and metered just about everything which is why we charged him for the hour only and made a few guesses at routes to go if it came back on an event.
Unless the fault manifests itself on a more regular basis I think he's got the right idea as I've seen people try to fix problems like this and lose a small fortune whilst at it.
Mick
Unfortunately it didn't error when he had the car, so all he could do and did do was check each component (TB\Pedal etc) clean connections, conductivity check and rectify any faults brought up after diagnostics..of which there were none at the time. So apart from strip the loom out and manually check each wire not a lot else could\can be done I expect.
Bummer really, as a couple of days ago started to fit the Aim data logger, which connects to the ecu, got the electrical fault light the 1st time I switched on, typical.
So sent the Data logger back - money can be spent better else where (can hear Jay hand to head ffs'ing lol)
That's where it's at - money and a fair bit either way to resolve. Strip the loom out and find the broken wire or after market ecu and dash to stop the fault interfering with the car (and when the broken wire shorts, smokes catches fire i'll know where it is).
At least I tried the far cheaper option first.....will an aftermarket ecu stop the car going into limp mode 100%.
timing lol
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
Yes, fo'shizzle providing you put in a decent infrastructure to hook it up. Personally I'd ditch everything Renault put in and start again.
182cup & 172 racecar
Yes good timing lol.
Thats a real bummer, and typical.
Wasn't being critical Mick, just thought if anybody could find it, you could.
Strip out maybe the way forward
.
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
I know you wasn't matey, don't panic... Things like this frustrate the hell out of me because I know Pete's not a mental that invents fictitious faults so it obviously happened (and apparently has done since).
It'll deffo be a minor issue with a wiring loom but it's finding it. Boosh had a similar fault but we found some problems with his primary CAN Bus so hopefully that's his nailed.
It'll deffo be a minor issue with a wiring loom but it's finding it. Boosh had a similar fault but we found some problems with his primary CAN Bus so hopefully that's his nailed.
Just a shot in the Dark here Pete , we had the very same thing on our cup , intermittent limp mode you could literally flick the ignition off and straight back on and it would be fine for a bit , sometimes days . It was the reason the owner sold it as his garage could not track down the fault .
I am Lucky enough to be good friends with Richard who runs Westbourne Motorsport ,the Clio Cup team , we knew the fault was there so it went straight into their workshop , and they finally traced it down to a broken wire .
The wire broken from memory was under the gearbox and was something to do with the relay that supplies power to the ecu , i can ask exactly which wire and where they found it as it might be a common area that the loom gets pulled ....
Took them a few days but they found it , hope this gives you a pointer , but they worked it out to a common area from the faults that had been logged on the ecu which were many and different .
Harv
I am Lucky enough to be good friends with Richard who runs Westbourne Motorsport ,the Clio Cup team , we knew the fault was there so it went straight into their workshop , and they finally traced it down to a broken wire .
The wire broken from memory was under the gearbox and was something to do with the relay that supplies power to the ecu , i can ask exactly which wire and where they found it as it might be a common area that the loom gets pulled ....
Took them a few days but they found it , hope this gives you a pointer , but they worked it out to a common area from the faults that had been logged on the ecu which were many and different .
Harv
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
Harv,
That's one of the possibles we gave him but we didn't want to waste his cash as his car has had the wiring loom re-routed from its original design... That area being one.
It is where most issues seem to be with these cars but we've also seen a few Cups with dash loom problems also.
Mick
That's one of the possibles we gave him but we didn't want to waste his cash as his car has had the wiring loom re-routed from its original design... That area being one.
It is where most issues seem to be with these cars but we've also seen a few Cups with dash loom problems also.
Mick
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
The main fault that appears to be the root cause of Petes problem is DF129 (I think from memory) which reads as an incoherence issue between track 1 and track 2 of the pedal. Normally this fault is caused by a faulty pedal potentiometer itself or there's a fault in the loom between the pedal and the ECM
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
A mate of mine had df129 on his cup and it turned out to be the vvt solonoid! Work that out. Took ages to find and it was doing the same thing as Pete's.
Take it you mean re-wire from scratch?
Hi Harv, thanks, if you could ask it's another place to look as opposed to hunting in a hay stack - seems to be a very common problem with these cups, Renault in general - lol
I know where it is, can it be replaced on the day track side, simple\easy to remove\refit? If so I'll try and get down and pick one up before next weekend...
Another place to look, is this easy to get at swap out track side? Cost much to buy anyone know?
So,
Ballpark figure to strip out and rewire?
plus cost of ecu and dash -
Guesstimate on man hours to fault find and repair broken loom and cost?
