VIPER OFF!!

[jpmad4it2]

Renault said that the pipercross kit is sucking warm air into my engine. The service guy bollocked me! He said stop playing with your car! I said excuse me? He said well you have invalidated your warranty (sh*t!), and renault spent a lot of money designing the best way to get cold air into the engine, so put the old kit back on, and just buy a K&N or pipercross filter to go in it!!! Suggestions?

 

[Ben H]

Hes right. The most efficient induction system available is... your airbox! Not 100% certain about the 172/Cup engine bay, but the 16V/Williams induction kits can only suck in lots of hot air from their position. Ever noticed that competition cars use the airbox?

Still, induction kits sound amazing!

 

[jpmad4it2]

yeah but if your get a filter to go in the box will it not just create a nice beefy sound like that?

 

[Dansta]

No where near as beefy, but does make a nice deep sound on full throttle.

 

[aledw]

Some thoughts cross my mind reading the first post above...

How can a Viper suck warm air if the intake pipe is usually routed further away than the standard airbox feed pipe, i.e. its poking out the bumper or wheelwell?

and

Why dont the Clio Cup Racers use this super efficient standard airbox?

and

Do service managers play God?

 

[Pete]

The viper et al, are designed to allow more air into the engine, not cold air, the reason racers dont use them is that they are not concerned with the lifespan of the engine. and yes service managers play god.

 

[Ben H]

Just because a Viper sucks in more air doesnt mean its cold! An airbox usually has a thermometer that instructs a valve to compensate for hot/cold air and therefoe keeps the air sucked into the inlet manifold at a constant temperature.

 

[Roamer]

A well installed viper gives more cold air into the inlet than the standard airbox, on mine it was forward facing in the lower grille and worked very well, infact too well until I got a remap done to compensate with the fueling.

 

[BRUN]

either you hadnt got your Viper cold air feed in a decent place or he was talkin sh*t and probably didnt realise what the viper was, its a carbon airbox, it will reflect the heat from the engine and if positioned properly your inlet temps should be less than before

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by aledw on 22 November 2003


Some thoughts cross my mind reading the first post above...

How can a Viper suck warm air if the intake pipe is usually routed further away than the standard airbox feed pipe, i.e. its poking out the bumper or wheelwell?

and

Why dont the Clio Cup Racers use this super efficient standard airbox?

and

Do service managers play God?

Exactly...

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by Ben H on 22 November 2003

An airbox usually has a thermometer that instructs a valve to compensate for hot/cold air and therefoe keeps the air sucked into the inlet manifold at a constant temperature.

There is nothing like this on any of the cars Ive owned...

Air is the same temp whether it passes through a standard air box or a Viper, but the latter is not as restrictive. Its only open induction kits that suck in warm air from under the bonnet.

 

[Jonesy]

There is no way that a £250 induction kit will let in more hot air than a standard airbox, the whole point of it being sealed in carbon is to keep the temp down, im sure carbon fibre reflects heat better than plastic does.

Anyway the bloke must be a mug, and is probably jelous as they dont make a viper for his car, a renualt twingo!

 

[CUPPY]

im about to purchase a viper? shall i or shall i not???? should i just have an exhaust fitted ????..im a bit concerened and a bit confused !!!!!

 

[BRUN]

buy a BMC CDA mate, a lot cheaper and just as good, that way you will have some change to put towards the exhaust

you can get em from any Motor World or buy one from Demon Tweeks

 

[adiclio16v]

open ind kits do not work properly a sealed ind kit will infact help lower induction temps and will keep a helpful eye on things hehe

carbon ind kits keep ind temps well cooler and keep it all well sweet never wud i keep it in the gear mutha fuker

 

[N.Hill]

Black is a colour that absorbes heat surely?. Heat retardant shiny aluminium reflects heat. http://www.hillpower.co.ukwww.hillpower.co.uk

 

[Griff]

I think the material used is more important that the colour. If colour was that important then surely the space shuttle would have some fancy silver bottom not black ceramic bricks.

