197 Cup with Recaros. Nimbus in 2012. Glacier White in 2022

[Hixle]

Lol! I <3 you.

This is the reason I didn't sell the Trophy when I was thinking about it, it's sad but I would genuinely miss it.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Lol! I <3 you.

This is the reason I didn't sell the Trophy when I was thinking about it, it's sad but I would genuinely miss it.

You would. Im taxing mine again tomorrow.

iFail at not using it.

 

[welshname]

LOL!

Always make sure I read you "new car" threads for a chuckle as they always end the same:

"New car does X better than the Trophy"
"Feels better than the Trophy"...

"I miss the Trophy"
"New car sold"

 

[Daniel]

Ffs.

This is all getting a bit boring Dave! lol.

 

[R-Sport.]

Im not so sure tbh, imho they look really average on Nimbus!!

H&R springs are a maybe, although i'd probably just get KW V1's if i were going to change the suspension at all - never really been a fan of the bouncy ride that 'just springs' tend to give.

Ironically I sold that car as well *POS*

 

[Jamie]

197 Cups have the revised ratios.

Sorry for the noob question on the 197's - what was wrong with the ratios and what is the revision? Thanks.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Sorry for the noob question on the 197's - what was wrong with the ratios and what is the revision? Thanks.

6th gear was made longer iirc, to drop cruising revs by about 500rpm - noticeable difference when cruising at motorway pace

Ffs.

This is all getting a bit boring Dave! lol.

Lol, i should just stick to BMWs tbh, just put a deposit on my 6th e46 in 18 months ...

 

[MikeLYR27]

Did you sell an e46 to by a clio to buy an e46 lol?! Amazing how some cars get you, and some dont grip you as much as you'd hoped. Nice to see a good write up on a 197 for a change rather than then its fat and crap lol! All the best with the new one mate

 

[Hixle]

Lol, i should just stick to BMWs tbh, just put a deposit on my 6th e46 in 18 months ...

LOL! 316 yeah?

 

[Sir_Dave]

So i booked a trackday on 14th November at Brands with @Cookie @TheEvilGiraffe and @Sir Nancy Flowers and naturally man maths kicked in.

Cheaper to buy a clio, then sell it, than buy brembos calipers/pads/discs/remap for the Mini ... so enter 197 Cup v2.

Pick it up on Thursday.

Chuffed with the spec tbh. Wanted a white one with speedlines/spoiler last time round, but ended up with Nimbus.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Moist.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Now picked it up.

To be honest, most of my thoughts from the 1st post are still true, although the steering now i'm used to the X5 seems far more direct/feelsome than when i was used to the Trophy/e46 M3 - i guess your opinion on a new car very much depends on what you are used to/coming from. In isolation, ie not after getting out of your 182 Trophy, this 197 Cup is a very very good car when "on it".

Being honest though, as a car, an R56/55 Mini is a FAR better thing to be in/use. The seat sits lower, the steering wheel is better placed (+ adjustable for reach/height), the dashboard/door/headlining/plastics are far less sh1t. There are different modes for throttle response/steering, it has FAR more toys to play with. By comparison, the clio just feels like a cut price Tesco Value kinda car. A decent CLubman fJCW is £10-11k though. A 197 Cup isnt.

Also, below 5k rpm my diesel mini would also show the clio a clean pair of heals lol. Plus sat at 70mph it'll do 60mpg, not 30mpg.

When the Clio FINALLY wakes up at 5k-7k rpm however, it makes perfect sense.

Sophia calls it "Daddy's racing car" 🥰 🏎️💨💨💨

 

[Sir_Dave]

Also @RSRowe what bits did you have to buy for the 200 front end, i much much prefer the look of it!

 

[RSRowe]

Also, below 5k rpm my diesel mini would also show the clio a clean pair of heals lol. Plus sat at 70mph it'll do 60mpg, not 30mpg.

I remember coming off a roundabout on the way to a trackday with my mate following me in his completely stock Transit Sport. He was completely glued to my rear bumper until at least 3rd gear.

