Clio 172 phase 1 turbo

[ianpettifer]

Well the house is more important than car I guess mate, although on the other hand a car is more practical as you can sleep in your car but you cant trackday your house!

Forums can be a bad influence, lol.

Not really got any plans to drastically change it, the conversion works fantastically as it is, I just want to tidy up the steering bits with new rods and rod ends etc and probably add a turbo cooler, and get the turbo rebuilt, and thats about it really.
Have bought it more to use than to be a project, I have several of those on the go already.

Unfortunately true, even tho I'm currently not so sure. Missing boost big time!

Sweet! sounds good, not tempted by a slightly different turbo, or are you restricted by the room?
Are the company you bought it off now selling the setup as a kit? seems like a good piece of kit!

 

[welshname]

Well confused now. Didn't a different lad on here buy this car from them???

 

[Adamm.]

Well confused now. Didn't a different lad on here buy this car from them???

Yep and he sold it for something more economical.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Unfortunately true, even tho I'm currently not so sure. Missing boost big time!

Sweet! sounds good, not tempted by a slightly different turbo, or are you restricted by the room?
Are the company you bought it off now selling the setup as a kit? seems like a good piece of kit!

Not tempted by a different turbo at all mate as I have mapped other cars with the same turbo on that have done over 300bhp anyway, so I know this one is capable of that, but there is just no point in doing that without a diff really and I really dont like the heat implications of it either if I start going for more power (its on standard 197 exhaust valves etc), I think that what it has now is just a great all round package really
It is easy to keep getting tempted into more and more power and not being able to use it, I did that with my nova that ended up at best part of 600bhp after spending a fortune developing it and now ive de-specced it back down to keep costs down as I was finding the extra power simply wasnt of any use to me for the driving I do (im into trackdays not drag racing so power is a relatively small part of it) so was pointless having all the very expensive bits needed to make those sort of numbers.

Yes Mike is doing one more trial run to do the conversion using a 172 head and inlet instead of 197 as most people wont want the problems of bonnet clearance etc (mine is all cut away and still needs some little bonnet raisers to fit) and then in a few months once that has done some miles it will be something he starts to sell, altough I think he is looking to do it only as a drive in and drive out conversion as its so easy for people to buy a kit for this sort of thing and then get it horribly wrong, especially with regards to the mapping in particular.

 

[ianpettifer]

Not tempted by a different turbo at all mate as I have mapped other cars with the same turbo on that have done over 300bhp anyway, so I know this one is capable of that, but there is just no point in doing that without a diff really and I really dont like the heat implications of it either if I start going for more power (its on standard 197 exhaust valves etc), I think that what it has now is just a great all round package really
It is easy to keep getting tempted into more and more power and not being able to use it, I did that with my nova that ended up at best part of 600bhp after spending a fortune developing it and now ive de-specced it back down to keep costs down as I was finding the extra power simply wasnt of any use to me for the driving I do (im into trackdays not drag racing so power is a relatively small part of it) so was pointless having all the very expensive bits needed to make those sort of numbers.

Yes Mike is doing one more trial run to do the conversion using a 172 head and inlet instead of 197 as most people wont want the problems of bonnet clearance etc (mine is all cut away and still needs some little bonnet raisers to fit) and then in a few months once that has done some miles it will be something he starts to sell, altough I think he is looking to do it only as a drive in and drive out conversion as its so easy for people to buy a kit for this sort of thing and then get it horribly wrong, especially with regards to the mapping in particular.

Thats a fair point seeing as the car is making good reliable power, no point in chasing those pub talk figures if your happy with how the car currently drives.

The nova sounds immense, got a link for it? Theres a few vauxhall heads in my area, all c20lets in corsa bs, mk3 astras, astra van etc etc. All seem to chase high figures with standard diffs in and only drive them in a straight line. Its annoying how much they bum there cars and if isn't a vauxhall they don't wanna know. Selling the vixer went down well ha.

Who knows what the future holds but if i have some cash lying about in the future i might debate the boost route. I was building a low comp boosted 106 gti engine which i sold to buy the vxr, what a mistake that was :dapprove: . Seeing colins at FCS on sunday made that fact even worse.

ian

 

[Chip-mk1]

Thats a fair point seeing as the car is making good reliable power, no point in chasing those pub talk figures if your happy with how the car currently drives.

Between my sierra and nova they are about 1000bhp, the clio isnt ever going to be something worth boasting about the figures from, lol
FAR more interested in how it drives, and Im really happy with that, if I was going to spend anything on it then it would be a diff without a doubt, but the standard gearbox is weak too so you can end up spending a load of money several times doing that.

Hence why I never wanted a renault turbo TBH, my Mk1 I am putting a honda turbo in instead and the only reason is the gearbox is decent, otherwise I would have just boosted the williams engine or F4R'd it and boosted that.

Ive bought this car very aware that the gearbox is the limiting factor, and that is always going to be the case while I own it TBH.

