182cup & 172 racecar
I've heard worse.
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BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
First off - thanks to all the above comments about the car, modifications and the engine problems we are experiencing 
Update 12 - Engine Out, phase I
Sunday morning saw Mike and I start our joint effort in removing the engine. I let Mike remove the first piece, the towing-eye:
I then had a go at cracking-off the hub nuts. I thought I would have a go at these first of all just incase I couldn't budge them much further down the line. Drivers side was OK but I managed to break a 1/2" extention piece out of an old budget toolset whilst trying to loosen the passenger side. Luckily my Halfords advanced set coped much better and i looesed the nut by 1/2 a turn.
We then started to remove the bumper and and the passenger side 10mm nut started to spin without coming out. Felt like it was starting to fight us already:dapprove:. After this bolt the rest came off quickly:
We then started to remove all the other engine bay bits'n'bobs which took a while. Too be honest I didnt quite realise how much wiring and associated sensors there are to unplug! Speaking of plugs, when we removed HT lead #4 the plug recess contained quite a lot of oil. The rocker cover surrounding this area appeared quite dry so i wonder if the oil pushed past the plug? Also, there was some oil resting between the inlet manifold and head for this cylinder:
All but one exhaust manifold nut came off OK. One would not budge but would rather round-off rather than move! Thank god it was one of the upper-bolts. We tried everything but in the end resorted to dremeling the nut. Even then the stud came out with the nut still attached
Everything is pretty much disconnected so we tried to drain the gearbox oil before moving on to removing the driveshafts. Blast! Didnt realise the gearbox sump needs an 8mm square sump tool! I drove to the local Halfords but typically they were out of stock of this part - arrrrgh!! Still, the reason i left the gearbox and shafts until the end was so we good move the car around and back in to the garage if we ran out of time - which in the end is what happened as Mike and I both had other commitments later in the afteroon.
So, not too much left to do before we wheel out the hoist for the fun and games. The dog-bone mount (and gear selector rod) has been disconnected so I think its just the two upper mounts, drive-shafts and any wiring that's still connected or in the way. It's a bit hard to see where the wiring harness goes under the exhaust manifold. Here is out is stands at the moment (BTW-the breather plate was removed to give better access to the stuck manifold nut):
Fingers crossed we will have it out next Saturday.
Thanks for looking,
Nick (and Mike)
Update 12 - Engine Out, phase I
Sunday morning saw Mike and I start our joint effort in removing the engine
. I let Mike remove the first piece, the towing-eye:I then had a go at cracking-off the hub nuts. I thought I would have a go at these first of all just incase I couldn't budge them much further down the line. Drivers side was OK but I managed to break a 1/2" extention piece out of an old budget toolset whilst trying to loosen the passenger side. Luckily my Halfords advanced set coped much better and i looesed the nut by 1/2 a turn.
We then started to remove the bumper and and the passenger side 10mm nut started to spin without coming out. Felt like it was starting to fight us already:dapprove:. After this bolt the rest came off quickly:
We then started to remove all the other engine bay bits'n'bobs which took a while. Too be honest I didnt quite realise how much wiring and associated sensors there are to unplug! Speaking of plugs, when we removed HT lead #4 the plug recess contained quite a lot of oil. The rocker cover surrounding this area appeared quite dry so i wonder if the oil pushed past the plug? Also, there was some oil resting between the inlet manifold and head for this cylinder:
All but one exhaust manifold nut came off OK. One would not budge but would rather round-off rather than move! Thank god it was one of the upper-bolts. We tried everything but in the end resorted to dremeling the nut. Even then the stud came out with the nut still attached
Everything is pretty much disconnected so we tried to drain the gearbox oil before moving on to removing the driveshafts. Blast! Didnt realise the gearbox sump needs an 8mm square sump tool! I drove to the local Halfords but typically they were out of stock of this part - arrrrgh!! Still, the reason i left the gearbox and shafts until the end was so we good move the car around and back in to the garage if we ran out of time - which in the end is what happened as Mike and I both had other commitments later in the afteroon.
So, not too much left to do before we wheel out the hoist for the fun and games. The dog-bone mount (and gear selector rod) has been disconnected so I think its just the two upper mounts, drive-shafts and any wiring that's still connected or in the way. It's a bit hard to see where the wiring harness goes under the exhaust manifold. Here is out is stands at the moment (BTW-the breather plate was removed to give better access to the stuck manifold nut):
Fingers crossed we will have it out next Saturday.
