Uprated poly exhaust mounts - how many interested?

[Clio_fool]

We are going to work on making a high volume of these to keep the price as low as possible. I make more selling Powerflex but this is a much better product so I'd rather help get this out to market than make loads of profit.

How long are we looking at until these are available then Kev? Good job taking this on?

 

[PhillipM]

Probably a couple of weeks, I've quite a few to make/cure, there should be plenty in the first batch for everyone to get some though, don't worry

 

[Clio_fool]

I smell a group buy??

 

[PhillipM]

That's up to Kev, I won't be selling any myself until he's run out...at which point hopefully the next sale is to Kev again

 

[haimsey]

Nice one Kev. Nice to see someone helping out, have a feeling it won’t take long for these to fly off the shelves at Kam!

 

[PhillipM]

Probably a couple of weeks

Almost finished on my end, another day or two for finishing the batch and baking/curing, so shouldn't be too much longer before Kev has them in hand, for those waiting on them

 

[PhillipM]

Big wall 'o' KAM:

Well, some of it anyway.

 

[PhillipM]

I've just shipped two boxes to Kev, so feel free to harass him, he said he's having a wonderful time answering the phone today so a few more calls all week should keep him happy.

?

 

[Clio_fool]

@Kev@KAM they going straight on the Web site or will we be lucky enough to be offered a limited time pre sale?

 

[Kev@KAM]

still on the phone lol. I wont have time to set these up for a pre-sale as i'm also doing quartely accounts

 

[Kev@KAM]

And finally!
Been a bit busy due to end of quarter vat return and my lack of paperwork for three months

https://www.kamracing.co.uk/car-tun...unt-bush-172-182-renaultsport-all-models.html

 

[PhillipM]

You've a bit of powerflex stuff stuck at the bottom of the description there from the copy pasta

 

[Kev@KAM]

Jons s**t at his job sometimes.

 

[Kev@KAM]

fixed lol - I sound like a broken record. Proof read when setting up products.

 

[PhillipM]

Hey, at least your helpers can read. Mine sit in a corner chewing crayons.

 

[PhillipM]

Right guys, after few more requests, I'm looking at some dogbone bushes, I wasn't going to because there's a lot of them available, but after chatting with a few people about the vibrations levels and the thread last month about the same I know I can offer something far less harsh.

However, the only local car I have is that 1.4 Clio I was testing the first mount on, and it looks like there's some difference between that and the larger engine mounts (just going by part numbers - it may be as simple as the larger engine cars have stiffer mounts?) and apparently between ph1 and ph2 mounts?
Anyone got definitive answers?

 

[Simon998]

ph1 172 has a different dog bone to the ph2 172 and 182.

Ph1 is straight:

ph2 is twisted:

 

[flebay]

non sport https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-...-8200151995-/281260435860?hash=item417c6da994
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-Ne...nt+genuine&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313
The difference is the large bush on the sport uses more metal and less rubber other than that there the same.
The problem with the Renault mounts is the small bush goes loose within a day from the housing making a groove in the rubber.

 

[Kev@KAM]

Theres no point in doing one for the Ph1 if you want to sell a decent amount.

 

[PhillipM]

Yeah, that Ph2 twisted one is the one I've seen, so they must both have been ph2's. If it's just rubber differences that's easy then.

 

[PhillipM]

Theres no point in doing one for the Ph1 if you want to sell a decent amount.

Not many around?
Pity, that's the easy one!

 

[Kev@KAM]

I honestly think theres not enough now to warrant a special order part which is a shame yet inevitable

 

[PhillipM]

Okay, so this is the later mount, yes?

I've got one of these with the square end in already, from my brothers old 1.4, is this a ph1 version?

Or is it the case that the smaller engine models do actually have a different mount and not just rubber bush differences?

 

[Louis]

Okay, so this is the later mount, yes?

View attachment 1376297

I've got one of these with the square end in already, from my brothers old 1.4, is this a ph1 version?

View attachment 1376296

Or is it the case that the smaller engine models do actually have a different mount and not just rubber bush differences?

Different mount

 

[PhillipM]

Okay, so I just want a couple of those first ones then for measuring, thanks.

Anyone want a brand new 1.2/1.4 mount now I've found it out?

 

[Clio_fool]

I have the dogbone off my 182 sat doing nothing if you want it mate?

