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172 Cup Track/Fast Road car.



NorthloopCup

ClioSport Moderator
Used to do a fair bit in it before ITB's - Anglesey, brands hatch twice, nurburgring, rockingham.
But then the ITB's went on and my girlfriend quit her job to go back to uni and money was really tight - so I've done Anglesey again with James (bigash), half a day at Donington and Cadwell.

That's what really bothers me the most - all that money gone into ITB's and the brand new KW's on it and 4 pots and I've barely used it.
It's such a capable car.

I'd love to be able to keep it - but having all that money in a track car means my daily/weekend car is a boring Passat Tdi and I want something more fun.
I am kinda tempted to just flog the Passat and get a DC2 integra though - but having 2 really quick impractical cars seems a bit daft lol

I drive a mk5 1.6 golf match as my daily drive and tbh I'm glad I do!! The Clio as much fun as it is, would boil my urine if I had to drive it on a daily basis! I like the comfort and the gadgets of the golf to much as well! Cup is just a toy really.

The lad over the road has a mugen civic type r and iirc the dc5 teg has the same engine and box? It's a proper rapid car! Selling up and going for a dc2 or a dc5 is definitely something I'd consider. I'd have a civic type r, but it would have to be the ek jdm type r. The later ones never really did anything for me tbh. Them little v tecs have a lot of potential as well compared to the f4r.
 
  Clio 172
Why not just sell the engine and put a standardish lump back in, that'll free up some pennies and you can keep the car...just an idea.
 
Right screw it - can't do it.

If I sell the Clio now just because I can't afford track days at the moment I'll be crying next year when I've got a load of spare cash.

I'm going to cover her back up - over winter refresh the engine and fit a diff and some better tyres.
For now I'm gonna sell the Passat TDi I have and buy an EP3 civic or a DC2 integra - that way I can have some weekend coastal blasts this year without having to get rid of the Clio :D
 
  182 Cup
Right screw it - can't do it.

If I sell the Clio now just because I can't afford track days at the moment I'll be crying next year when I've got a load of spare cash.

I'm going to cover her back up - over winter refresh the engine and fit a diff and some better tyres.
For now I'm gonna sell the Passat TDi I have and buy an EP3 civic or a DC2 integra - that way I can have some weekend coastal blasts this year without having to get rid of the Clio :D

Thats the way, dc2 would get my vote!
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Right screw it - can't do it.

If I sell the Clio now just because I can't afford track days at the moment I'll be crying next year when I've got a load of spare cash.

I'm going to cover her back up - over winter refresh the engine and fit a diff and some better tyres.
For now I'm gonna sell the Passat TDi I have and buy an EP3 civic or a DC2 integra - that way I can have some weekend coastal blasts this year without having to get rid of the Clio :D

Whats wrong with your clio for coastal blasts?

Its still a pretty basic spec, so its not like you need to worry about wearing out forged slipper pistons or a gearbox ending up full of plate diff swarf etc, I would have thought how it was currently was fine for any sort of "blast" on the road.

That said Teg's are great, if thieves hadnt gutted mine I'd still have it, although TBH it was FAR less practical than your clio is, lol.
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
I drive a mk5 1.6 golf match as my daily drive and tbh I'm glad I do!! The Clio as much fun as it is, would boil my urine if I had to drive it on a daily basis! I like the comfort and the gadgets of the golf to much as well! Cup is just a toy really.

The lad over the road has a mugen civic type r and iirc the dc5 teg has the same engine and box? It's a proper rapid car! Selling up and going for a dc2 or a dc5 is definitely something I'd consider. I'd have a civic type r, but it would have to be the ek jdm type r. The later ones never really did anything for me tbh. Them little v tecs have a lot of potential as well compared to the f4r.

The early B18 vtec engines are a mega spec for the money you can get them at now, solid lifters, 9Krpm capability, LSD as standard etc.
 
Whats wrong with your clio for coastal blasts?

Its still a pretty basic spec, so its not like you need to worry about wearing out forged slipper pistons or a gearbox ending up full of plate diff swarf etc, I would have thought how it was currently was fine for any sort of "blast" on the road.