Thanks for looking,
Nick (and Mike)
RB 182
What's the plan with the engine guys?
All depends what Fred finds when he strips it. I'd quite like to push the boat out but we have a set budget and I'm moving next week so can't go silly on anything. The main aim will be to get it working efficiently again, then maybe look into cams. The eninge is/was very strong and the suspension setup now means we can push it hard, so little point in spending big money to make it a bit faster in the straights
RB 182
Gutted lads
Cheers Jonny, will keep you in mind if we do need parts to fix it. Fingers crossed it wont be a big bill.
Yeah the engine pulls even with that noise, we have gone over it many times but nothing pin points to anything specific. We knew deep down it needed a re-build but I guess Oulton was the proving point
182cup & 172 racecar
Another engine claimed by Oulton,it did ours a couple of weeks ago.Hope yours is salvageable.
RB 182
It first happened at Donington Tony, we thought it might have been a small issue so fitted the catch tank. Oulton just proved that the problem got worse
We will see what the outcome is when Fred has a ganders at it, we have all winter for the re-build so no urgent rush. It's a shame as we wanted to do a day at Bedford before the end of the year, Oulton was a cheeky trackday I squeezed in last minute.
On a good note, we took all of the firewall material out so will replace that with some proper stuff. We might also paint the block a pretty colour once it's out
We will see what the outcome is when Fred has a ganders at it, we have all winter for the re-build so no urgent rush. It's a shame as we wanted to do a day at Bedford before the end of the year, Oulton was a cheeky trackday I squeezed in last minute.
On a good note, we took all of the firewall material out so will replace that with some proper stuff. We might also paint the block a pretty colour once it's out
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Cheers Tony. I think the original problem came to light at Donington park then oil catch tank filling up combined with the horrific sound happened at Oulton. Didn't realise you have problems too? Hope you get it sorted and are back racing soon. Gotta love Oulton though - still my favourite so far.
182cup & 172 racecar
From about 13mins onwards,nasty.
Last edited by a moderator:
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Update 12a - Engine Out, phase II
Yesterday Mike and I pushed the car out of my gagrage for the 2nd stint at removing the engine. It's a good job we dont own a garage as I think we may have exceeded the book time a little with this removal. Hey ho, it's our first time at doing this anyway and would rather take it easy, photograph connections and fixing etc than rush it.
I bought an 8mm sump tool in the week so started by draining the gearbox fluid. I hate seeing oil come out that we changed less than 500 miles ago After that we got the car in the right position on the drive so when we needed to lift the engine out the hoist could be pulled back enough to clear the garage door. Then the driveshafts were removed (a lot easier than I was expecting), engine and gearbox mounts loosened off and finally the hoist wheeled in to position.
A fair bit of jiggling around later and the lot was starting to come free.
The tightest bit of the lift is getting the engine and box through the chassis legs - once past these it was quick and easy. I then lowered the hoist a little and wheeled it back inside the garage at which point Mike and I were quite relieved and pleased with ourselves. A picture was taken.
The exhaust side of the block was really oily (probably from when the oil breather hose popped off) and also had some grease from a previously broken CV boot. Looking at the exhaust ports it looks like #4 cylinder was burning slightly different than the rest.
It was then a matter of spliting the gearbox and starter motor from the engine which didnt take too long at all.
We then had a big hole in the front of the car..
..so we put the driveshafts back in and connected the lower ball joints to the wishbones - wheels back on, bumper and bonnet placed in situ and pushed it back in the garage. Almost looks like we never started...
So, I think all that remains now is for us to remove the lower inlet manifold before the engine goes off to BTM for an inspection. It's after this point (and Freds findings) that we will decide what course of action to take with regards to getting this car back on track.
Thanks for reading,
Nick (and Mike)
Yesterday Mike and I pushed the car out of my gagrage for the 2nd stint at removing the engine. It's a good job we dont own a garage as I think we may have exceeded the book time a little with this removal. Hey ho, it's our first time at doing this anyway and would rather take it easy, photograph connections and fixing etc than rush it.
I bought an 8mm sump tool in the week so started by draining the gearbox fluid. I hate seeing oil come out that we changed less than 500 miles ago
After that we got the car in the right position on the drive so when we needed to lift the engine out the hoist could be pulled back enough to clear the garage door. Then the driveshafts were removed (a lot easier than I was expecting), engine and gearbox mounts loosened off and finally the hoist wheeled in to position.A fair bit of jiggling around later and the lot was starting to come free.