Bonkers how slow they are really.

 

[RSRowe]

Also @RSRowe what bits did you have to buy for the 200 front end, i much much prefer the look of it!

Funny how I was replying to this before you tagged me.

It's literally just headlights and bumper. Some fettling is required for the piece of black trim which is at the bottom of the 200 headlights (if you've bought ones from a non sport car).

 

[Sir_Dave]

Funny how I was replying to this before you tagged me.

It's literally just headlights and bumper. Some fettling is required for the piece of black trim which is at the bottom of the 200 headlights (if you've bought ones from a non sport car).

Haha, it was your build threads that convinced me to buy a 197 instead of a 200, oh and this being a bargain with the Recaros/Speedlines 😝
That is useful to know - saw some mention of slam panels or something as well, but headlights/bumper and some hammering/cutting of trim is ok.
I had similar with the slow car racing though, i was in 3rd when it went from 40>70, the vw transporter probably was as well and i got dropped ffs.

 

[RSRowe]

People are adamant the difference between them is worth paying the extra money.

197 CUP is the prime track toy IMO. I really don't think the 200 steering rack is all it's made out to be, and having had both 197 CUP and 200 CUP suspension on mine, there literally is no difference between the characteristics.
The early (and even the later) 197 gearbox is also much better for track work in terms of ratios. The 200 box made for a much 'nicer' road cruiser - and we both know these aren't exactly cruising cars compared to other marques.

Finding a 200 bumper is going to be fun for you

I'll double check my parts hoard at the weekend, but I think I may have a pair of good condition 200 reflector headlights stashed away. Projectors definitely look alot better though IMO.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

That's lovely! Perfect spec in white with the Recaros, Speedlines and spoiler.

 

[Martin_172]

People are adamant the difference between them is worth paying the extra money.

197 CUP is the prime track toy IMO. I really don't think the 200 steering rack is all it's made out to be, and having had both 197 CUP and 200 CUP suspension on mine, there literally is no difference between the characteristics.
The early (and even the later) 197 gearbox is also much better for track work in terms of ratios. The 200 box made for a much 'nicer' road cruiser - and we both know these aren't exactly cruising cars compared to other marques.

Finding a 200 bumper is going to be fun for you

I'll double check my parts hoard at the weekend, but I think I may have a pair of good condition 200 reflector headlights stashed away. Projectors definitely look alot better though IMO.

Funny enough, I went from, granted, old worn 197 non cup suspension to new 200 cup suspension all round and its BONE BREAKING on the road, a few occasions I've driven hard down a backroad and questioned if I made the right choice or if I ruined it!

I then fitted a new 200 cup rack, and other than the steering feeling a little tighter which is probably more the fact the rack, rods and rod ends were new, I didn't notice much difference, but, was a no brainer given the cost when it comes with track rods and ends though while the engine was out!

The biggest thing I've noticed though, as people will have seen, I've just sold a 200 so ran the two of them at the same time, the low down grunt on the 200 under 3000rpm is night and day, I believe Renault said it was 20% more torque low down (and I think mapping was the only difference?) - so much so a remap for my 197 is next on the cards. I've had both the cars side by side too and on a full rev range pull there is nothing in it at all, they are almost identical but the 200 just has a much keener pickup low down.

 

[Touring_Rob]

So i booked a trackday on 14th November at Brands with @Cookie @TheEvilGiraffe and @Sir Nancy Flowers and naturally man maths kicked in.

Cheaper to buy a clio, then sell it, than buy brembos calipers/pads/discs/remap for the Mini ... so enter 197 Cup v2.

Pick it up on Thursday.

View attachment 1616560View attachment 1616561


Chuffed with the spec tbh. Wanted a white one with speedlines/spoiler last time round, but ended up with Nimbus.

Where my txt you whore.