That said Teg's are great, if thieves hadnt gutted mine I'd still have it, although TBH it was FAR less practical than your clio is, lol.

Well maybe ok for coastal blast. My mates are mostly up North and it's the sitting on motorway in uncomfy seats with no music that I hate. By the time I get there I'm too grumpy to do anything lol

I did consider putting a stereo in it again and some recliners.
I dunno. For now it's staying and I'm hoping to swap the passat for a dc2

It actually works out well as I want an estate passat anyway next year so can hoon a dc2 around for a year and do more to Clio then sell the dc2 next year and get an estate :D
 
  172 cup, Impreza P1
For tunes on long journeys I just use my iPad and some headphones. Also kept my old seats to be a little more comfortable on these journeys too.

Sounds like you really want a dc2 so don't let me talk you out of it. :nono:
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Recaros and a radio and it would be 99% as good on track and about 500% better for long journeys.

Or as said, iPhone and headphones also fine in comfy seats on long journeys.

Stop trying to make it all "because race car" just for a few trackdays and put it to a spec that suits what you use it for the rest of the time too.
 
  172 cup, Impreza P1
Recaros and a radio and it would be 99% as good on track and about 500% better for long journeys. Or as said, iPhone and headphones also fine in comfy seats on long journeys. Stop trying to make it all "because race car" just for a few trackdays and put it to a spec that suits what you use it for the rest of the time too. ​

Sumed it up!
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Why not just sell the engine and put a standardish lump back in, that'll free up some pennies and you can keep the car...just an idea.

Other than the bodies it is a totally 100% standard engine anyway isnt it?

I thought he had literally just bolted the bodies onto the original engine and left it at that?
 
^ Yup

I must admit selling my old recaros for fixed buckets was a bit daft - they were seriously comfy!
I'm currently thinking a BTB exhaust with sports cat to quieten it down - sell the Group N, buy some recaros again and sell the buckets, swap the suede wheel for a leather one and put an ipod stereo back in the glovebox

Like you say it should still be 99% as good on track.
I have a bit of an "all or nothing" issue (i'm sure you haven't noticed lol) :(
 
Right screw it - can't do it. If I sell the Clio now just because I can't afford track days at the moment I'll be crying next year when I've got a load of spare cash. I'm going to cover her back up - over winter refresh the engine and fit a diff and some better tyres. For now I'm gonna sell the Passat TDi I have and buy an EP3 civic or a DC2 integra - that way I can have some weekend coastal blasts this year without having to get rid of the Clio :D

GOOD MAN!

No more thoughts keeping me up all night now lol ;)
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
^ Yup

I must admit selling my old recaros for fixed buckets was a bit daft - they were seriously comfy!
I'm currently thinking a BTB exhaust with sports cat to quieten it down - sell the Group N, buy some recaros again and sell the buckets, swap the suede wheel for a leather one and put an ipod stereo back in the glovebox

Like you say it should still be 99% as good on track.

Sounds a good option.


I have a bit of an "all or nothing" issue (i'm sure you haven't noticed lol) :(

TBH no not even vaguley as yours seemed like a massive compromise to me anyway, it might look a bit like a racecar, but the reality is that it has no real power, no diff for handling, not geared suitably for track etc, you have just made it an uncomfortable car that still isnt even actually very quick.
If it was 230bhp and diff'd with a low final drive, that would seem "all or nothing" and I would then see a huge amount of point in the car as it would be so awesome on track, but to make it just a tiny bit better on track while ruining it on the road just leaves you in the terrible middle ground that so many people end up in.
 
Nope mine were Recaro Speeds

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They were absolutely lush but cost £1200

I had them in my 106 GTi and then in the Clio - but when I got stuck on "must make track car" I flogged them.
Regret it tbh.
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
LMFAO yeah.. it had no problem keeping up with James' race car at Anglesey last year but I see what you mean :p

(stop trying to wind me up)

Im not trying to wind you up, and james car last year was a complete shed, so I dont really see what keeping up with it proves besides that TDF couldnt build a clio even when given 40K+.