The tightest bit of the lift is getting the engine and box through the chassis legs - once past these it was quick and easy. I then lowered the hoist a little and wheeled it back inside the garage at which point Mike and I were quite relieved and pleased with ourselves. A picture was taken.
The exhaust side of the block was really oily (probably from when the oil breather hose popped off) and also had some grease from a previously broken CV boot. Looking at the exhaust ports it looks like #4 cylinder was burning slightly different than the rest.
It was then a matter of spliting the gearbox and starter motor from the engine which didnt take too long at all.
We then had a big hole in the front of the car..
..so we put the driveshafts back in and connected the lower ball joints to the wishbones - wheels back on, bumper and bonnet placed in situ and pushed it back in the garage. Almost looks like we never started...
So, I think all that remains now is for us to remove the lower inlet manifold before the engine goes off to BTM for an inspection. It's after this point (and Freds findings) that we will decide what course of action to take with regards to getting this car back on track.
Thanks for reading,
Nick (and Mike)
182cup & 172 racecar
It's the 5th gear housing causes all the problems with getting it out,1," 25mm too wide,bloomin pain.
Well done for your first time though.
Well done for your first time though.
RB 182
I think getting it back in will be our biggest problem
TTRS & V50
Shame about the engine, hope it's not too costly so you can cam it
Suspension sounds c*ck on now.
Suspension sounds c*ck on now.
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Shame about the engine, hope it's not too costly so you can cam it
Suspension sounds c*ck on now.
Cheers. Will wait and see about the engine but nothing is ever that cheap sadly. I dont want to have to do this again soon so want everything sorted before it goes back in. I would prefer to over do things than cut corners etc. Cams would be nice but will see what the outcome is first.
As for suspension - yep, it handles so nicely now. Itching to get out on track and enjoy it again.
BTW - anyone know how much a F4R weighs minus the 'box? I was thinking about sneaking it in the boot of my wifes Golf whilst she wasnt looking so I can deliver it to Fred this week. I dont think they're that heavy as Mike and I managed to lift it around (in a fashion)
RB 182
Spoken like a true Jippo x
x
Evo 5 RS
Awesome car, hope you get it sorted
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Cheers Fred - only 90-95 kgs. Best get back down the gym again as it feels a bit heavier than that
Regarding the bottom end. Think I knew that in the back of my mind. If the blocks a gonna might turn it into a coffee table
. Probably pop it up at the weekend so chat then
RB 182
If you wanna do that Nick, can get a glass or St/st table top etched at work
Evo 5 RS
Just do what I did when I sent it to him and make it up, I put 50kg lol
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
UPDATE #13 - Engine stripdown
So now that the engine's out it needs to be inspected to see whats required to fix it.....
I delivered the engine to BTM Performance complete with a little bit of blood from my mates hand, which he cut when we lifted it into the boot of the Golf (Oops). I would say not much more than 30 minutes after my arrival Fred had the majority of the engine stripped down! This was rather unexpected as I thought I would just drop it off, leave and get a phone call whenever Fred had some news. This was great as I was was eager to see what had gone wrong and also see what an F4R was like inside
First issue we saw was that the cambelt had next to no tension in it! Not good but lucky that the belt was still in the right place I suppose. The rocker cover came off and the cams look fine and the head is OK too, which is really good news as I will explain a little later. Head off next and the top of the pistons look OK but most of the bores have some markings. Sump off, after one troublesome bolt refused to undo, and the crank feels tight (as in not free to spin). Big ends off and the bearings of all 4 rods are knackered with heavy scoring to each - that produced the knocking sound in the video earlier in the thread! The main bearings looked OK but even with the rods disconnected the crank was so tight you couldn't turn it with your hands! Then as Fred inspected piston number 4 something fell on the floor - part of the piston no less (next to the oil ring land - if I understand correct?). It all hints towards oil pressure failure - maybe a broken pump or a crank pulley that had turned on the crank.
