BIGASH/FF-Racing X85 Clio Cup Racer Project

[p@blo]

I say they're better (even though they were 2008 tyres, and used) the car felt way more stable on them, but i got a fair bit of traffic during my "fast" stint on them, so not 100% on lap times, price on new ones rules them out though unfortunately, 50% more per tyre over the dunlops

I think you might be correct the actual g round the corners was very similar so a new set and setup to the car could be quicker! Maybe have a play with a new set over winter and do a proper comparison

Fair comment, mine were also a fairly worn set so coupled with my lack of talent was finding the back end a little nervy - imagine they'd be very 'interesting' in the damp.

Pressures you'd suggested seemed spot on too Fred - cheers. They warmed around 4deg like you suggested.

Be interesting to see how you get on if you dabble with a new set James.

 

[BIGASH]

Get some slicks on there!!!

Lol got to be boring and maximise what I have ! What tyres was the meg on?

Fair comment, mine were also a fairly worn set so coupled with my lack of talent was finding the back end a little nervy - imagine they'd be very 'interesting' in the damp.

Pressures you'd suggested seemed spot on too Fred - cheers. They warmed around 4deg like you suggested.

Be interesting to see how you get on if you dabble with a new set James.

Honestly the session I first did on them I was sideways everywhere I thought it was a goner every time lol!

Yes I will let you know it will be on the test day 3rd November I will try them

 

[BIGASH]

Found the gearbox problem! The bolts that hold the two parts of the casing together are really loose! Doh! Will get it over to Agency and see what the damage is from running probably very low on oil

 

[msa197]

You kept an eye on the oil level though, so should be ok? (Fingers crossed)

 

[BIGASH]

Checked it so much at Mallory and it never really dropped so didn't end up checking it at Oulton but looking under the car its lost alot of fluid

 

[sonny172cup]

Touch wood everything should be fine mate.

 

[2Damnsly Andy]

Sorry to hear about the off James but glad to hear the car is ok. I wish I had come now would have been good to have Fred out in the PH1. Is Island the fast kink leading up to Shell?

 

[Fred@BTM]

Yeah the left kink before Shell, he was nearly 20mph up on me through there - nutter!

 

[BIGASH]

Sorry to hear about the off James but glad to hear the car is ok. I wish I had come now would have been good to have Fred out in the PH1. Is Island the fast kink leading up to Shell?

Thanks Andy Yes it was a really good day! Yeah thats the one!

Yeah the left kink before Shell, he was nearly 20mph up on me through there - nutter!

I think theres a good reason for not going so quick through there lol! As I proved

 

[Meek_racing]

I'm sure if Martin Brundle were commenting on that off track moment he'd have said "Ambition over adhesion" :rasp:

 

[BIGASH]

Really productive day on the clio today! Massive thanks to Mike Woodford for coming and giving me a hand for the day he was coming upto Chips tomorrow but really kindly offered his help as soon as he heard about the off at Oulton in order to try and get me out for Donington but still came and helped and has been an awesome help/guiding hand! Got the engine and gearbox out, Thought the crank seal needed replacing but thankfully not so just the gearbox to sort It seems the bolts have become loose that holds the gearbox halves together, tightened them up and it noticeably closed up the box. The gear oil leaking has also gone into the bellhousing so contaminated the clutch. Gearbox will go to Agency this week to see the damage and get sorted.

The other odd one is play at the rear beam, basically the beam is fubared Still got to work out the cause of the issue but either way need to put a new beam on. Not sure whether to go for another set of the PMS rear beam joints or just go back to renault rear beam bushes.

I am replacing the rear disks and bearings along with changing the wheel studs and nuts all round just to be on the safe side after the impact.

Doesn't look like I can afford to fix it and also do 3 events in September so I doubt I will be doing Time Attack at Donington

 

[Tony Hunter]

I did warn you about those PM solid bushes. Hope you get it sorted.

Still coming to Cadwell Fri ?

 

[Kenny.s]

Sorry to hear about this James, but from here at least it does look too bad?

Where exactly is the play in the beam?

 

[BIGASH]

I did warn you about those PM solid bushes. Hope you get it sorted.

Still coming to Cadwell Fri ?

Yes you did but I'm certainly not blaming them for it it could be a number of things just not sure what is the cause or consequence. Thanks

Yeah course mate, I'll let you know Thursday whether I'm coming over or coming Friday morning

Sorry to hear about this James, but from here at least it does look too bad?