I was just being totally honest, you've done nothing significant to improve your cars performance on track besides bolt some coilovers and bodies on, so its by no means an all out hardcore trackday weapon, in fact far far from it, but at the same time its almost as unpleasant as it would be if it actually was a good race spec car.

So you have ended up with a car that in terms of FWD hatches is basically 8/10 on the track and 4/10 on the road, which is a terrible place to end up with from a clio 172 which IMHO from the factory is 7/10 on the track and 8/10 on the road (9/10 if you have a FF one with aircon and cruise etc)

If you had the bodies, a quiet exhaust, a quaiffe diff, and comfy seats and a radio it would be BETTER on track than it is now and would be almost as good on the road as a standard car, and that is what you should have done with it IMHO for what you appear to want to use it for.

If you take my advice and do that, you will have a car that you still enjoy on track (more in fact) but that you enjoy on the road as well, but feel free to ignore over 20 years of experience and learning from my own mistakes when I did similarly stupid things and spend the next ten or more years learning the hard way instead. lol
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Live and learn

Aha, someone else who made another typical example of a car with all the bits that make it unpleasant like stripped and caged etc, but without even having the important bits like a quaiffe diff to make it genuinely good on track.

So many people building EXACTLY the same car again and again on here and all ending up unhappy with it!



Where as what people should do is do the bits that matter on track and give no downside on the road like a quaiffe diff first, not the bits that look dramatic in forum threads but actually make almost naff all difference to how much fun it is on track and ruin it on the road like stripping it out and fitting a cage etc.
 
Im not trying to wind you up, and james car last year was a complete shed.

I was just being totally honest, you've done nothing significant to improve your cars performance on track besides bolt some coilovers and bodies on, so its by no means an all out hardcore trackday weapon, in fact far far from it, but at the same time its almost unpleasant as it would be if it actually was a good race spec car.

Except bushes, arb, geo, steering overhaul, 4pots, -150kg in weight, roll cage, chassis stiffening, and added 25bhp.
Donington lap time of 1:31 in the wet - on worn road tyres. Looking at last years tin top timing that's competitive even without a diff.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. You don't need 280bhp to be quick on track. I agree I should have fitted a diff by now but it's next on the list.

So you have ended up with a car that in terms of FWD hatches is basically 8/10 on the track and 4/10 on the road, which is a terrible place to end up with from a clio 172 which IMHO from the factory is 7/10 on the track and 8/10 on the road (9/10 if you have a FF one with aircon)

They REALLY aren't - even before the cage was fitted and the new coilovers at the renaultsport day at Brands Hatch there was only 1 other car quicker than mine - the standard 172/182's and 197/200's were no-where close. Even the megane 250 was struggling to keep up.

If you put a standard 172 cup against mine on a track - it's gonna get destroyed.

If you had the bodies, a quiet exhaust, a quaiffe diff, and comfy seats and a radio it would be BETTER on track than it is now and would almost as good on the road as a standard car, and that is what you should have done with it IMHO for what you appear to want to use it for.

Now that bit I do agree with, it would be quicker thanks to the diff and a comfier place to be
 
  Evo 5 RS
Aha, someone else who made another typical example of a car with all the bits that make it unpleasant like stripped and caged etc, but without even having the important bits like a quaiffe diff to make it genuinely good on track.

So many people building EXACTLY the same car again and again on here and all ending up unhappy with it!



Where as what people should do is do the bits that matter on track and give no downside on the road like a quaiffe diff first, not the bits that look dramatic in forum threads but actually make almost naff all difference to how much fun it is on track and ruin it on the road like stripping it out and fitting a cage etc.

I wasn't unhappy with it, it did however need a diff, which was my next job but the list kept getting bigger. I wouldn't do it again though, not unless in the position to store it, which unfortunately I wasn't hence the sale. A road car is a compromise, always will be as you've clearly pointed out. Most things added will take away drivability on the road and add little in the way of enjoyment on track.

The latter comment obviously doesn't include lots of lovely boost.
 
Agree fully with you there.

I'd maybe choose some comfier seats and leave a stereo in - but I wouldn't do a track day in a non-caged car, not after getting very 2-wheeled through surtees at brands hatch!! And a sideways moment into the kitty litter on paddock hill was enough for me. Is it really worth the risk?