 

[PhillipM]

Yes please, I'll send it you back when I'm done with it

 

[Clio_fool]

Yes please, I'll send it you back when I'm done with it

Pm me your address and I'll drop it in the post Monday then. [emoji106]

 

[PhillipM]

I got the one from Oss (thanks!) and a new cheapo ebay one - pressed the bushes out, etc - unfortunately there seems to be a fair variation in size between the two - the holes aren't very round in either and the cheapo is 1mm bigger on the small end and between a 1mm smaller and 1mm bigger on the large one, depending where you measure.

Good news is the bush design I wanted to use on the large end will work okay with that, bad news is the design for the small end probably won't push in without fettling housings, it's far too rigid - so I might have to rework that, I'm still going to prototype one as planned first though and I'll look at accommodating size variations after some NVH testing.

 

[PhillipM]

Bit 'o' late night rendering whilst working on CAM toolpaths...

 

[flebay]

the holes aren't very round in either and the cheapo is 1mm bigger on the small end

Every one will be running genuine Renault so i would get another 172/182 mount to compare sizes and bin the cheapo.

 

[PhillipM]

I need to accomodate them all really, just in case.

 

[PhillipM]

Ran a few more deflection tests and tweaked things to keep the overall shape similar to a Renault OE bush for radial loads, and thinned the bush down but increased the insert size to keep the axial/twisting forces more in line with the renault design (keeps all the harsh vibrations suppressed when you get any misalignment, which is where most poly bushes are terrible):

Then beefed up the bridges as much as possible (basically stiffening it when you get on/off throttle) until they start getting to the point of little return for more harshness.
Got a prototype running atm, see how it goes.

Spent a bit of time working out toolpaths and pricing, and depending on what I have to do with the smaller mount (still working on that one), should work out cheaper than the Powerflex ones too.

 

[PhillipM]

Prototype fits great in both housings, plenty of preload in both, lips are perfect.
It's a little tricky to press in so I'll might make a tweak or two after testing but so far, so good.

 

[flebay]

little tricky to press in so I'll might make a tweak or two after testing but so far, so good

should be OK for most people if it can be pressed in using a vice.

 

[PhillipM]

Oh they'll go in with a vice, you just need to make sure you're bearing on the outer lips with a large socket or similar

 

[PhillipM]

Okay, the original plan for the small end using a spherical bearing isn't going to work - too much variation in housing sizes - so back to plan B and polybush it, should have a prototype ready for testing next week.

 

[PhillipM]

Okay, poly alternative for the small end too - single piece press, so it's a little more robust than the two piece solutions:

 

[PhillipM]

Right, got everything where I'm happy, bar a few tweaks I want to make for ease of fitting + cosmetics. poly both ends now, oversized aluminium inserts similar to the OE bush, to spread the stress over a wide area on the polyurethane and also allow for full bolt clamping torque just the same as the Renault specs, without any worry of squashing the bushes or distorting the inserts:

I've tweaked things so they can more easily be fitted by a vice or some clamps now, whilst still retaining similar preload levels.

@OssPoop has kindly agreed to letting me test it vs the uprated lower mount he's already running as a back to back, I'd also like to test it on someone's car with a relatively new standard lower mount if someone local wouldn't mind volunteering their car for a test run - all the simulations in the world aren't worth an hour on the car

 

[PhillipM]

Okay, @dCi_rep sent me a nice pack full of used mounts this morning, which I've cleaned up and measured up - the good news is, the sizes are all well within what the bush design will cope with for preload variation, so I don't need to make any changes. In fact I could probably slacken things off a little on tolerances but I cba

I can also see just how much they suffer with the small bush getting knocked out - the big bush is perfect on one even though the small end is dead, and it's pretty similar on another one too. But then again it's so much stiffer than the large bush and with so little area, that's expected, fortunately what I'm using in the small end is about 3x tougher than the OE compound, and has more lateral support.
Anyway, looking at that, I may offer the two bushes seperately - that would give people a nice cheap option just to refurb the mounts you have if just the small end bush is shot, with a decent replacement part, without being a massive amount stiffer any thoughts on that, or would you be more likely just to buy the kit of two + inserts anyway if you were taking the mount off?

I still need to get around to checking fitment and some quick testing, but me and @OssPoop keep missing each other at the moment


An as a slight aside, if anyone wants a look at the mounts, and/or the exhaust mounts that KAM are now stocking, then they'll be on display at a stand next month at the TCT manufacturing show in the NEC - along with a few other parts for different models, engine mounts, wishbone bushes, subframe mountings, balljoint boots, etc, etc - you may or may not catch me personally as I won't be at the stand for long.