ClioSport.net
Register a free account today to become a member!
Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Read more here.
chelsea tractors
- Thread starter benji&eka
- Start date
I feel some height envy coming on !
Most 4 x 4s are actually have a smaller footprint than some saloon cars, it is the height that makes them look larger.
Some are also more economical than a 182, and the V6 so gas guzzling arguement does not work.
Lets not also forget the large MPV,s on the road as well and try not to follow the 4 x 4 bashing like brainless sheep !
I think possibly their should be some restrictions on who can own or possibly a driving test that should be passed to drive the things. A high percentage of the drivers are women who can barely see over the steering wheel as they drive past the school with kids running across roads left right and centre. Then there is the fact more than half the owners dont drive them in a manner that a car with alot more weight, longer stopping distances and a higher centre of gravity requires. Stick to the estate cars and mpvs if you dont actually require them to get to and from work IMO. People use the "theyre safer for my kids" arguement. Well its a case of safety through superoir firepower route eh? so you and your kids are safe but when you misjudge a corner your old micra would have got round and hit a corsa with 2+ tonnes of metal its not very safe for the occupants of that car.
People use the "theyre safer for my kids" arguement. Well its a case of safety through superoir firepower route eh? so you and your kids are safe but when you misjudge a corner your old micra would have got round and hit a corsa with 2+ tonnes of metal its not very safe for the occupants of that car.
What about the idiot who runs the red light, the drunken driver, the old lady in a micra on the wring side of the road or a motorway shunt. Where would you want your kids to be in those circumstances ! If you have kids you would understand that the roads are full of idiots and the safest way to get them from a - b is something like a 4 x 4.
there are plenty of cars on the market that have very good NCAP results that dont weigh 2+ tonnes, have terrible pedestrian fatality results and take a hell of alot longer to stop. Why not protect kids in these rather than putting other peoples lives at danger by increasing the amount of damage you do in an impact to protect yourself. I also dont recall comparing 4x4 drivers to old ladies, people who have poor road awareness or are drunk, they are an increased danger due to THEM not their choice of car. Renault in particular have great NCAP results for both occupants and pedestrian safety, like i say you dont need 2 tonnes of 4x4 to protect the occupants its a totally flawed arguement.
Quote: Originally posted by pkimber on 07 February 2005
it is the height that makes them look larger.
But they are a damn site heavier, so BAN then all as far as I am concerned....
off road vehicles should be used like "Off road" vehicles, and keep them "Off Road"..... the Bigger the off roader, the smaller the brain, isnt it...lol
Simon
Freelander is a poor choice of 4 x 4 for safety as is say the Metro ( 1star )as a city car compared to the clio. X5 has 5 stars, ML has 4 stars but I suspect the larger jeeps in US do not fare well. I did some research before buying my ML and found that since it had been released only 7 people have died in one. All in the US and all were drunk drivers not wearing seatbelts. Pedestrian fatalities are at nil. There is a web site for all this.That is one safe car to be in and the reason for my choice. Not all 4 x 4 s are the same, that is where your arguement falls over.
People do not base their purchasing decsions on the safety of others should they have an accident. Never have and never will. Human nature is to think of yourself should the worst happen.
would be interesting to see the figures for that, however just because one managed it doesnt mean others can, ive driven dozens of different cars/vans/4x4s and on the whole the 4x4s required a considerably longer distance to stop from the same speed. 2+ tonnes of metal has considerably more momentum than 1/1.5 tonnes.
True, but then im sure plenty of older cars are just as bad in braking and in crashes.
Personally i think the whole 4x4 debate is given too much attention, last night i was behind a girl in her Corsa and almost went into the back of her due to her having one brakelight that barely worked, and on the A2 it was pitch black and some guy in an Astra had no lights on! Whenever i start going towards the centre of London i see loads of unroadworthy cars, too many. I wonder how many crashes the owners cause (and run away from) and why havent the Government done anything about it?
-Rob
if i wanted to go offroad or lived in an area that was very rural and requred a 4x4 i would buy one, if i lived in a town and needed to transport a family in safety and didnt need to go offroad i would buy a mpv/estate with a good NCAP rating. Its like using a sledge hammer for a job than only requires a tack hammer.
tiTTy & SV650
lol nice analogy!
Id have a land rover defender (with a snorkel and all the chrome bits) if I needed an off roader, no nonsense, no comfort! Man & machine grrrr
Each to their own, wish I could afford an X5 or a Cayenne so I could spend my money on something else! mmm porsche 911 993
Ive said this before that the arguments for and against 4wd are both flawed. I cant understand why people who buy them rarely say I bought it because I like it, rather then dress their point up in a load of old tosh about safety/practicality etc. Then the anti 4wd lobby makes comments about tiny woman drivers on the school which is puerile and diminish any other decent points they may make against them.
