Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you please

[frayz]

Hey guys, im taking the 182 to the Ring soon.

This is not my first trip to the ring at all, however it will be my first in the Clio.
Ive spent alot of time there in my Impreza, but the clio is a rather different animal.

Im by my own admission a very harsh braker. I cooked my Subarus Brembos there and shot both front wheel bearings because of it. I could fade DS2500s on the road in that and i can fade my Clios brakes on the road with no trouble. In the Subaru i use AP 356mm 6pots/320mm 2 pots and Pagid RS29 pads. I love these pads but know they wouldnt work in the clio.

So far im only looking to just change the brake fluid, fit some braided lines and swap out to some Brembo HC discs and decent pads.

Ive been looking at the offerings from Carbone Lorraine, Performance Friction and DS3000s.

Please can i have some feedback from people that actually track their Clios regularly as to what the best setup is for a heavy braker. The Clios weight is different from what im used to, so could use some input.

Cheers,

Frayz

 

[LowLife.]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I can only stick my two penneth in...

I am ordering CL pads for my Turbo conversion. Meant to be pretty fcuking awesome...

 

[mr.valver]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Am extremely heavy on the old brakes, and never yet cooked my Brembo HC's and Mintex M1155's. The harder I use them the better they get.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I can only stick my two penneth in...

I am ordering CL pads for my Turbo conversion. Meant to be pretty fcuking awesome...

^until they fall apart

i guess you're not a heal & toe man, more a slam them on and pray?

problem with the more extreme pads is the dust will knacker the wheels and body work, but for true trackday people that isn't an issue, who has a pretty track car?

without seeing your driving style its hard to say, PF97's are THE BEST, but they also have shocking dust, try a DS3000 and go from there, maybe a pagid blue might suit you

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Am extremely heavy on the old brakes, and never yet cooked my Brembo HC's and Mintex M1155's. The harder I use them the better they get.

i'm a very gentle on the brakes and i was down to the back plates after 1 trackday! the wear rate on Mintex is crap IMO, shame as they offer half decent "feel" and are well priced

 

[mr.valver]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

i'm a very gentle on the brakes and i was down to the back plates after 1 trackday! the wear rate on Mintex is crap IMO, shame as they offer half decent "feel" and are well priced

I've had mine in over 8 months now and still 6mm+ left. I've only covered about 4k miles, but hard miles to say the least. Some sort of track weapon Fred, or do I just drive like a girl and think am awesome!?

 

[frayz]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I can still heel & toe Fred, however i seem to cook my brakes pretty damn quick. The RS29s get better and better the hotter you get them. Im looking for something that behaves similarly for the 182. Really not worried about dust so much as i'll just seal the wheels and then keep on top of cleaning them.
Are the 97s more agressive than the DS3000s?

 

[Aluco]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I have brembo hc's and ds3000's they stop ace. Never driven on a track though they were on the car when I bought it. The squeak a tiny bit sometimes when slowing down in traffic.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

doesn't matter how much polish you put on the wheels/car the PF dust is that bad!

CL pads - about the 6th set i've seen do this

 

[LowLife.]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Oh dear.

What's it caused by Fred?

Or are they just s**t?!

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

must be a dodgy batch i assume? no idea as i left it with the customers to sort (i don't use/supply CL stuff, so not my issue) obviously its down to how the friction material is "bonded" to the backing plate

 

[sideways danny]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I've seen EBC, Ferodo, PF, and genuine original pads do the same as that though. infact I've had EBC green stuff fal apart and fall OUT of the caliper while I've been driving. Twice.

If you're killing that kind of pad, it's time for bigger disks to get some better leverage and take the strain off the pads. more leverage = less effort = less heat

 

[mr.valver]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

These were Renault OEM pads

 

[sideways danny]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

genuine are ferodo fyi, repeated abuse causing that IMO

I think the CL's were doing that as they are so much higher friction, they produce a lot more heat. Not something many people will realise is a problem if the pads are still working and not fading

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

true it is wise to aid the cooling to the brakes, its free to do after all!

 

[shiyan]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I've done 300+ laps there and have used EBC Redstuff, Yellowstuff, CL6 and Pagid blue. They were all adequate for myself.

To be honest I'm surprised you knackered your brakes as the 'Ring is not the worst track when it comes to brake use.

Redstuff - Decent feel and braking power but noticeable fade when ambient got to 25+ degrees C

Yellowstuff - less feel but slightly more fade resistant, love the price

CL6 - much harder initial bite than the EBCs and more braking power, but generates more heat as a result (logical), so needs more cooling. Huge amount of dust that ruins your rims. One caliper seized soon after fitting these so I can't give a complete review on this pad.

Pagid blues - much better than CL6 in terms of dust, better braking power than the EBCs and more fade resistant. Only downside is the cost.

 

[CraigIrl]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Never been to the ring but drove in mondello park here which is hard in brakes and tyres as it's quite technical. No fade at all on my pagid blues and brembo max discs. Barely any wear at all to be honest. As they say you get what you pay for.

 

[frayz]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

All great feedback guys, many thanks for the input. Keep it coming.

 

[Cupman29]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I use Pagid blue's, Brembo Max discs and Motul RBF600 fluid. The brakes still get very hot (obviously) but have never faded on the 25 minute sessions I do at trackdays and I am very heavy with the brakes also.

The only thing I'll be adding for my next outing is cooling ducts from the front fogs.

 

[Chris_786]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Oh dear.

What's it caused by Fred?

Or are they just s**t?!