Where exactly is the play in the beam?

The beam itself is mint mate and I'm gutted as its such a square rear beam the problem is the rose joint casings that are in the beam are allowing the bearing to move up and down the casing which is causing the play on the drivers side. My casings are the wrong way round than Pure tell you to do it so I imagine that is what has caused the wear to the casing which has stopped it from being an interference fit.

 

[Kenny.s]

Circlip on the inside or the outside? Either way I wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference, certainly not enough to cause the housing to wear.

 

[frenchthing]

Not 100% sure how they look or fit bu I would guess the housing is pressed + welded in place??

A half decent machine shop should be able to machine the inserts out cleanly....

 

[NorthloopCup]

A half decent machine shop should be able to machine the inserts out cleanly....

This James. Let me know if you want to get it done. I'm sure martin!martin! can do it for you.

 

[frenchthing]

So the bearings are spinning in the housing??

Or

They can slide within the housing (gap between the shoulder of the housing and the circlip??

either the housing was machined oversized, the bearing was inserted without something like LOCTITE603 , or they use cheap old bearings from McGill motorsport that bind up as soon as you sneeze on them..

 

[dinger]

James,
Shame about your off, and your gearbox, oh, and your rear beam, I suppose I should look forward to all three myself,

I'm a little confused by your bearing issue, do they move side to side in the welded in casing or up and down? I really don't thing putting the casings in round the other way would make any difference as the loads would be the same either way, were the circlips fitted?

Here is a pic of mine if it helps

 

[BIGASH]

Circlip on the inside or the outside? Either way I wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference, certainly not enough to cause the housing to wear.

Circlip is on the inside of mine so the opposite to what Pure say, I had to switch them round as my beam had a raised section on the other side so they wouldn't of been level. I spoke with Nick at the time and he thought it would be fine but that is all I can think has caused the problem. (Not holding any blame on Pure at all its my own fault)

Not 100% sure how they look or fit bu I would guess the housing is pressed + welded in place??

A half decent machine shop should be able to machine the inserts out cleanly....

Yes Stu it is although they don't really need pressing in. I wondered the same but thought they wouldn't be able to deal with the bulk of the rear beam in the machine.

This James. Let me know if you want to get it done. I'm sure martin!martin! can do it for you.

Mmmm okay mate thanks i'll keep it in mind

So the bearings are spinning in the housing??

Or

They can slide within the housing (gap between the shoulder of the housing and the circlip??

either the housing was machined oversized, the bearing was inserted without something like LOCTITE603 , or they use cheap old bearings from McGill motorsport that bind up as soon as you sneeze on them..

Yes Stu they are sliding within the housing which is causing play in the rear wheel from the 9-3 position. I didn't use any locitite no I just followed the PMS instructions, I'm not sure to be fair but with it sliding around it seems to have removed material from the outside of the bearing as its showing to be down a 10th of a mm compared to the other side.

James,
Shame about your off, and your gearbox, oh, and your rear beam, I suppose I should look forward to all three myself,

I'm a little confused by your bearing issue, do they move side to side in the welded in casing or up and down? I really don't thing putting the casings in round the other way would make any difference as the loads would be the same either way, were the circlips fitted?

Here is a pic of mine if it helps

The joys of motorsport eh No I should be thankful as it could all have been alot worse!

Yes they are moving side to side in the in the casing so moving between the circlip and the shoulder of the casing. Yes circlips were fitted

 

[Tony Hunter]

I've just tried to ring you, is your phone on?

 

[BIGASH]

Sorry it's on silent mate will call you now

 

[frenchthing]

Were they a press fit when you installed them??

in my opinion there a small bearing to take the loads of the entire beam assembly..

Id definatly get an engineer/machinist to look over it rather than start again... you'd be suprised what can be saved..

 

[BIGASH]

Were they a press fit when you installed them??

in my opinion there a small bearing to take the loads of the entire beam assembly..

Id definatly get an engineer/machinist to look over it rather than start again... you'd be suprised what can be saved..

No but they were a tight fit but was possible to get them in with a hammer and socket

I'll give Nick a call tomorrow and see what he think he's always mega helpful.

