Weber Alpha Performance Kit for 16v & Williams

[Simon]

Im currently making an enquiry with a company that specialises in these kits and have asked if they can supply the kit for the 16v and Williams.

The kits costs around the £1000 mark.
Not cheap. But should give power gains of between 20 and 30 bhp on a standard engine.

So 16v would be pushing around the 160 bhp mark and Williams around 170 to 175 bhp.

With decat pipe and Stainless Exhaust system what should that bump it upto?

Any then with uprated cams and head what do you reckon?

Cheers,

Si.

 

[Simon]

Example power gains. Look at the Torque Curve increase.

http://www.webcon.co.uk/newitems/images/peugeotpowercurvelarge.jpg

 

[Man-Chun]

I havent much experience with carbs since my Astra 1.3 days. What are these carbs like?. And how about a Clio172 version

Chun.

 

[Nick Read]

I would have thought a decat pipe, performance exhaust etc would be prerequisites for using the Alpha system. Power gains seen with Alpha induction would probably only be 20-30bhp *with* the exhaust system sorted.

Its no good being able to whack a decent inlet charge in if you cant get it out again quick enough! Which is why engines running forced induction can get away with such huge exhausts.

 

[Nick Read]

Once youve sorted the inlet though, head and cam work would really start to give you a lot of power. On a standard 16v head , a pair of Piper 270 cams (the fairly mild fast road profile) will give around 15bhp and with a the head and exhaust manifold gas-flowed, along with a proper chip and verniers to dial it all in, youre looking at an easy 30bhp extra.

 

[BenR]

its all about flow and not speed. As i mentioned many times, all you are doing is increasing the VE (volumetric efficiency) or the ability to fill the cylinders to 100% which is hard. Getting 100BHP per ltr is hard work, granted not as hard on a 16V as an 8V. On an 8V such as the 205 as indicated, at any given volume of air sucked in therough the inlet port, will be moving faster than on a 16V engine. This means at low RPM an 8Vs VE is higher than a 16V hence the old fact that 8Vs have more torque lower down. But at higher rpms. 8Vs cant flow gas as well as 16V engines can so loose out on top end power. With the 1.8 16V, all the mods (weber alpha, full race exhaust and manifold, flowed and shot peened (not polished as this doesnt work as well due to localised turbulance) ports and wild cam) will give you about 105-110 bhp per ltr or maybe 185-200BHP. However, the f7p engine has very poor torque and this will still be evident on the modified engine. Hope this helps to clear things up.

 

[cliocup]

Let us all know when you get a reply about the weber alpha kit.

Does it come with all the bits you need or do you have to get manifolds and other bits and pieces separately?

Is there clearance in front of the rad to get it all in. Not a lot of space in an F7-p

 

[m@thew]

do you have a link to their site?

 

[Simon]

The url is : http://www.webcon.co.uk/

Apparently the kit for the Vauxhall 150 bhp engine (one fitted to old GTE 16vs) takes the BHP upto 180 on std car !

The kits they do come with all the bits such as intake manifolds, etc.

Lets hope they can do a kit for the Clio. Im not sure about space though at the front. The std. inlet manifold looks fairly deep however the webers with airfilters will jut out quite a bit. I know that Hill Power have fitted throttle bodies to a Clio but Im sure they had to lengthen the front of the car or something, am I right here, does anyone know what they did?
Could probably use carbs with trumpets pointing up (downdraught) with airfilters on top rather than sidedraught carburettors. Would have to cut a hole in the bonnet though to fit I would have thought. Put a scoop or something there to capture cool air!!

How much would it cost to have the head modified and to buy the cams do you think?

With all this extra power what brakes and suspension would you guys recommend to fit and how much do you reckon these would cost?

Cheers,

Simon

 

[BenR]

if the carbs are direct to head like the throttle bodies would be, then there should be enough space to run them with no trumpets. You could fashion up an airbox out of fibreglass and got a copy in carbon, then you wouldnt need trumpets and the cold air feed could be attatched.
brakes are up to you, check the post (BRAKE!!!!!) for standard caliper use, or you can use the willwood fourpots (billet) witch come without discs for 800 quid, suspension is up to you, avo coilovers are real good value, 450 quid all round.

 

[Nick Read]

Gas flowing a head is usually £300 to £500 depending on who you go to. Cams (on a 16v) can be had for £350 as a kit including chip from Piper.

The Hill Power throttle bodied Williams had four forward-facing sidedraught inlets with a single long filter element over the whole lot.

The grille had been modded with an aluminium tray went from the top of the bumper to the bottom edge of the throttle body arrangement. It therefore scooped up air that normally would have gone through the radiator, directing it straight into the throttle bodies and also acted as a heat shield over the radiator. Not a bad idea and I can see it would probably work pretty well. It wouldnt need too much modification to mod this into a complete aluminium airbox around the 4 tbs with only the one opening at the front grille.

 

[Ben j]

so hill power charge more than piper?

 

[BenR]

but headwork and timing cams is an artform. Hill power can, if they do, charge more becasue thay have tons of experience with it. If you went to a random garge the didnt specialise in renaults, they wouldnt know how much to remove and what sort of finish to put in the ports. Hill power knows exactly how much to remove, optimum angles for flow, and what works best. I bet hill power could get more out of the engine for the same work.

 

[Nick Read]

Hill Power are still the cheapest and best. Does anyone else know a Renault specialist (or in fact any garage) who will port and polish the head and the manifolds, change the cambelt, swap the cams over for fast road jobs and fit Vernier pulleys, hook up a chip to suit all the mods and dial it all in with the Verniers, including all the mucking about with draining fluids, moving radiator etc and dismantling half the engine bay?

I doubt youll find anywherer wholl do the whole job for £1500 - and thats all up; that pays for all the parts as well, eg head gasket, new head bolts, manifold gasket etc things that a lot of people forget when they think about getting head work done.

The parts on their own are gonna be just over a grand when you really take some time to think about all the consumables that are needed (gaskets, coolant, oil, bolts) as well as the obvious things (cam kit, verniers, chip).

Its a lot of money, but I cant see how Hill Power actually make any profit on it!

 

[Dave Hester]

Youve got a good point there Nick, If I had a spare £1500 I would certainly be treating myself to a few extra horses!

 

[N.D.Hill]

Just to clear up a few points on the throttle body set up. Because of the limited space under the bonnet of a clio 16v we have designed our own inlet manifold for t/bods, the bit between the t/bod and the head. The air inlet to the throttles is as described and does have a heat shield over the rad, this however is a special rad that we have made which is a fair bit shorter than std but wider to give a slightly larger coolant volume. With the t/bod conversion we do extensive head modificatins because of gas flow and speed this is to ensure that the engine can produce torque from low revs this however is not cheap.

 

[BenR]

is torque quite bad because at low revs the air speed is low and the bore of the t/bodies are quite large?