Not having a diff and running on road tyres is the biggest mistakes I have with the car at the moment. But I didn't want to spend £1600 on bits in a year that I wasn't doing many track days. I just made the mistake of thinking it could be a fun weekend car too and it's not.
I'm in no way dissapointed with it's performance on track at all.

No doubt I'm gonna flog the Passat, get an EP3 civic that I can have a bit of a hoon in at weekends and then instantly stop caring that the Clio is crap on the roads again lol
 
Got to remember not everyone has 10 grand to spend on a super engine build or has enough knowledge to cut a lot of the costs by doing the labour themselves.

So in my opinion ITBs are perfect for a track. Practically a simple bolt on and bolt off procedure. If the engine goes, you get a new one and bolt them straight over. Maybe with some touch ups to the map. You couldn't do that with a big engine build, you'd have wasted thousands and thousands on parts which would need replacing/rebuilding.

If I was buying a ready built track car from the start. Then this car would be my absolute ideal, and I'd have it over a boosted Clio probably any day of the week because the maintenance and repair risks/bills would be on a different level (unless you can build engines yourself, which many can't)

Light weight, good enough handling even without a diff, great brakes and more than enough power to have some fun and show up a lot of other cars on track. What else do you need. Ok a diff would finish it up nicely but as you say that's on the list..

On the road though it is a different matter. But then get a different car like your planning on doing;)
 
Last edited:
Yup - exactly why I did this.
200bhp, plenty to eat normal and rs2'd clios all day long (;)) - but if the engine goes bang it's an afternoons work to swap it all onto another engine and I'm back out

Cams would maybe get me another 10bhp, but then if the engine went it'd be a big rebuild cost again to move them into another engine.
Really not worth the hassle on a non-competing car

Diff for clio next and a little Civic/Integra type r for daily giggles :D
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Except bushes, arb, geo, steering

Basic maintainance that I do on daily drivers personally.

Look lovely but with so little power totally unrequired, look at the burpspeed car for example, decently maintained stanard brakes with good pads would be fine, but no actual harm in the 4 pots so keep them.

-150kg in weight
Less weight of course will improve lap times, which does matter in a competition although I cant see particuarly does on a trackday, you should put back some of the stuff that makes it more pleasant on the road though IMHO.

roll cage, chassis stiffening
The clio chassis is pretty stiff anyway, those things do make a little difference but its still perfectly possible to have a lot of fun without them

and added 25bhp.
Indeed, like I said you have bolted on some bodies, that does help on track

Donington lap time of 1:31 in the wet - on worn road tyres. Looking at last years tin top timing that's competitive even without a diff.
I suspect their wet was a lot more wet than yours TBH mate, bit silly comparing wet laps from different days, but if its a trackday car are laptimes the b-all and end-all anyway?


I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. You don't need 280bhp to be quick on track.
Well it helps in terms of meaning you can enjoy the more mild corners, but I agree that its not a requirement so god knows why you think I have said it is, that certainly isnt what I typed, I love driving the mrs car on track and thats still a perfect road car.

I agree I should have fitted a diff by now but it's next on the list.
Yes, its a total no brainer in that it improves track performance and yet if you go for a quaiffe has NO downside as a road car.
The mrs daily is getting one too at some point for that reason although at the moment she wont spend the money (we go halves on everything for it as we both use it)


They REALLY aren't - even before the cage was fitted and the new coilovers at the renaultsport day at Brands Hatch there was only 1 other car quicker than mine - the standard 172/182's and 197/200's were no-where close. Even the megane 250 was struggling to keep up.
With 25bhp more of course you are going to be a bit quicker on track, as I said the bodies are a good mod as if mapped correctly they dont ruin it on the road.
The way you keep banging on about laptimes rather than how much fun you have though, you sound more like you think your clio is a race car just cause it kept up with a badly built one and beats some road cars, I think if you went out now against some actual race cars you'd soon spot the difference though TBH
You've made some good improvements like the coilovers and bodies and to upgrade the brakes (although TBH better pads would have done 90% of the good at 25% of the cost) and Im not saying to get rid of any of that, just sack off the god awful noisey exhaust that doesnt improve performance over a decent quiet one, and put some basic creature comforts back in, and it will still do as well on track but without being horrid on the road, and obviously fit a diff, I really cant understand why anyone would be silly enough to spend thousands of pounds on a trackday clio without one! I can only assume you have never driven a clio in the wet with one? As once you have you will never go back :)




Now that bit I do agree with, it would be quicker thanks to the diff and a comfier place to be
Most of what you have done is ok, its really not that far from being a decent all rounder.
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Each to there own though chip. People are free to make their own mistakes and learn from them.