The nova sounds immense, got a link for it? Theres a few vauxhall heads in my area, all c20lets in corsa bs, mk3 astras, astra van etc etc. All seem to chase high figures with standard diffs in and only drive them in a straight line. Its annoying how much they bum there cars and if isn't a vauxhall they don't wanna know. Selling the vixer went down well ha.

This is my nova:

A thread about it is here:
http://www.vauxhall-sport-forum.com/phpBB2/my-saab-powered-rwd-nova-t4877,start,60.html

Who knows what the future holds but if i have some cash lying about in the future i might debate the boost route. I was building a low comp boosted 106 gti engine which i sold to buy the vxr, what a mistake that was :dapprove: . Seeing colins at FCS on sunday made that fact even worse.

ian

The Saxo/106 option is a good one for boost, no need for a heavy 2 litre engine just to make the 250-300bhp or so that sits well for a fwd trackdaycar.

That said the thing I love about this turbo phase 1, is there is NOTHING expensive on it.
Bottom end goes? few hundred quid
Head drops a valve? few hundred quid
Turbo needs a rebuild? few hundred quid
Management explodes? Half a grand
Gearbox dies? couple hundred quid
Clutch lets go? few hundred quid
intercooler gets a stone go through it and dies? probably find a secondhand one for peanuts


Its just such a cheap thing to own longer term, so I can see us hanging onto it as a spare car just cause its immense fun and so cheap to carry on owning, thats the real winner with a clio turbo, if you want massive spec TBH you would be better off with a vauxhall engine and box or a honda one or whatever, but for a cheap and cheerful car, these are epic.

Assuming you have a decent clio already, its likely to cost sub 4K for mike to bring it upto this spec, and then as per my list above, there just isnt anything expensive on it if anything does go wrong (other than labour if you cant fix yourself)

 

[George182]

^ you make an extremely convincing case Chip!

 

[ianpettifer]

^ you make an extremely convincing case Chip!

+1
p.s the nova looks nuts!

 

[Chip-mk1]

^ you make an extremely convincing case Chip!

Ive had so many different cars now, some ITB, some turbo, some chasing big numbers, some basic spec etc, that I firmly believe if you dont want to waste endless money (been there and done that many many times!) then its a case of have a decent plan from the start of what the end point is going to be and then spec accordingly and then stick to it not keep changing your goals, thats exactly what Mike did when designing this conversion and I think the decisions he made are still valid ones now.
If like me and Mike you beleive the limits of the standard gearbox are restrictive, its then a case of having a simple, affordable and reliable route to the amount of power you are prepared to stress them with, which in mine and mikes opinion was about 250 ish lbft/bhp or so.
Without a doubt if unlike me you arent planning on hammering it relentlessly round loads and loads of tracks and just want something to occasionally blast up a dual carraigeway with to impress your mates etc then you could undoubtably get away with more power and it still not spit boxes out too often though of course.

 

[Chip-mk1]

+1
p.s the nova looks nuts!

Its a bit of a handful, this was me finishing off running the engine in at mallory (so was only just over 300bhp and resitricted revs still), although I have redesigned the suspension since so it handles a bit better now (comrpession was introducing bump steer on the old setup, I have relocated the rear tie control arms and used different moutning points on the innner and outers to combat this since) but its still much more a case of "its a laugh" than "its a serious race car"

you can see at about 40-50 seconds in what a handful it is, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S8O-Eoaprw

 

[ianpettifer]

Its a bit of a handful, this was me finishing off running the engine in at mallory (so was only just over 300bhp and resitricted revs still), although I have redesigned the suspension since so it handles a bit better now (comrpession was introducing bump steer on the old setup, I have relocated the rear tie control arms and used different moutning points on the innner and outers to combat this since) but its still much more a case of "its a laugh" than "its a serious race car"

you can see at about 40-50 seconds in what a handful it is, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S8O-Eoaprw

she's a bit nippy! haha drift on!!

 

[Paul172sport]

Ok I'm getting more tempted. Il keep eye out for the final conversion details and yes a passenger ride would be great if were both at a local meet

 

[Chip-mk1]

Where are you from Paul172Sport?

 

[Paul172sport]

Fareham. Right betweet Southampton and Portsmouth

 

[JamesT87]

Incredible work as ever Chip!

Thats impressive power in such a light car, is it still running a ph1 box? Reason im asking is im thinking of supercharging mine in the next few months and id like circa 260bhp but im very scared that the tranny isnt up to it!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Fareham. Right betweet Southampton and Portsmouth

Im sure it will pop down to the Portsmouth nandos meet at some stage

 

[Paul172sport]

Im sure it will pop down to the Portsmouth nandos meet at some stage

brilliant, pop me a PM when your coming down and il shoot along too.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Incredible work as ever Chip!

Not my work mate, I just mapped it, it was entirely a Mike Woodford spec and build.

Thats impressive power in such a light car, is it still running a ph1 box? Reason im asking is im thinking of supercharging mine in the next few months and id like circa 260bhp but im very scared that the tranny isnt up to it!