Thanks for the advise Stu would be nice to be able to reuse this beam

 

[Russ Rallye]

I'd be interested to hear the results of this James as I'm a bit concerned about my rear beam now too.
​Russ

 

[BIGASH]

I'd be interested to hear the results of this James as I'm a bit concerned about my rear beam now too.
​Russ

Will let you know Russ but don't worry i'm sure it'll be something i've done

 

[Russ Rallye]

Just worried that although they were a tight fit in mine they didn't need to be pressed in.
Russ

 

[BIGASH]

​A few more pictures from the Renaultsport day at Oulton

My favourite

 

[Dano']

I actually love this car

got the pleasure to sit in it at css13 after asking ash if I can take inside photos with the reply 'yehhh jump in'

I only wanted to open the door haha

made my day tbh (sad I know)

 

[sonny172cup]

Cracking pics, car looks well planted

 

[Nafoff]

looks really well mate

 

[Fred@BTM]

Cracking pics, car looks well planted

Looks it, but is all over the shop TBH, still James threw it round in a decent time, i was a bit off though!

 

[Nafoff]

Looks it, but is all over the shop TBH, still James threw it round in a decent time, i was a bit off though!

are you second driver in this now Fred?

 

[EVOgone]

Just worried that although they were a tight fit in mine they didn't need to be pressed in.
Russ

Im concerned aswell as first drive of mine with Reigers wasnt great and rear end was very very lively. Im wondering if it's play in the PMS beam set up as it felt like it was rear wheel steering.! Geometry all OK and quite a bit of toe in and quite a soft rear end would all point to an understeering car but you can put it sideways very easily.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'm not sure solid rear beam bearings are really a great idea unless you like a really lively back end (ooh err)

 

[EVOgone]

Circlip is on the inside of mine so the opposite to what Pure say, I had to switch them round as my beam had a raised section on the other side so they wouldn't of been level. I spoke with Nick at the time and he thought it would be fine but that is all I can think has caused the problem. (Not holding any blame on Pure at all its my own fault)

Yes Stu it is although they don't really need pressing in. I wondered the same but thought they wouldn't be able to deal with the bulk of the rear beam in the machine.

Mmmm okay mate thanks i'll keep it in mind

Yes Stu they are sliding within the housing which is causing play in the rear wheel from the 9-3 position. I didn't use any locitite no I just followed the PMS instructions, I'm not sure to be fair but with it sliding around it seems to have removed material from the outside of the bearing as its showing to be down a 10th of a mm compared to the other side.

The joys of motorsport eh No I should be thankful as it could all have been alot worse!

Yes they are moving side to side in the in the casing so moving between the circlip and the shoulder of the casing. Yes circlips were fitted

So im clear is it moving up and down (so bearing diameter is smaller and the bush dia) rather than side to side moving (between the bush shoulder and the circlip)?

 

[EVOgone]

I'm not sure solid rear beam bearings are really a great idea unless you like a really lively back end (ooh err)

Rear bearing beam should make it more neutral not more lively. Std beam bush would promote a bit of dynamic toe out so lively where solid beam shouldnt.

This is the concern.

 

[NorthloopCup]

For those that have the pms rear beam kit fitted, James has spoken to nick @ pms today and on James's car it's purely looking like a complete one off. I spoke to big gash whilst he was on his lunch break today and this is the general gist of what nick told him:
1) He's never ever had an issue with the rear beam kit they offer
2) Ideally the bearing housing should be welded in to the rear beam rather than tig welded ( like James's is) as the heat transfer from mig is greater, causing the housings to shrink slightly and make the bearing an interference fit.
3) Use bearing lock to help secure the bearing in the housing (pms do this on all of their spherical conversion kits apparently), and if James fits new bearings into his rear beam now and uses bearing lock, it will be fine and shouldn't suffer from this issue again.

I'm sure James will be on later to fill in any gaps that I've missed off.

I run this kit on my track car and have done since 2010. I'm still on the original bearings supplied in the kit, and when I raised it up to check them today all was fine. I ragged it hard enough to near enough pull the car off the axle stands! Mines had quite a hard time as well tbh and seen a good 4k's worth of road mileage, over 700 miles of track work with at least 300 miles of that being covered at the nordschleife.

​Hope that helps to put people more at ease.

 

[Fred@BTM]

big gash LOL

 

[Cup_Phil]

Best nickname ever