Indeed, but TBH in my own experience it makes a lot of sense to talk to people who have been there and done that and got the t-shirt and learned from it and then that way you can cut out some of the mistakes along the way and get more fun for the same effort.
 
  Evo 5 RS
Throttle bodies are a great way of stringing more power from an engine WHILST conforming to certain regs if you're racing. I don't think now, from learning that there is enough of a jump in strain on components to cross out a cheap low pressure build as a decent alternative to throttle bodies. I have a soft spot for ITBS though, but they don't make a whole lot of sense on a road car. If not only because of the servicing intervals. It's not a massive pain rebalancing, but should probably get the map checked now and again too.

If I wanted a faster car for road and track, with only logic involved, and it had to be a mk2 Clio. I'd go with a low pressure build and a diff.
 
I will always disagree on the 4 pots - they weigh less than half the old brakes and the drop in unsprung mass was noticeable on the handling and turn in side of things. I just think most people choke at the £1200 cost for them.

Diff was always on the cards - just was waiting for the engine or gearbox to pop as an excuse to build a diff'd gearbox and swap it all over - but it's never gone bang lol

As for lap times vs fun - yes ermmmm well. I do enjoy beating my own lap times and I've never heard anyone go faster on track and have less fun ;)
 
  Evo 5 RS
4 pots are awesome but you need the right pads to boot. They're few and far between on the wilwood calipers. I don't really rate Mintex pads which seems to be the go to option on the Wilwood fitments
 
  182/RS2/ Turbo/Mk1
Got to remember not everyone has 10 grand to spend on a super engine build or has enough knowledge to cut a lot of the costs by doing the labour themselves.

Agreed totally, and im not suggesting big power for anyone on a trackday car, it really isnt needed, but Phil was saying his was "all or nothing" so I was just pointing out that actually it isnt, as an all or nothing car would have big power and a decent gearbox, not a cheap and cheerful (VERY sensible) spec totally stanard engine with bodies.



So in my opinion ITBs are perfect for a track. Practically a simple bolt on and bolt off procedure. If the engine goes, you get a new one and bolt them straight over. Maybe with some touch ups to the map. You couldn't do that with a big engine build, you'd have wasted thousands and thousands on parts which would need replacing/rebuilding.
Agreed totally, hence the car that me and the mrs trackday the most is exactly that (well I added some supertech to increase reliablity and some ARPs, but that is literally just a weekends work and 600 quid in bits)

If I was buying a ready built track car from the start. Then this car would be my absolute ideal, and I'd have it over a boosted Clio probably any day of the week because the maintenance and repair risks/bills would be on a different level (unless you can build engines yourself, which many can't)
Yeah if you want cheap and cheerful the bolt on mods on a standard engine are a good idea IMHO, Im not telling Phil to boost his clio, just to fit a diff and a quieter exhaust and some comfortable but still reasonably supportive seats.


Light weight, good enough handling even without a diff, great brakes and more than enough power to have some fun and show up a lot of other cars on track. What else do you need. Ok a diff would finish it up nicely but as you say that's on the list..
On track im sure its great fun, the problem is that he says he wants it for long road journeys too, and for that it sucks so he should just do as I suggest and fit some comfy seats and a quieter exhaust, it wont take anything away from it on track really and it will just make it nicer on the road.


On the road though it is a different matter. But then get a different car like your planning on doing;)
He plans on doing a different thing every day TBH, at least if he makes his clio nicer on the road while still being quite good on track it will suit a bigger percentage of his constant mood swings.
 


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