172 Cup Track/Fast Road car.

[Cup_Phil]

I'm a bit confused by that

Firstly I'm 99% sure the ones with speedline embossed are 2020's not 2118's. They look IDENTICAL but they are supposedly made from magnesium alloy, lighter and come in ET48.5
2118's were made in ET43 for palmer sport and have no center caps - and ET37 for standard road cars and had center caps

Also I don't think the cup racers ran ET48.5's mate - my ET43's rub on the back as they sit too far in. From what I've read they ran 10mm spacers and stud conversions.
I'm not sure what palmersport ran - the cup racers I've seen all had standard looking brakes.

Also depending on who you ask they say the cup racers started off on magnesium alloys for strength but they all cracked so they switched to the palmersport spec 2118's - certainly that's what Fred said anyway

I think you'll definitely need 10mm spacers with them to get over any brakes. And the rears I'd be impressed if they turn - mine rub on the inner arch LOL

I've got 20mm spacers for the front and 15mm spacers for the rear on the way to bring mine out.

 

[MG cup]

Yeah they are 2118's I have it stamped on my current set at home look at this for refence also

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?658272-Clio-2-3-cup-parts&p=8947651#post8947651,

2020's have a slightly thicker spoke at the outer edge and have a different dish and are made of magnesium as you have said.

I actually called Speedline to validate these claims as I could'nt find this fitment either untill I heard of some more racers been broken.

Im taking all my information from the European guys that have ran cup racers, slightly different series to the uk as they never ran phase 1 clios, they all waited for the phase 2 to come out the year later so were all genuine phase 2's with the updated g/box etc etc. The europeans got all the latest parts first and even had parts that uk never had like evo 3 dampers which didn't get used as the series ended in uk before europe.

I know for sure they fit over standard brakes at front with no rubbing in arches have got pictures in my thread that shows , completely different geomatery to a road car remember. Cup racers did run standard brakes as far as I know aswell in the uk but went through a hell a lot of disks and pads due to being hammered. Some series like the german one actually ran an alcon caliper further in to the evolutions of the car.

You have got me worried about the rears scrubbing now :S, I never fitted the wheels on the rear and lowered to the ground as I didn't have time. Easy solution if it does tho is to fit a plate behind the stub axle to desired thickness, allows any thickness and takes stress of the bearings that spacers can cause. ( will need it with slicks fitted)

 

[Cup_Phil]

Ahhh I guess they weren't a UK supplied wheel then as the UK cars by the sounds of it got the normal 2118's

Sorry completely forgot you're running the full cup wishbones, hubs etc.. aren't you - they sit further out than standard so I guess you'll be ok
Rear definitely rubs on mine - don't forget the cup racers will have run camber shims - so maybe they were 10mm shims with extra camber to bring the wheels out

It's all a bloody guessing game with the cup racers - every one you see is different lol
The standard calipers were "ok" but really suffered from heat with me - I suppose with deflector plate and cup air intakes they might have been a bit better, but didn't see the point when 4pots are easily available

The alcon setup from the ford racing puma is supposed to be really good - a lad I know was trying to get some brackets made up to run those as they are easily small enough to fit under 15's - Might be worth considering as you can pick them up quite cheaply 2nd hand

 

[MG cup]

Yeah they were UK supplied but not in magazines etc, they had to be asked for from speedline.

There's definately a lot of confusion with racers as there was evolution of parts as they went on, Im glad its just the suspension I have as it would been a nightmare trying to tune with different electrics, gearbox etc etc

Yeah there is a set of those on ebay I seen tonight for 500 which I thought was good considering the price TDF charge for theirs.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I don't really understand the price for the TDF setup. I know Alcon's are built better than wilwoods - but I could never justify spending the price of a 172 cup on just a set of brakes. I'm pretty sure they won't perform in the real world any better than the setup I've got

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

I run standard calipers on mine but I use HD discs and Pagid blue pads and it certainly stops the car. I can see the point of wilwoods but couldn't justify the expense.