Both options sound pricey to me, though the fault find and repair sounds cheaper......
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
The cup my mate had bent my head for ages as it was coming up as pedal track 1&2 incoherent. I removed the loom, the throttle pedal and everything else related to it but no faults found! In the end I swapped everything over off my car one by one (time-consuming and a right pita!) only to find the vvt solenoid cured it.......... It certainly didn't ring true with what the fault code was saying!
Btw, I do the same kind of job as you Mick, just on trucks so this is the sort of job I get lumbered with day in day out. I do the cars on the side and never has a car caused me so much grief! Lol!
A vvt solenoid is a simple easy job to replace track side pete, and the price Mick is quoting for the repairs/fault finding is a competitive price I'd say.
MicKPM
ClioSport Trader
Clio16v/Zoe Z.E.50
I'm certain it's wiring and not a component fault but as money is a constraint I didn't want to waste time.
The solenoid valve is totally unconnected but "French car" so never say never and I have one as a test rig. The problem is the bloody car performs faultlessly when it comes to the workshop so it's a no win.
The solenoid valve is totally unconnected but "French car" so never say never and I have one as a test rig. The problem is the bloody car performs faultlessly when it comes to the workshop so it's a no win.
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Lol @ the "French car"!!! The solenoid is totally unconnected which is what confused me! Still can't understand it now!!
172 Race Car
As I said several pages back. You have a 10 year old French wiring loom that's been disturned to a great degree (whilst fitting the cage). There are dozens and dozens of cars on here that its happened too. Mine being one. Strip it all out and make it work properly. You'll save weight, add reliability, simplify and future proof it.
Problem is cost. Remember you'd prob have to switch to a cable throttle bosy too if going aftermarket
Have you tried a spare engine loom? There are enough poeple breaking them that it can't that much. I assume the 172 cup has different loom to everything else?
To be honest I don't want to put an after market ecu or dash in as don't plan on getting ITB's - no need at the moment and not going to just spend\replace expensive items just for the sake of it - the ecu and dash won't improve things a great deal on their own with out ITB's I think.
I think the choices are - now limited due to this decision.
Loom out - check over fix n replace
Loom out - replace with 2nd hand one
Loom out - replace with new one from Renault (if this is possible)
Loom out - and re-wire as is
I'll have to leave any work until after 23rd (Mallory) any way and I'll have 2 months to get something sorted before the next race at the end of August at Mallory.
I think the choices are - now limited due to this decision.
Loom out - check over fix n replace
Loom out - replace with 2nd hand one
Loom out - replace with new one from Renault (if this is possible)
Loom out - and re-wire as is
I'll have to leave any work until after 23rd (Mallory) any way and I'll have 2 months to get something sorted before the next race at the end of August at Mallory.
182cup & 172 racecar
Do you think it might be that then Dan ?
182cup & 172 racecar
I'll check. lol.
what's a TB again?
far to many garage owners in here and not enough mechanics - Dan can you post one if I can't get down by Tuesday?
Picked the Cup up from getting the tracking sorted and toe out\camber checked - £48. seems OK. A lot cheaper (£100 cheaper) than what I have paid in the past - though wasn't there and will have to check all the nut's etc later this week.
Getting a try of a Qstarz BT-Q1000EX 10Hz GPS Data logger for Saturday - seems to get good reviews and comes with decent enough software with a load of UK and rest of the world tracks to download.
No TB as yet - have to see if Dan's around today - tomorrow.
Getting a try of a Qstarz BT-Q1000EX 10Hz GPS Data logger for Saturday - seems to get good reviews and comes with decent enough software with a load of UK and rest of the world tracks to download.
No TB as yet - have to see if Dan's around today - tomorrow.
Brands damage all repaired - removed all door trim and replaced with a silver stripe, sliver is a bit dark but it covers up the holes left by the trim.
Go the pax seat back in and all that's left to do before Mallory on Sat is give it a clean.
Go the pax seat back in and all that's left to do before Mallory on Sat is give it a clean.
182cup & 172 racecar
Looks better Pete, you wouldn't know. Have fun At Mallory.
Got held up at work, merekats, pffft. You around today as will try again same time, if you go out can you leave the TB where you left the stickers?
Cheers Tony, not so sure about the stripe though myself. Weather is looking like I may have a few tyre\wheel changes on my hands - at least we could get our first ever rain on a track day.
Come and say hi, it'll be a busy day as been told that we are sharing the paddock etc with the Rally of the Midlands who are there for the weekend, they aren't using the track (during the day) just the paddock and other places.
182cup & 172 racecar
now I feel I have to rip the stripes off......they do look naff. Holes better for now?