*

😭

 

[RSRowe]

The biggest thing I've noticed though, as people will have seen, I've just sold a 200 so ran the two of them at the same time, the low down grunt on the 200 under 3000rpm is night and day, I believe Renault said it was 20% more torque low down (and I think mapping was the only difference?) - so much so a remap for my 197 is next on the cards. I've had both the cars side by side too and on a full rev range pull there is nothing in it at all, they are almost identical but the 200 just has a much keener pickup low down.

I believe one of the cams was different on the 200... can't remember which one it was though. But that's the differences between the 830 and 832 F4R.

Round town, I'm very much of the opinion that the 200 only feel stronger because 1st to 3rd gear are much shorter.

 

[Martin_172]

I believe one of the cams was different on the 200... can't remember which one it was though. But that's the differences between the 830 and 832 F4R.

Round town, I'm very much of the opinion that the 200 only feel stronger because 1st to 3rd gear are much shorter.

Ah didn't know that about the cam, to be fair I was the same opinion with the gearing but noticed next to no difference swapping over to a 200 box on my 197, as I wanted to soften the blow of having to change the box by at least getting an "upgrade". I went from the late 197 box to the shorter 1-3 200 box

 

[Sir_Dave]

Where my txt you whore.

* View attachment 1617962

😭

Ah feck. I blame the multi-tasking of working/looking after kids/booking trackdays/buying clios.
Just come along anyways? Can always offer some instruction to @Cookie ... will be quite easy tbh ... "just go faster terry" ...

 

[Cookie]

The key to going faster on a track is to accelerate more and brake less iirc

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

@Cookie the pedal on the far right makes car go broom broom - got it?

 

[Cookie]

@Cookie the pedal on the far right makes car go broom broom - got it?

Didn't understand instruction, bonnet now open and can't see

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Didn't understand instruction, bonnet now open and can't see

you dont need to see. downforce bro

 

[Touring_Rob]

Ah feck. I blame the multi-tasking of working/looking after kids/booking trackdays/buying clios.
Just come along anyways? Can always offer some instruction to @Cookie ... will be quite easy tbh ... "just go faster terry" ...

I've submitted a holiday form to her, I'm just waiting for a quote for the number of brownie points it will cost. If the price is right I will be there - with a helmet - offering abuse for the forgotten invite.

Occasionally you can get slots after other plebs crash etc.

 

[Cub.]

I've submitted a holiday form to her, I'm just waiting for a quote for the number of brownie points it will cost. If the price is right I will be there - with a helmet - offering abuse for the forgotten invite.

Occasionally you can get slots after other plebs crash etc.

@Cookie, you up bro.

 

[Cookie]

Rude

 

[Martin_172]

Funny enough, I went from, granted, old worn 197 non cup suspension to new 200 cup suspension all round and its BONE BREAKING on the road, a few occasions I've driven hard down a backroad and questioned if I made the right choice or if I ruined it!

I then fitted a new 200 cup rack, and other than the steering feeling a little tighter which is probably more the fact the rack, rods and rod ends were new, I didn't notice much difference, but, was a no brainer given the cost when it comes with track rods and ends though while the engine was out!

The biggest thing I've noticed though, as people will have seen, I've just sold a 200 so ran the two of them at the same time, the low down grunt on the 200 under 3000rpm is night and day, I believe Renault said it was 20% more torque low down (and I think mapping was the only difference?) - so much so a remap for my 197 is next on the cards. I've had both the cars side by side too and on a full rev range pull there is nothing in it at all, they are almost identical but the 200 just has a much keener pickup low down.

I believe one of the cams was different on the 200... can't remember which one it was though. But that's the differences between the 830 and 832 F4R.

Round town, I'm very much of the opinion that the 200 only feel stronger because 1st to 3rd gear are much shorter.

Just wanted to touch on this again, my 197 has developed a tiny intermittent misfire on part throttle. A bit of research pointed towards a loose fitting MAP sensor, I checked mine and sure enough it was loose, I replaced the orings and re fitted and the car is running WAY better low down, and feels similar to the 200 now, the 200 has a slight edge but nothing to write home about!