Yep its still running the original gearbox, I am fully expecting it to die at some point though, I like to do about 20 trackdays a year if possible and I drove like a bit of an animal TBH, so I really do think if I had this as my only trackday car then the gearbox would not last long term, but on the other hand, the good thing is that you dont have to rev it because it has so much upper mid range power so there is no need to get to high rpm, and Im convinced that these boxes dont like high RPM, I keep seeing them die on ITB cars more than on Turbo cars, in fact on my williams engine which is only 130lbft or so and 180bhp ish, I killed 8 boxes in 2 years.

If you are going to do a bit of spirited road driving and a few trackdays a year, I reckon it makes loads of sense, even if you had to do a gearbox once a year its not exactly a massive drama, they are readily available in good nick secondhand currently so just buy a couple when they come up at the right money and keep them at the back of the garage, thats what I do with my Mk1 that keeps munching its way through them, lol

 

[northy]

Nice lines being laid there pal

 

[Chip-mk1]

Nice lines being laid there pal

Thanks mate

 

[Tutuur]

Awesome vid mate! Epic flames out off the back
I'm still thinking of buildingmy Gtt rwd too but seeing this i'm going to have a problem in turns

Shame you're not on rtoc, i have a project of my R9 with F7R turbo at 10psi.
5 gtt box is holding it for about 3000km's now however i did manage to snap a shaft yesterday

 

[Chip-mk1]

R9 sounds good, what power did it make at 10psi? 230ish?

 

[Tutuur]

Don't know yet as it's road mapped and i haven't had it on rollers yet. I have the feeling the f7p cams are holding the power down a bit though.

It's a low cost conversion. F7r meggie bottom with skimmed pistons and f7p head.

This is a link to my youtube channel if you like some vids:
http://www.youtube.com/user/gluurekind?feature=mhee

 

[Tutuur]

Double..

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sounds like a cool car on a budget, will have a look at those vids some time, thanks for the link

 

[Tutuur]

This is how the engine's in:

And this is the car:

Sorry for hijacking the thread though

 

[Chip-mk1]

Not sure the phase 2 wheels suit it, but that engine bay is gorgeous, nice one

No worries about the hijack, im sure anyone interested in my car's turbo conversion would be interested in seeing that anyway.

 

[Tutuur]

Thanks mate, had bbs LM's in 17" 7,5j but they where way to big
Now let's get back on-topic

 

[Chip-mk1]

Indeed, this thread is about BOOST not rims, lol

 

[Tutuur]

What clutch is in the Clio?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Its a 4 paddle, I think it was a helix, its probably mentioned on the original build thread though so I will check.

Edit - Yes its a helix

 

[Tutuur]

If you ever need to replace it you could use a new 4 paddle friction plate but with Valeo 801015 pressure plate and bearing.
Much cheaper then Helix's cover and bearing and will hold upto 300bhp or something like it.

 

[Jaff.]

Love that 9!

 

[Chip-mk1]

If you ever need to replace it you could use a new 4 paddle friction plate but with Valeo 801015 pressure plate and bearing.
Much cheaper then Helix's cover and bearing and will hold upto 300bhp or something like it.

Ive heard of people having problems with the valeo one breaking up TBH so given the hassle of changing a clutch I would sooner just pay the extra and know it has the right parts.

George182 took it for a testdrive last night as he is considering an MWM turbo converison for his 182, it was the first time I have been passenger in it on the road since we were mapping it when I had my head buried in the laptop the whole time so didnt really experience it as a passenger ride, and I swear it feels even quicker from the passenger seat. Lol

 

[Tutuur]

Okey, well i haven't got any problems with it yet. So i'll just see.
The power gets used to way to soon if you're driving it yourself.

Indeed taking a passenger ride really reveals it as you don't when what is going to happen

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah, the handling seemed worse from the passenger seat too, lol

Clutch wise, a lot of it is about how you use it not just how much power you if you are very quick on the clutch it puts a lot more shock loads through the cover.

 

[Tutuur]

Well in that case mine is certainly not a track day car and i try to clutch and shift as gentle as possible to spare the box.However when sprinting to a car that's quicker or even to mine i don't care and just kick the hell out of it

 

[George182]

I can confirm that this car is hilarious! Thanks again for sparing your time for me to have a look/drive of the clio, chip.

Its just brilliant, far quicker than I expected and it handles the power much much better than I thought too!

 

[Chip-mk1]

I can confirm that this car is hilarious! Thanks again for sparing your time for me to have a look/drive of the clio, chip.

Its just brilliant, far quicker than I expected and it handles the power much much better than I thought too!

Glad you enjoyed it mate.
It really is quite surprising how well it manages to accelerate, far better than the figures make it look like it would be really.

 

[Shifty.]

Cheers for the ride tonight chip, it was ace, such smooth power delivery and very very rapid! Just makes mine feel slow now though!