Some pictures during the process-
Evidence of prior rebuild(blueprint and balance according to receipts) - numbered rods:
Photo of failed piston - spot the missing piece:
Far from ideal then! So plan of action is to scrap the bottom end and start over. After the pistons were removed the block had bad marks in it and the crank, although relatively unmarked, is a bit of a risk with it not spinning freely. Fred is going to rebuild a known good bottom end - Hone block, new rings, bearings, seals, squirters etc. This will then be mated to our exising cylinder head, new cambelt of course and new clutch as its daft not to replace it at the same time. This wont be ready for somewhile as Mike and I are in no rush and have no intention to track the car until the new year. There is the option to put forged rods and hi-comp pistons in it, but that all boils down to cost - Mike and I will have to make a decision on that one.
There was some good news though! A previous owner had documented that the head had had some work carried out on it. When I removed the lower inlet I was half expecting to see standard ports as you can never really know what you have until you see it etc. I was please to find that the ports have seen some work
Picture of standard 1*2, CNC finished, head - picture pinched from Cup_Phils project:
Our head - no machine marks present:
Looks like it was a half decent, valves out job, too - note cut back valve guides:
Maybe this is why the engine (prior to failure) felt strong!?
I also managed to retreive the rods and pistons. These will be cleaned up and become paper weights for both of us.
Although the car is without an engine that wont stop Mike and I working on it over the winter as we can turn our attention to other little jobs on the car, readying it for a busy time on track next year (fingers crossed).
Thanks for reading,
Nick
So now that the engine's out it needs to be inspected to see whats required to fix it.....
I delivered the engine to BTM Performance complete with a little bit of blood from my mates hand, which he cut when we lifted it into the boot of the Golf (Oops). I would say not much more than 30 minutes after my arrival Fred had the majority of the engine stripped down! This was rather unexpected as I thought I would just drop it off, leave and get a phone call whenever Fred had some news. This was great as I was was eager to see what had gone wrong and also see what an F4R was like inside
First issue we saw was that the cambelt had next to no tension in it! Not good but lucky that the belt was still in the right place I suppose. The rocker cover came off and the cams look fine and the head is OK too, which is really good news as I will explain a little later. Head off next and the top of the pistons look OK but most of the bores have some markings. Sump off, after one troublesome bolt refused to undo, and the crank feels tight (as in not free to spin). Big ends off and the bearings of all 4 rods are knackered with heavy scoring to each - that produced the knocking sound in the video earlier in the thread! The main bearings looked OK but even with the rods disconnected the crank was so tight you couldn't turn it with your hands! Then as Fred inspected piston number 4 something fell on the floor - part of the piston no less (next to the oil ring land - if I understand correct?). It all hints towards oil pressure failure - maybe a broken pump or a crank pulley that had turned on the crank.
Some pictures during the process-
Evidence of prior rebuild(blueprint and balance according to receipts) - numbered rods:
Photo of failed piston - spot the missing piece:
Far from ideal then! So plan of action is to scrap the bottom end and start over. After the pistons were removed the block had bad marks in it and the crank, although relatively unmarked, is a bit of a risk with it not spinning freely. Fred is going to rebuild a known good bottom end - Hone block, new rings, bearings, seals, squirters etc. This will then be mated to our exising cylinder head, new cambelt of course and new clutch as its daft not to replace it at the same time. This wont be ready for somewhile as Mike and I are in no rush and have no intention to track the car until the new year. There is the option to put forged rods and hi-comp pistons in it, but that all boils down to cost - Mike and I will have to make a decision on that one.
There was some good news though! A previous owner had documented that the head had had some work carried out on it. When I removed the lower inlet I was half expecting to see standard ports as you can never really know what you have until you see it etc. I was please to find that the ports have seen some work
Picture of standard 1*2, CNC finished, head - picture pinched from Cup_Phils project:
Our head - no machine marks present:
Looks like it was a half decent, valves out job, too - note cut back valve guides:
Maybe this is why the engine (prior to failure) felt strong!?
I also managed to retreive the rods and pistons. These will be cleaned up and become paper weights for both of us.
Although the car is without an engine that wont stop Mike and I working on it over the winter as we can turn our attention to other little jobs on the car, readying it for a busy time on track next year (fingers crossed).
Thanks for reading,
Nick
RB 182
Big thanks to Fred and scruffy hair for looking at it straight away The paper weights will be in the sale section very soon... joke
The paper weights will be in the sale section very soon... joke
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Alright guys, glad to hear she is on the mend now, and looking forward to seeing the final result
Cheers Matt - cannot wait to get it back out on track too!