 

[mark123]

I had a set of cup racer wheels that were ET48.5, I measured them.

I just decided to use the std 15" oz f1s as they are 10 a penny so it makes having many sets of the same wheels easy.

 

[MG cup]

I had a set of cup racer wheels that were ET48.5, I measured them.

I just decided to use the std 15" oz f1s as they are 10 a penny so it makes having many sets of the same wheels easy.

Yeah they are a bit but I have managed to get two sets for good money that I will use for dry running and will use willy wheels for wet hopefully (depending fitment)

I need good strong wheels for Knockhill as jumping the kerbs is the quickest way around.

Once mine is fully built and geometry set I will know what I can get away with and buy off the shelf jobbies when needed.

How do you find the f1's strength? do you find yourself or others having to balance regulary while racing?

A lot of sets you see going are buckled, that's why I avoided.

Oh and sorry Phil for cluttering your thread.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Don't think we have one straight one, but they are fine.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I don't mind track car discussions on my thread lol but a bit more on topic...

A lad came over Saturday morning and took my old brake setup for his track car, left me a bit of dosh and I needed some alloy wheel cleaner so popped into town to pick some up.. Came back with this!!

More spending by Phil_Barker, on Flickr

DOH!!! Ended up buying a G220 machine polisher, a "paint renovation kit" (because I didn't want to start at the deep end with cutting compounds etc.. and a ton of other stuff
So saturday about 11am I got cracking giving the old girl a winter clean - finished about 7pm absolutely knackered but I'm quite impressed how well she came up!

Clean - September 2012 by Phil_Barker, on Flickr

Clean - September 2012 by Phil_Barker, on Flickr

Clean - September 2012 by Phil_Barker, on Flickr

Clean - September 2012 by Phil_Barker, on Flickr

Clean - September 2012 by Phil_Barker, on Flickr

Also did a mod that I've been putting off for ages and cut my bonnet skin out to give the bodies more clearance. I'm ordering 120mm trumpets soon as my 90mm's have seen better days and I have the space to go bigger

Bonnet mod by Phil_Barker, on Flickr

Took a none-iPhone shot of the new brakes as well.. you know just coz it's nice to get my dslr out again lol

New Stoppers by Phil_Barker, on Flickr

 

[MG cup]

Looking good Phil, love the xenon's on the cups. Adds a bit to the front end IMO.

Detailing gets addictive when good results are had.

Good tip for you when using a buff, remove any plastics that pop out easy like the grills and fog surrounds, makes life easier. Tape everything else that's bare plastic, polish never comes out.

Is that sunstrip from eBay?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah the black plastics are a bit wrecked anyway due to years of getting autoglym on them lol

The roof still has some stubborn water marks / tree sap - so I'm gonna buy some new pads for the polisher and some cutting compounds and do it properly in a few weeks - will mask up all the plastics etc...
Then probably treat the plastics afterwards with gtechniq

I used to be really into cleaning cars but this one gets abused so much I've neglected it a bit.
Also it needs a few bits touching up (door, front bumper, rear bumper) and the bonnet is now dented from cutting the backing out of it LOL
Oh well.. race car haha

 

[MG cup]

Bonnets are made of crepe paper, thinnest of s**t.

Without looking threw your whole thread again, what depth back plate & filter do you have fitted? interested in room to bonnet.

Really tempted to go for 120's before I map mine ( not cheap tho)

Sunstrip? lol

 

[Cup_Phil]

The back plate IIRC is about 65mm - it's a reverie carbon one. The pipercross filter I THINK is 90mm - it's the biggest one they do C603D or something
So overall filter length is 145mm - and the filter fit fine even with the bonnet uncut - but the bonnet pressed against it slightly.
I'm sure 120mm trumpets are gonna fit fine

Sorry - the sunstrip I drew up in Illustrator and got a mate to cut it out of white vinyl, then just chucked it on a cheap black sunstrip

 

[NorthloopCup]

Bonnets are made of crepe paper, thinnest of s**t.