If you ask Ktec racing, they will tell you that the pads get too hot and it's not faulty, they will then throw your returned parts away and deny all knowledge of similar problems with other people's pads, leaving you £130+ out of pocket.

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Fred speaketh the truth, the dust off my PF97s is insane, but then so is the stopping power too!

They last a long time too, I've got the set of the Burpspeed race car, they did a whole season on them, I've done a few trackdays and they still have LOADS of life left.

 

[Dan R]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I have to agree with Fred on this one! Having done 5 trips to ring in my old Bodied 182 and 2 trips in my megane Trophy, the Carbon Lorraine pads IMO are not that great tbh and dont offer best stopping power, they destroy paint on wheels, destroy discs and i did happen to find that they actually fade quicker than just DS2500's!
I ran DS2500's on the clio for every trip and not once did i suffer brake fade! Bareing in mind i was averaging laps around the 8:35 to 8:50 so i wasnt hanging about. Ive never tried PF97's so cant comment but after changing from CL on megane back to DS2500's i would definately never go back to the Carbon Lorraines!! thats my 50 pence worth anyway, hope it helps.
Both cars had better fluid, braided lines, brembo max discs on clio and Ktec black grooved discs on megane.

 

[frayz]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Fantastic input guys. I use Motul RBF600 in the Scoob and have plenty so that will also go in the Clio. Braided lines and Brembo HCs will be there too. Just got to decide on pad choice. Thankyou all so much for good honest feedback.

 

[Inferno]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Best track pads I've used are PF97's - amazing performance. As already said though the brake dust/metal is very unfriendly to paint finishes. I never got on with Mintex 1177's. Another point worth making is that the standard 182 wheels are not great for brake cooling imo.

 

[frayz]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Just adding a little update to this thread,

I decided on Brembo HC discs, PF01 pads, Goodridge lines and RBF600 fluid.

So gave the car some lovin today.

Stiff little chassis when youre jacking these up lol

New oil/filter

Here she is parked next to "The Bomber" lol

New setup, fitted, bled and cleaned.

All ready to go

 

[Soot1e]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

After driving a much heavier car you will probably find the Clio not as bad as you thought brakewise. ^^^^At least you prepared well enough^^^^

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

NO NO NO NO NO NO AND NO!

you NEVER put copper grease on race pads EVER, clean it off (seriously)

and you MUST remove those pad shims or the pads WILL bind on when hot = bye bye expensive pads

 

[frayz]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Lol, okay Fred, consider it done

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

make sure the pads can move vertically in the pad carrier by AT LEAST 1mm

 

[Cup_Phil]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

The man knows what he's talking about

I read his guide on fitting DS2500's - removed the shims and filed the ends down a bit so they had 1-2mm play.
Took it on track and it stops on a dot. No squealing at all - been spot on for last 2 months

 

[frayz]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I know why youre saying to ditch the copperslip Fred, but ive never had a problem on any of my APs on track. Dont worry, i'll take youre advise, just saying ive never had a problem before on the Impreza. Cheers for the headsup though mate

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

well as a motorsport engineer, i know of no F1, GP2, GP3, FR2000, clip cup, WTCC, ASC, lambo, ferrari, GT, aston, WRC, rallyx, (i can go on, but i forget what i've worked on!)

NO CAR, regardless of make or model, you NEVER run copper grease on pads, END OF!

maybe a nissan micra with cheap £9 halfords pads, but not a performance car with performance pads! you name 1 car that leaves the factory with copper grease on the brake pads???????????????????

its not the 1990's, not needed anymore

 

[frayz]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

Lol okay chap. No worries.

 

[Munson]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I managed to get a set of CLs so hot that the backing plate bent inwards. No fade. They are mental on a Clio. You'll boil the fluid long before the pads give up.

 

[frayz]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

UPDATE FOR FRED

Dear Lord Clio Guru Fred,

Thou shall not ever put copper grease or any other type of anti sieze compond onto race pads again, for as long as i shall live.
Failure to do so will resort in the wrath of a severe pineapple sized "bumming" from Fred the overlord of all things Clio.

Amen


Joking aside, cheers for the pointer mate, consider it done.
No compound and no shims

 

[Fred@BTM]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

good lad!

 

[Silent_Scone]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

infact I've had EBC green stuff fal apart and fall OUT of the caliper while I've been driving. Twice.

This happened to be although not in a Clio. Never ever going to use them again

Mint inferno this

 

[mini_nick]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

I never knew this re Copper grease and pads, out of interest why is it bad using copper grease?

Cheers

Nick

 

[fmp_]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

well as a motorsport engineer, i know of no F1, GP2, GP3, FR2000, clip cup, WTCC, ASC, lambo, ferrari, GT, aston, WRC, rallyx, (i can go on, but i forget what i've worked on!)

NO CAR, regardless of make or model, you NEVER run copper grease on pads, END OF!

maybe a nissan micra with cheap £9 halfords pads, but not a performance car with performance pads! you name 1 car that leaves the factory with copper grease on the brake pads???????????????????

its not the 1990's, not needed anymore

whilst I agree they dont need it, can you explain why Fred??

Also, the list of motorsports that you have listed that dont use them, you say you could list more, but cant remember..... which F1 and WRC cars have you worked on? Must be more exciting than oil changes on clio's!!

 

[rosco454]

Re: Attention Nurburgring pilots (any track really) - Some advise required if you ple

This happened to be although not in a Clio. Never ever going to use them again

Don't want to seem like im jumping on the bandwagon but I have managed make a set of greenstuffs disintegrate as well,just through normal driving as well not going mad.

Cheers Ross.