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
UPDATE #14 - A little bit of R&D
A couple of weeks ago I had a PM drop in to my inbox from Andy Cooke. Andy had read our project thread and kindly asked if Mike and I were interested in measuring the flow capabilities of our "port and polished" cylinder head. Of course we were. Andy has built and raced, with sucess, a R5 GTT in a hillclimb championship and has bench tested all manner of parts previously.
Yesterday we visited Andy's place and spent a few hours trying out all sorts of things on his flow bench. In the past I have read a little bit about porting cylinder heads and how the flow can be measured on a bench but I have never physically done anything so the chance to see what goes on was of interest. We took along the cylinder head, lower inlet manifold and uppler plenum to measure.
The head, by itself, was measured first - we would gradually add the lower and upper inlets during the tests. Andy had a quick look at the inlet ports and thought that they generally had been polished but not really been altered in shape by any great margin. 2 inlet valve springs were swapped out for lighter units, to aid our ability in applying varying levels of valve lift. The valves themselves were standard two pieces jobs with no work done to the valves themselves. Also the cylinder head chambers were standard.
As it turned out Andy's initial thoughts were correct. Our head does flow more than a standard CNC finished head, but nothing too spectacular. Below is a graph comparing a standard head against ours. The x-axis represents valve lift - for reference a standard 172 inlet cam provides 10.8mm of max. lift:
Even though the improvement isnt massive as with everything - every little helps. If you saw what a Guy Croft head can produce on this bench there is loads left to be done on ours!
Next up was the head combined with the matched RS lower inlet. Andy assesed the lower inlet and thought the matching looked very well done. Its funny, the upper face that bolts to the upper plenum hasnt had too much done, it's all in the lower half; where the inlet matches to the head ports. I would say that the work has been done from the injector boss downwards.
Pic of the head and lower RS on the bench:
Results comparing std head and std RS lower V our head and matched RS lower:
Its hard to see but our matched lower RS inlet is only affecting the CFM (Cubic Feet/Minute) results by 3 CFM between 6 and 10mm of valve lift - thats pretty good!
We then bolted the upper plenum on and took one reading at 12mm valve lift (an extreme). We only took one measurement because the bolts used to apply the valve lift were hidden by the upper plenum. As we only have one result we cannot plot a line graph. However this is the result at 12mm lift:
Head (bare) = 126.8
Head + matched RS = 122.2
Head + matched RS + matched plenum = 112.5
Comparing our upper to a one that Andy has previously measured it looks like we could do a bit more port work on the upper/lower face. We will do this before the engine gets built. I think its fair to say that the upper plenum is the bottle neck when trying to acheive good flow rates. To back this theory up we then bolted on our throttle body held in the WOT position. To our suprise the flow rates were identical to the results without the throttle body. This was worth doing as Mike and I were thinking about boring the TB +3mm and making a larger butterfly valve (knife edged) and spindle for it. Glad we didnt now! I had heard and read previously that the standard TB can flow enough - I think the standard TB is used on the super1600 race cars and they produce good power.
So why is the upper plenum affecting flow rates so much? Queue a little experiment Andy had previously cut a phase 2 upper plenum in half, see pic below:
We bolted this to our lower inlet and measured the flow rate. No change to the lower flow rate at all! - the upper "trumpets" do not restrict air flow. We know the throttle body doesnt reduce air flow either so that only leaves the directiion of flow change within the plenum - afterall the air is having to tranistion a 90 degree corner. Maybe a revised upper plenum could provide a useful gain?
Quick vid to show turbulence in upper plenum:
Probably my geekiest post ever, but massive thanks from Mike and I to Andy for giving up his Saturday morning
Thanks,
Nick (and Mike)
A couple of weeks ago I had a PM drop in to my inbox from Andy Cooke. Andy had read our project thread and kindly asked if Mike and I were interested in measuring the flow capabilities of our "port and polished" cylinder head. Of course we were
. Andy has built and raced, with sucess, a R5 GTT in a hillclimb championship and has bench tested all manner of parts previously.Yesterday we visited Andy's place and spent a few hours trying out all sorts of things on his flow bench. In the past I have read a little bit about porting cylinder heads and how the flow can be measured on a bench but I have never physically done anything so the chance to see what goes on was of interest. We took along the cylinder head, lower inlet manifold and uppler plenum to measure.