 

[Neil82]

Quote: Originally posted by jpmad4it2 on 22 November 2003

Renault said that the pipercross kit is sucking warm air into my engine. The service guy bollocked me! He said stop playing with your car! I said excuse me? He said well you have invalidated your warranty (sh*t!), and renault spent a lot of money designing the best way to get cold air into the engine, so put the old kit back on, and just buy a K&N or pipercross filter to go in it!!! Suggestions?

So hes now saying you have no warrenty on your engine even tho its off now?

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by BRUN on 23 November 2003


buy a BMC CDA mate, a lot cheaper and just as good

Are they cheaper?!

If so, how much???

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by N.Hill on 23 November 2003

Black is a colour that absorbes heat surely?. Heat retardant shiny aluminium reflects heat. http://www.hillpower.co.ukwww.hillpower.co.uk

But carbon fibre is a good thermal insultor...

My Viper is stone cold if you lift the bonnet and its the coolest part of the engine bay, so they do work in keeping the intake temp down. It was colder than I expected!

 

[jpmad4it2]

anyone got pics of their installations? My viper seems to be moderately warm after longish journeys of around 20 odd miles. Is this usual? I need to know fast as i have a buyer for £170, and i dunno what to do now. My cold air feed is routed dircetly downwards to the right (as if you were standing facing the front of the car) through a few pipes which are easily movable and then it emerges in the obviously large gap (where you can see the floor if you look straight down into the engine bay to the right). I then removed a few things to get it into the front grill. I originally had it facing the floor at a 45 degree angle, and not in the front grill. Suggestions?

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by jpmad4it2 on 23 November 2003



anyone got pics of their installations?

Mines like this >>>

http://members.lycos.co.uk/pug306rallye/Clio/Viper_air_feed.jpg

 

[jpmad4it2]

yeah mine is too. does your cold air intake lie slightly on an angle in the grill i.e. its not facing directly forwards? And is the actual air box slightly positioned to the right? I couldnt get mine to do this so its positioned forwards, as i couldnt bend the original plastic pipe it slots into

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by jpmad4it2 on 23 November 2003

yeah mine is too. does your cold air intake lie slightly on an angle in the grill i.e. its not facing directly forwards? And is the actual air box slightly positioned to the right? I couldnt get mine to do this so its positioned forwards, as i couldnt bend the original plastic pipe it slots into

Its actually not like that at the minute as Ive got the pipe off, but yeah it lies at an angle...

Also the airbox is more over to the right, nearer the battery, its how they are.

 

[BRUN]

Quote: Originally posted by Rich-D on 23 November 2003

Quote: Originally posted by BRUN on 23 November 2003


buy a BMC CDA mate, a lot cheaper and just as good

Are they cheaper?!

If so, how much???

mine is £150 from our shop (Motor World) however with yours being a 2L it would need the bigger version, i think there £185, compared to the Vipers £250

this is it on my GTT engine



http://www.mbrunskill.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bmc.jpg

 

[chris172]

Heres a pic of mine...the intake is in the lower grill facing forward

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1062187342__My_Viper_1.jpg

 

[jpmad4it2]

Also the airbox is more over to the right, nearer the battery, its how they are

not mine. i couldnt get it over there. and any ideas about it getting warm? does yours get warm at all?

 

[funkimic]

surely the air going into an airbox or a viper will travel from the intake pipe and into the engine in a split second when ypur giving it some. i doubt it will collect any heat at all, whatever its made of.??

 

[jpmad4it2]

think im gonna get rid of it and replace the original filter. I plan to get a R-Sport ECU and decat next year anyway. Im not too bothered about the sound, i can get that with an exhaust next year. Too many differing opinions for my liking. And i aint noticed any difference with the viper on anyway apart from the sound.