Personally, Id like to see them taken off the road simply because in a car to 4wd collision, I will be worse off. For that reason should we ban lorries, Transits etc? No, because the public arent buying lorries or trannies to replace their family cars, theyre buying 4wd, increasing the odds that at some point, you will get whacked by one.
as for the only seven deaths in a ML since launch - I have the highest respect for Mercedes safety (its the reason Im still here) but I find that figure unlikely.
g
[Edited by Scudetto on 07 February 2005 at 10:40am]
if i wanted to go offroad or lived in an area that was very rural and requred a 4x4 i would buy one, if i lived in a town and needed to transport a family in safety and didnt need to go offroad i would buy a mpv/estate with a good NCAP rating. Its like using a sledge hammer for a job than only requires a tack hammer.
I live in a rural village, go skiing once a year in France and have 2 kids. Had a budget of £35k, nothing else came close in terms of safety, value, practicality ,space, mpg and residuals. Not to mention extra traction of four wheel drive. No MPV or estate could do all this for me. Allroad came close but seats do not fold down.So not all 4x4 owners are the same. Maybe the owners of these chelsea tractorts use their vehicles for more than the school run as well. If you have kids then you tend to have a pretty hectic lifestyle.
im not commenting upon your personal circumstance or useage of the vehicle be it intended or otherwise. I am saying most (not all) do not require 4x4s and its primarily an issue of status/image that motivates their purchase. I know plenty of people who own 4x4s and without exception none of them use it for its supposed purpose and all could have bought an mpv/estate and it would have been more than adequate(by their own admisson in some cases) for the purpose they need.
People carriers or 4x4s...they are as bad as one another, generally driven badly and irresponsibly by people.
4x4s are especially irritating when they should be giving way, but decide that they are biggest and heaviest so the highway code stops applying.
All tail-gaters are distracting but not compared to some 2+ ton beast - This morning, like most mornings, I watched someone attempting to balance his landcruiser on some poor guys motorbike wheel..!
Why cant people have freedom of choice, like people have already stated each to their own, there are so many vans, trucks, etc that weigh more than 4x4,s and probably have much worse stopping distances. There are mpvs that take up more road and plenty of cars that have worse fuel economy but no one is trying to ban them.
Whats gonna happen when they move on to fast cars? You dont need a 2.0 litre engine in a clio, you can go too fast, that uses more fuel, and endangers peoples lifes. If they start banning 4x4 where are they gonna stop. What will be next?
As a bunch of car enthusiasts I cant help feeling we have all got to stick together on matters like this. If it starts with 4x4s you can bet your bottom dollar theyll be moving on to something else next.
Iain C
ClioSport Club Member
dont mind people having em but why i do i have to pay the same road tax as someone with an x5?
Why cant people have freedom of choice, like people have already stated each to their own, there are so many vans, trucks, etc that weigh more than 4x4,s and probably have much worse stopping distances. There are mpvs that take up more road and plenty of cars that have worse fuel economy but no one is trying to ban them.
Whats gonna happen when they move on to fast cars? You dont need a 2.0 litre engine in a clio, you can go too fast, that uses more fuel, and endangers peoples lifes. If they start banning 4x4 where are they gonna stop. What will be next?
As a bunch of car enthusiasts I cant help feeling we have all got to stick together on matters like this. If it starts with 4x4s you can bet your bottom dollar theyll be moving on to something else next.
Totally agree. Hot hatches were the hooligans a few years ago. If you had one you were labelled as an irresponsible speed demon and not just by the insurance companies. We only really need diesel corsas actually.
I didnt suggest to ban then merely restrict the numbers they can be sold in and/or make the owners take an additional driving test. Im sure owning one youll agree that its very different driving a 4x4 to a family car. Unfortunately some people who own them seem incapable of realising that fact. In some parts of the states 4x4s/SUVs/ORVs are banned from certain roads/places due to the damge they do to the roads. The UKs road network is f**ked enough already without accelerating it further needlessly.
The UKs road network is f**ked enough already without accelerating it further needlessly.
So we are on to the state of the roads now as an arguement against 4 x 4s and restricting their numbers as if they should be rationed ! That is a pitiful excuse.
A 4 x 4 does no more damage to a tarmac road than a transit van, lorry, bus etc so whats the issue !
When any vehicle goes off road they will damage the terrain, but where can you do that these days ? even this is being restricted to private roads but that is a good thing imho.