They also flap faster than a hummingbirds wings at 140+ with all the strengthening ribs removed! Lol! Mine was making a humming noise when we were at those speeds in Belgium! Lol

 

[Cup_Phil]

Seeing yours was the reason why I decided to leave most of the X in lol
If I can be bothered I might neaten up the old bits of ribs, get the whole thing painted top and bottom after having the dents removed
It's more likely though that the car will end up stickered up next year and I'll have forgotten about the dents as I hammer it around the 'ring lol

 

[NorthloopCup]

Seeing yours was the reason why I decided to leave most of the X in lol
If I can be bothered I might neaten up the old bits of ribs, get the whole thing painted top and bottom after having the dents removed
It's more likely though that the car will end up stickered up next year and I'll have forgotten about the dents as I hammer it around the 'ring lol

Yeah it was a bit of trial and error with mine tbh. I also thought about getting mine painted and the dents removed but I can't really be arsed!

8:39 is your ring target time! That's on road tyres as well! Pulled that out the bag this weekend. Well made up!

15's and r888's next year!!

 

[Martin.]

In have, plenty of times, spoken to 2 people this week alone who've had it. MASSIVELY over rated and over priced pads.

I agree. I've had fade quite often on track with mine. Running Brembo HC discs, ATE fluid, Goodridge Lines too.

 

[Fletcher]

Cup looks great Phil. Way too clean for a track car mind

 

[v16daf]

Looks really tidy! Love the xenon's!!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah it was a bit of trial and error with mine tbh. I also thought about getting mine painted and the dents removed but I can't really be arsed!

8:39 is your ring target time! That's on road tyres as well! Pulled that out the bag this weekend. Well made up!

15's and r888's next year!!

That's a hell of a time. Last time I went I had full leather interior and the car was standard other than eibach springs. Did a 9:38 ish but had to slow down for an accident in the middle.

When I go next year I really want to be in the low 8's - should be on r888's and with 200bhp and a diff it should be do-able

Cup looks great Phil. Way too clean for a track car mind

Yeah - I'll correct that at Donington soon enough lol

 

[Silent_Scone]

Nice work, why are you on the prowl for an Omex loom mate? Thought that was all in and done?

 

[Cup_Phil]

It is - but the loom on mine is shite. Loads of bits too long.
I've got a slight misfire and looking at the wideband when it does it - it goes lean. So I think either a faulty injector or a bad connector on the loom
I just thought if I could pick up another Omex 600 loom cheaply enough I might try it to see if it fixes it before spending £100+ on injectors

 

[Silent_Scone]

ah ok, mine could do with cutting down anyway so you'd be no better off. I went for the R26 injectors on mine, wasn't really a necessity but they were running 99% duty on the limiter. Feels so much better to drive now with a fresh set anyway. They're not cheap though

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah I must admit if I end up replacing injectors I would like to go to the R26 ones - but I'd need to get the car remapped again then

 

[neil a]

Phil im going to be running Pico injectors in mine, so I could send my standard ones down to try and see if it cures the miss if you want.

 

[Cup_Phil]

That's really kind of you mate - I'd really appreciate it

It could well be injectors - the ones I got with the Jenveys didn't work so I'm on my Cup injectors but they've done 116k lol

 

[Cup_Phil]

UPDATE

Right.. it's been a weird few months - I've been very VERY close to selling the Clio as I've been using it as a daily commuter to work and sick to death of being deaf, numb and it kangarooing through traffic at 15mph...

However after a bit of thinking, planning and advice from mates - I've done the sensible thing and bought a daily/tow car

VW Passat 1.9 130 TDi 4motion

The 4wheel drive system is epic, it has full leather heated seats, loads of toys, comfy as hell, 45mpg... lovely

So now I need to get my towing licence done. Not gonna buy a trailer to start with - just rent one.