 

[jpmad4it2]

well today i took the viper off. Went for a spin staight away, and the car is a lot lot quicker. I was so suprised. Anyway its bye bye viper tomorrow. Getting £170 for it so i cant complain. Basically its just a gimmic i think.

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by jpmad4it2 on 26 November 2003


well today i took the viper off. Went for a spin staight away, and the car is a lot lot quicker. I was so suprised. Anyway its bye bye viper tomorrow. Getting £170 for it so i cant complain. Basically its just a gimmic i think.

Now that is wierd... mine is deffo quicker with it fitted!

If you look at my RR graph in comparison to others I also have a LOT more low end grunt than the others, but not sure if thats the Viper, but were gonna do some RR tests to see.

 

[rt172]

Rich, clear your PMs. Can you let me know if you want to come to the RR again on the 6th? Cant remember which thread i asked you on.

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by Rhys on 26 November 2003



Rich, clear your PMs.

Oops...

Will do it now!

Quote: Originally posted by Rhys on 26 November 2003

Can you let me know if you want to come to the RR again on the 6th? Cant remember which thread i asked you on.

Said I was probably gonna just come & watch, then let someone else try my Viper (Boyo wanted to try it) as theres not much point me running again as nowts changed...

Unless I do some mods in between now & then.



How many slots can we have?!

 

[jpmad4it2]

Quote: Originally posted by Rich-D on 26 November 2003

Quote: Originally posted by jpmad4it2 on 26 November 2003


well today i took the viper off. Went for a spin staight away, and the car is a lot lot quicker. I was so suprised. Anyway its bye bye viper tomorrow. Getting £170 for it so i cant complain. Basically its just a gimmic i think.

Now that is wierd... mine is deffo quicker with it fitted!

If you look at my RR graph in comparison to others I also have a LOT more low end grunt than the others, but not sure if thats the Viper, but were gonna do some RR tests to see.

i seem to have more power all round. Especially at the lower end? Very strange. Anyway when i get my decat and chip i aint gonna be too bothered if i have lost power!! cant wait.

 

[powelly]

yeah a lot of ppl have said this to me when i talk about inductions kits and stuff so not sure im gonna bother?!

vix

 

[jpmad4it2]

i know you cant really tell until you get your car on the rollers, best doing it with viper, and without viper. Guess thats the only way to tell really?

 

[u33db]

Hasnt a lot of the power problems got to do with the cleaness of the filter?

On my 1.8, having a pipe facing direct to the front transported a lot of filth through to the K&N cone so the same must be true of the vipers? Has anyone actually had a look at the state of the element itself?

I have since taken the K&N cone off and put the original system back on and its much better. Ok this is a fact for valvers/willys but in my opinion i cant imagine 172 being that different! I have also been in a 172 with a viper and TBH it didnt seem any quicker than my sisters 172 with pipercross panel.

 

[jpmad4it2]

thats what im gonna do, jsut get a replacement panel filter to go in the standard airbox. Where can i get these from? Either a K&n or pipercross..cant find any on the net!?!?! Links please with part numbers neeeded!!!!!

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by jpmad4it2 on 27 November 2003

i know you cant really tell until you get your car on the rollers, best doing it with viper, and without viper. Guess thats the only way to tell really?

Well, if youve seen my RR results vs a standard 172 then youll see that although I only made an extra 3bhp @ wheels at peak, that aint the whole story...

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1069881515__Cup_vs_172_Comparison_01.jpghttp://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/gallery/full/1069881515__Cup_vs_172_Comparison_01.jpg



Were actually going back on the rollers next Saturday (6th Dec) and he is gonna try my Viper on his car and see what difference it makes!

 

[u33db]

Quote: Originally posted by jpmad4it2 on 27 November 2003

thats what im gonna do, jsut get a replacement panel filter to go in the standard airbox. Where can i get these from? Either a K&n or pipercross..cant find any on the net!?!?! Links please with part numbers neeeded!!!!!

Dont think K&N do a panel element for the 172 but pipercross do - try k-tec....should be about 32 quid...