The head, by itself, was measured first - we would gradually add the lower and upper inlets during the tests. Andy had a quick look at the inlet ports and thought that they generally had been polished but not really been altered in shape by any great margin. 2 inlet valve springs were swapped out for lighter units, to aid our ability in applying varying levels of valve lift. The valves themselves were standard two pieces jobs with no work done to the valves themselves. Also the cylinder head chambers were standard.
As it turned out Andy's initial thoughts were correct. Our head does flow more than a standard CNC finished head, but nothing too spectacular. Below is a graph comparing a standard head against ours. The x-axis represents valve lift - for reference a standard 172 inlet cam provides 10.8mm of max. lift:
Even though the improvement isnt massive as with everything - every little helps
. If you saw what a Guy Croft head can produce on this bench there is loads left to be done on ours!Next up was the head combined with the matched RS lower inlet. Andy assesed the lower inlet and thought the matching looked very well done. Its funny, the upper face that bolts to the upper plenum hasnt had too much done, it's all in the lower half; where the inlet matches to the head ports. I would say that the work has been done from the injector boss downwards.
Pic of the head and lower RS on the bench:
Results comparing std head and std RS lower V our head and matched RS lower:
Its hard to see but our matched lower RS inlet is only affecting the CFM (Cubic Feet/Minute) results by 3 CFM between 6 and 10mm of valve lift - thats pretty good!
We then bolted the upper plenum on and took one reading at 12mm valve lift (an extreme). We only took one measurement because the bolts used to apply the valve lift were hidden by the upper plenum. As we only have one result we cannot plot a line graph. However this is the result at 12mm lift:
Head (bare) = 126.8
Head + matched RS = 122.2
Head + matched RS + matched plenum = 112.5
Comparing our upper to a one that Andy has previously measured it looks like we could do a bit more port work on the upper/lower face. We will do this before the engine gets built. I think its fair to say that the upper plenum is the bottle neck when trying to acheive good flow rates. To back this theory up we then bolted on our throttle body held in the WOT position. To our suprise the flow rates were identical to the results without the throttle body. This was worth doing as Mike and I were thinking about boring the TB +3mm and making a larger butterfly valve (knife edged) and spindle for it. Glad we didnt now! I had heard and read previously that the standard TB can flow enough - I think the standard TB is used on the super1600 race cars and they produce good power.
So why is the upper plenum affecting flow rates so much? Queue a little experiment
Andy had previously cut a phase 2 upper plenum in half, see pic below:We bolted this to our lower inlet and measured the flow rate. No change to the lower flow rate at all! - the upper "trumpets" do not restrict air flow. We know the throttle body doesnt reduce air flow either so that only leaves the directiion of flow change within the plenum - afterall the air is having to tranistion a 90 degree corner. Maybe a revised upper plenum could provide a useful gain?
Quick vid to show turbulence in upper plenum:
Probably my geekiest post ever, but massive thanks from Mike and I to Andy for giving up his Saturday morning
Thanks,
Nick (and Mike)
Last edited by a moderator:
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Nice work with the flow bench testing!! I'll be having my head with the 197 inlet flow bench tested soon so it will be nice to have the graphs you posted as a comparison.
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
Excellent! We were talking about 197 inlets yesterday. Be interested to hear you results. Have you had any head work carried out?
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Yes mate a lot of headwork has been carried out. There's a lot of work involved just in getting the ports to match up. It looks like it should offer a decent performance increase if combined with cams and raised compression though.
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
OK - will definately keep an eye out for your results. FYI - I just had a quick search for 197 inlets installed in a 1*2 and didnt find alot. However, I have just seen the design of the 197 upper inlet and the position of the TB looks like it could offer quite an improvement! Keep us posted on your progess
that was all at 10mm
I hope you had a much fun as the shoppers, it was certainly cheaper fun...
you need to be careful comparing flow bench results between different benches, it's useful to have a standard head to compare with.
eg, my standard result is much like this one: http://www.cncheads.co.uk/Renault_clio172.html
BMW 330ci sp/ 172Cup
that was all at 10mm
I hope you had a much fun as the shoppers, it was certainly cheaper fun...
When I was writing this up I originally put 10mm but then looked at the data and changed it to 12mm lift. Must have had a moment of madness
thanks again!
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
What flow bench do you use mate? Also whereabouts are you based? I'd be interested in bringing the modified head of mine along with inlet to be tested if your not far away.