Plans for the clio now involve binning the stereo, electric windows, glass windows, electric mirrors etc..
Plexi windows, roof scoop, minimise the wiring, maybe fiberglass bonnet and boot if budget stretches. The 2118's are getting sold as they are a bit too heavy and fancy for a track car, gonna try and source some TD 1.2's in white with R888's on... the oreca exhaust and sports cat is going - having a 2.5" manifold back system custom made with an outward rolled tail pipe cut into the bumper. Might swap the seats for some with some side head support too...

Engine will be getting 120mm trumpets, new injectors, new omex loom (bringing the omex into the car), ARP bolts and a quick freshen up on the map

Plans for next year are to keep it a track car, no MOT or tax or insurance to worry about - gonna do 6-10 full track days and take it to spa/ring for bit - see how I get on with it. If I can get some money saved up I then want to enter either sprints or tin tops year after

 

[MG cup]

Nice one Phil, on the look out for a tow car myself, have been advised a few times to get a passat as they have a good towing capacity i beleive? I think I'm settled on Accord 2.2cdti sport or a transit so I can sleep in it also.

Good choice to take it off the road it means you have time to evolve the car without worrying about tax/insurance running out. Do you have space to keep it sheltered. Some nice mods planned but do you think the larger exhaust is really needed, given that you will have to be mindfull of the Db levels on track days, can't see the group n oreca exhaust being restrictive on your engine spec, would like to know your view or others on that.

ps, first dibs on the cat, you know the front 172 pipe on the oreca is 2.5" already, decat back that is 2.25" iirc.

 

[Cup_Phil]

My oreca is the cat back 2.25" version - I had a 2.25" sports cat made up for it

I don't know if I need to go up to 2.5" but I really want a custom exhaust. I want something that sits higher up and cut into the bumper and ideally quieter than the Oreca as it does make my ears ring a bit on track after a few hours. I don't need to run the sports cat any more as it wont need MOT'ing but if I decat the oreca it will be waay too loud. Thinking a custom exhaust with twin silencers is the way to go.

I looked at the Accords - nice cars. I originally wanted a Passat estate so I could sleep in it too, but the 4wd estates all seem to come with cloth - and the heated leather seats after I tried them became a must LOL. The boot on the Passat is HUGE you could easily fit 4 wheels in it and tool boxes etc... and towing capacity is 1700kg because it's 4wd. There's even a few remaps out there that take them to 170bhp/260lbs - but the thing pulls like a steam train anyway, feels like I could drive through a house with it lol

The car sits in a big garage at the back of my house with it's own alarm system hehehe so I've got all winter now to work on it in the warm

 

[Fletcher]

Plans sound good, similar to mine in terms of removing the glass etc..

I have toyed with the idea of taking mine off the road to just track it, but would miss driving it on my favourite B roads every now and again TBH.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah i'm still kinda tempted to MOT it and whack 6 months tax on for the summer days, but UK roads just piss me off these days. Too many people who drive like morons and nowhere to have any fun.

I'll see what state it's in around March when the MOT is due and see if I can be bothered lol

 

[gazwold]

Let me know regarding the 2118's mate I may be interested at the right price ;-)

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah will do mate - gonna drag the old girl out the garage on Saturday and start taking pics of everything I want rid of

I'd ideally like to do a swap for 1.2's but I can always sell the 2118's and leave her on axel stands till I find some new wheels

 

[LewisTaylor]

Phil i have some white pro race 3's in my garage, will do a deal on your 2118's? Don't know what pro race 3's weigh but they look pretty awesome. PM me if your interested.

 

[Feirny]

Phil, buy the carbon bonnet in the FS section.

I'd even pick it up for you on tuesday if it'd fit in my car

 

[Fletcher]

Phil, buy the carbon bonnet in the FS section.

I'd even pick it up for you on tuesday if it'd fit in my car

I'd buy it if I lived op north :dapprove:

 

[Feirny]

I'd buy it if I lived op north :dapprove:

LOL, you're actually a billion miles away.

 

[neil a]

Phil I think chip has a set of white 1.2's he was thinking of selling.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Cheers neil - i'll ask him

Carbon bonnet eh? *wanders off to look*